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  1. #1

    Where are we going to stand in Raids 5.4?

    I was wondering how ur dps is going to look in 5.4?

    Havent really read anything about it yet, but we are atm doing Lei shen HC and i have really hard keeping up with the other dps, only one i beat is DK's, Shadowpriests and Retridin...

    And yes i do play my class to well, so its not about that.

    is this going to improve in 5.4?

  2. #2
    Try reading through some of the post on this forum. Short answer is nobody knows yet.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliria View Post
    Try reading through some of the post on this forum. Short answer is nobody knows yet.

    this .

    Balancing is not finish we will maybe see big buff for meeles but imom we just can wait.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tgee View Post
    Where are we going to stand in Raids 5.4?
    Behind the boss!

    I think it is difficult to tell since most top end raiders will be at 100% BT crit% so it changes the dynamic of fury a bit with near 100% enrage uptime. It starts to increase the value of mastery compared to crit at that point and I haven't reviewed the sims yet to know how much. And there are still more iterations of PTR to come. One thing is for sure, with 100% BT crit% and 100% enrage uptime, fury skill cap will come down a bit.

  5. #5
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    In Melee range! :P had to!

    To be honest who knows really... the sims say one thing but there was allot of changes to allot of classes. Should be interesting for the first month or so and then we will see the trend!

  6. #6
    Searching for a new guild because it seems my current guild hit the fan and was spread out on different servers....

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Lotharfox's Avatar
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    I'll probably stand in the fire. I'm a tank, i can take it.
    "Warrior tanks in particular can often be big control freaks." from Dawn Moore's 'A Priest's Guide to Class Romance'
    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/02/14/sp...nce/#continued

  8. #8
    Arms, currently, is going to be the go to spec for any AOE fight. Fury single target is pretty decent so far.

  9. #9
    pretty much arms for cleave/aoe fury for single target but the value of mass cleave is only on a few fights so Id imagine eventually we'd jsut be fury on every as its aoe is still decent. But they havent finished balancing so we may see arms aoe nerf/fury buffs or even arms single target buffs which could change everything

  10. #10
    The real question is - does it matter for your Guild's level of progression?

    For most people, they'll be right where they always are. In the raid, enjoying the game. Or on the forums pretending that the 5% difference in DPS is the reason they're wiping to mechanics at 50%.

  11. #11
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    The real question is - does it matter for your Guild's level of progression?

    For most people, they'll be right where they always are. In the raid, enjoying the game. Or on the forums pretending that the 5% difference in DPS is the reason they're wiping to mechanics at 50%.
    I hate this statement. Mechanics killed us sub 3% on lei shen for over a week. If we had a few people doing 5% more DPS, the mechanics wouldn't have killed us. I remember a .7% wipe specifically.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    I hate this statement. Mechanics killed us sub 3% on lei shen for over a week. If we had a few people doing 5% more DPS, the mechanics wouldn't have killed us. I remember a .7% wipe specifically.
    The situation you described is 49.3% different than the example I provided. You'd hate the statement less if you took a moment to realize it's nowhere near the situation you were in.

    And are you talking about Heroic Lei Shen? Did you read what I posted and do you comprehend the gigantic difference in target audiences?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    The real question is - does it matter for your Guild's level of progression?

    For most people, they'll be right where they always are. In the raid, enjoying the game. Or on the forums pretending that the 5% difference in DPS is the reason they're wiping to mechanics at 50%.
    If there's only a 5% diff in dps between melees next patch i will be astonished.

    I'm on a fairly casual 25m guild that only was 9/13 on July 1st when we stopped raiding till summer ends, i've played arms/prot since i leveled my warrior on late BC and i've never felt more frustrated than this tier, when some spec feels that passing on every HC drop it's better for the team someone at Blizz should be yelled at.

    There's still 2 weeks before patch hits and lots of things could change before that, but until today Blizz didn't fix the main problem with warriors this xpax, we scale worst than everyone else and they tune damage in something like lfr/flex gear, when you add 30-40 ilvls worth of stats to that everyone is ahead of us.

    I'm not asking to be #1 dps or even #1 melee, but i think that outdpsing a rogue should be possible if playing better than him and this patch it's not possible even if the assa. rogue forgets to apply rupture 50% of the time.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    I hate this statement. Mechanics killed us sub 3% on lei shen for over a week. If we had a few people doing 5% more DPS, the
    mechanics wouldn't have killed us. I remember a .7% wipe specifically.
    I hate this statement though. It's true enough in a sense but the prime difference is that one you have control over and one you do not. If the whole raid was prepared for and doing the mechanics correctly; there would be no issue. Remember the gear levels the fights were tuned for. You could just as easily argue that if Rogues did 5% more damage that those mechanics wouldn't have killed you, or if they did 5% less damage they would have killed you at 6%.

    It's not an invalid argument, its just a slippery slope to start going down.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabito View Post
    If there's only a 5% diff in dps between melees next patch i will be astonished.

    I'm on a fairly casual 25m guild that only was 9/13 on July 1st when we stopped raiding till summer ends, i've played arms/prot since i leveled my warrior on late BC and i've never felt more frustrated than this tier, when some spec feels that passing on every HC drop it's better for the team someone at Blizz should be yelled at.

    There's still 2 weeks before patch hits and lots of things could change before that, but until today Blizz didn't fix the main problem with warriors this xpax, we scale worst than everyone else and they tune damage in something like lfr/flex gear, when you add 30-40 ilvls worth of stats to that everyone is ahead of us.

    I'm not asking to be #1 dps or even #1 melee, but i think that outdpsing a rogue should be possible if playing better than him and this patch it's not possible even if the assa. rogue forgets to apply rupture 50% of the time.
    You play in a casually serious guild and passed on Heroic loot for what reason? That's not a class issue, that's just bad decision-making on your part. You not taking gear in a fair manner that would have improved your character isn't doing anyone favors, it's just being a gump. ;\

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabito View Post
    i've played arms/prot since i leveled my warrior on late BC and i've never felt more frustrated than this tier
    Playing arms is prolly a part of your issue.. Arms is the worst spec in the game right now. Arms do scale freaking horrible, fury on the other hand is not so bad!

  17. #17
    All information here is relatively invalid for the time being

    We haven't yet had the 5.4 number pass which is the big list of class changes that attempts to balance all the specs by dealing with abilities and scaling in depth. Changes up til now are just little tests for blizzards benefit.

    I imagine things will stay the same as current PTR as we are by no means in a bad place. As I've been assured by friends in top guilds.
    The issue is if we aren't top everyone complains we're bottom, so nobody actually knows.

    I haven't even started testing specs on the ptr, no point til the number pass comes. A day or so after the build goes live (possibly the next build) I'll come back with a real response. For now ignore people.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    You play in a casually serious guild and passed on Heroic loot for what reason? That's not a class issue, that's just bad decision-making on your part. You not taking gear in a fair manner that would have improved your character isn't doing anyone favors, it's just being a gump. ;\
    How is that not a class issue? I certainly knew for the entire tier that every piece of gear would be better on a fury/dk/retri, rolling on a piece of gear for the sake of improving my iLvl wouldn't benefit me nor the group, i'm surely biased, but i see it as a pretty good decision-making when the goal isn't showing how big my e-peen is on Shrine of Two Moons.

    Playing arms is prolly a part of your issue.. Arms is the worst spec in the game right now. Arms do scale freaking horrible, fury on the other hand is not so bad!
    When the Blizzard motto "Bring the player, not the class" has changed to "Bring the player, not the class, unless it's arms, fuck arms"?

    Anyway that doesn't change the abysmal scaling for both specs and buffing DW won't solve it, Arms would be pretty good the first 1-2 weeks (as it was starting ToT on Horridon, Coundil, Tortos, and even early this xpac on Stone Guard/Elegon/Garalon), once your group has a good amount of "new tier" gear fury becomes the only choice, even then it's a pretty bad choice since every other melee scales better with gear than fury.

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jotabito View Post
    When the Blizzard motto "Bring the player, not the class" has changed to "Bring the player, not the class, unless it's arms, fuck arms"?

    Anyway that doesn't change the abysmal scaling for both specs and buffing DW won't solve it, Arms would be pretty good the first 1-2 weeks (as it was starting ToT on Horridon, Coundil, Tortos, and even early this xpac on Stone Guard/Elegon/Garalon), once your group has a good amount of "new tier" gear fury becomes the only choice, even then it's a pretty bad choice since every other melee scales better with gear than fury.
    I feel like I need to point out here that Arms is not a class. If that was what was meant, then non tanking Warriors should be fine playing Prot and all Rogues should be fine playing Sub.

    Despite that; "bring the player not the class" was their catch phrase for homogenizing buffs. It's prob the biggest/most often quoted Blizzard themed joke that gets said in my guild (and I reckon most), next to "Snails that drop Turtle meat" and "don't have the technology to do that."

    Expanding on your next point: Don't even kid yourself, Arms has always been complete garbage this Expansion.
    Stone Guard: Arms was only good because of how bad Fury was at entry level gear, even then the gap was small by the time people cleared MSV.
    I don't know why anyone would use Arms on Elegon?
    Garalon: Arms was only good because of a bug in the way Garalon's weakness buff worked. As soon as that was fixed, Arms was dead.
    As for this tier;
    I don't know anyone who took Arms over Fury for serious Progression ToT. Maybe Tortos, but I can't say much because I, along with many other guilds, used the kite strat. Same for Council; I don't know anyone who actually used a stack and cleave strat on that fight during progression.

    By keeping yourself playing Arms, YOU are holding your group/guild back. Yes Blizzard made the spec trash but you have options and you choose not to take them. If I was your raid leader in any sort of serious raiding environment, you would be benched.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabito View Post
    How is that not a class issue? I certainly knew for the entire tier that every piece of gear would be better on a fury/dk/retri, rolling on a piece of gear for the sake of improving my iLvl wouldn't benefit me nor the group, i'm surely biased, but i see it as a pretty good decision-making when the goal isn't showing how big my e-peen is on Shrine of Two Moons.



    When the Blizzard motto "Bring the player, not the class" has changed to "Bring the player, not the class, unless it's arms, fuck arms"?

    Anyway that doesn't change the abysmal scaling for both specs and buffing DW won't solve it, Arms would be pretty good the first 1-2 weeks (as it was starting ToT on Horridon, Coundil, Tortos, and even early this xpac on Stone Guard/Elegon/Garalon), once your group has a good amount of "new tier" gear fury becomes the only choice, even then it's a pretty bad choice since every other melee scales better with gear than fury.
    Yeah, Im sorry, but this honestly looks more like a player issue than
    anything. Warriors (fury) scales pretty decently. And passing on gear is just silly unless it's a BiS item for another or if it's BiS for u.

    And I don't understand the issue? If you REALLY wanted to do good dps u'd go fury and if ur guild allows u to stay arms they really can't take raiding very seriously.

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