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  1. #1

    Why MoP's PvE endgame can't keep casual players interested.

    I'm going to very quickly sum up why MoP's PvE endgame is unable to keep casual players commited to the game:

    - There is a lack of challenge
    - There is no real sense of character progression
    - There isn't a proper system in place that rewards attaining better results or putting in more effort


    If Blizzard wishes to fix their problem of 'lack of commitment from casual players' then above are, in my opinion, the three main obstacles they need to overcome and find solutions for. Lack of commitment from a major part of the playerbase is perhaps one of the biggest flaws of Blizzard in the history of their game design, considering Blizzard games always used to be highly addictive and fun. But apparently Blizzard seems unable to find the right game design formula that would make casual endgame addictive... and fun.
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  2. #2
    I was going to make a post, but then I saw your signature and avatar and I can't stop laughing.
    Last edited by JimPaladin; 2013-08-27 at 06:38 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    I was going to make a post, but then I seen your signature and avatar and I can't stop laughing.
    he pities you for your shame

    casuals didn't quit, that's what is left these days, casuals

  4. #4
    Field Marshal dubwise's Avatar
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    - There is a lack of challenge
    Hate to be that guy, but are you 13/13h? Dark Animus and Lei Shen are both particularly heavy imo

    - There is no real sense of character progression
    Because having an expansion long legendary quest that anyone can complete doesn't create character progression? Ilvl's have jumped a lot creating a huge disparity in numbers, which is also 'sense of progression'. I have a few cool meta mounts, titles, and cutting edge feats of str and those feel like progression to me. I got a bunch of cool vanity items which feels progressive to me.

    - There isn't a proper system in place that rewards attaining better results or putting in more effort
    Everything I said just above here applies as well as brawler's guild. I do think pvp should have more cosmetic rewards and stuff like that but I remember blizz saying they are going to address that. (not a pvper just throwin it out there)

    all in all idk what the prob is

  5. #5
    Hmmm what do you define as casual, lfr only, with dabbling in normal modes, character progression is tough imagine if you had to get gear from vaults, then heart of fear, then terrace of endless spring, then throne of thunder,and then you could do siege of ogrimar, and what do you define as reward, better/more gear, mounts, vannity item, or titles

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Define casual players.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    - There is a lack of challenge
    - There is no real sense of character progression
    - There isn't a proper system in place that rewards attaining better results or putting in more effort
    Are you serious?

    1) So every casual is running around with 13/13H progression? You can't just avoid entire parts of the game and then claim there is no challenge.
    2) Legendary quest line? Titles? Mounts/Pets? Achievements? Gear? Clearing 12/12 or 13/13H? All types of character progression...
    3) Normals? Heroics? Brawler's Guild? There's a huge system in place for varying levels of skill and time commitment.
    Last edited by tyrindor; 2013-08-27 at 06:34 AM.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Tarx's Avatar
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    I prefer ICC style raids. Simple mechanics with requirements of gear and experience of the fight and good timing.

  9. #9
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    OP doesn't know what casual means.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Zenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    I was going to make a post, but then I seen your signature and avatar and I can't stop laughing.
    I giggled as well.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    casual endgame
    See here's your problem. The endgame isn't really casual. In WoW the endgame is raiding (not LFR). I see this as the classic:

    -Refuse to do all but certain kinds of content
    -Complain there's no content

    or

    -Refuse to do challenging content
    -Complain that content isn't challenging
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dubwise View Post
    - There is a lack of challenge
    Hate to be that guy, but are you 13/13h? Dark Animus and Lei Shen are both particularly heavy imo
    Getting access to that content, Heroic mode or even Normal implies that you can commit to a raidshedule. A large majority of casuals will not want to commit to a raidshedule. If I could commit to a raidsheduled I'd not consider myself casual anymore.

    - There is no real sense of character progression
    Because having an expansion long legendary quest that anyone can complete doesn't create character progression? Ilvl's have jumped a lot creating a huge disparity in numbers, which is also 'sense of progression'. I have a few cool meta mounts, titles, and cutting edge feats of str and those feel like progression to me. I got a bunch of cool vanity items which feels progressive to me.
    I guess I'm not someone that gets swayed by cosmetics because I understand that anything cosmetic ends up to collect cobwebs in the bank a few weeks later.
    For me progress is tied in with unlocking access to new content, new challenges, being made to realize you're climbing a ladder of sorts and that you're being rewarded on the way for the fact you're moving up through the content. LFR kinda just throws all the relevant (non-cosmetic) rewards at you the moment it opens up.

    - There isn't a proper system in place that rewards attaining better results or putting in more effort
    Everything I said just above here applies as well as brawler's guild. I do think pvp should have more cosmetic rewards and stuff like that but I remember blizz saying they are going to address that. (not a pvper just throwin it out there)

    all in all idk what the prob is

    The problem? That I feel that even if I've only been subscribed for maximum up to two months this expansion, much like most of my circle of 'casual friends who play WoW', and still feel as if I've seen everything there is worth seeing or playing in the game. I've collected loot multiple times from every single LFR raidboss this expansion, got to see everything and all it took was being subscribed for a month or two over the course of a year. I'm quite certain that is a problem and considering Blizzard literally pointed out the same in their quarterly reports... it definately seems one of the main problems Blizzard became aware of too.
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  13. #13
    160+ IQ? I highly doubt that if this is what you post. To add to what other people have already said, if you would have played the game, you would have known that all your points are false. Just a friendly advice, next time, when you try to criticize something, its always a good idea to have evidence that support your claim. Because if you don't have anything, you just come up as a troll.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Getting access to that content, Heroic mode or even Normal implies that you can commit to a raidshedule. A large majority of casuals will not want to commit to a raidshedule. If I could commit to a raidsheduled I'd not consider myself casual anymore.
    So.. You want a challenge.
    And you want progression
    And effort.
    Without having specified times for organized group things, aka raids aka PROGRESSION AND CHALLENGE.
    The system is in for put more effort get better things
    LFR (Not much / any effort) - Normal (A reasonable amt of effort, depends) - Heroic (Lots more effort, hardest heroic usually requires a lot.)
    i cant fully take this seriously

  15. #15
    Field Marshal dubwise's Avatar
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    For me progress is tied in with unlocking access to new content, new challenges, being made to realize you're climbing a ladder of sorts and that you're being rewarded on the way for the fact you're moving up through the content. LFR kinda just throws all the relevant (non-cosmetic) rewards at you the moment it opens up.
    The tiers have been linear which imo means if you were subbed @ the beginning of t14 you would've gotten what you really seem to want.

    Then again, you seem pretty rediculous after reading your sig. If you have time to do lfr you'd have time to pug some normals but I'd be willing to be you didn't even try because you feel so entitled that it probably shouldn't take any extra effort to get these rewards you desire. TBH you seem like a spoiled child complaining about your own birthday party. Maybe you should try to appreciate the things the game does offer. Have you tried any other mmo's lately? IMO WoW blows everything else away.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    In fact casual players are probably more likely to opt out of hard content for which rewards will be quickly replaced. (Source)

    Example: why would blizzard want to decasualize the game if most of its players play it casually?
    Non-casual gamers are more likely to stick with us. (Source)

    (Curiosity): does Blizzard have a working definition of “casual”? If so, is it more about what you do, or how much you play?
    We don't really. Casual is too broad a word. We try to have content aimed at a wide variety of players. (Source)
    I just see a casual gamer as someone who is playing "casually", means on occassion.
    There are also very experienced and skilled players who play only rarely. "Casual" doesn't really describe them. (Source)
    Likewise, we have players who play nearly every night, but only to RP and avoid raids or BGs. Not sure they are "casual." (Source)
    It's just one of those words that isn't precise enough to do the job. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  17. #17
    ITT Someone complaining they can't get higher loot from LFR.

    I'll sum up your entire post since my IQ is actually 170+ and I am a trained underwater whale rider scientist. My work usually consists of breeding sharks with lazer beams on their heads for evil genius'.

    "Guys I'm bored because I am a casual and have already done LFR, I want better loot but there is NOWHERE that drops it.. whaa.. what.. Heroic modes?.. Nah I don't want to do them because I am a casual"

  18. #18
    I don´t know OP. I think you are a few points short of that 160.

    MoP has a ton of stuff that challenges casuals. Even questing is more involved then it ever was. I mean look at some of the quest mobs on Island of Thunder, a lot of them have more mechanisms then some raid bosses from Vanilla. Throw in the rare spawns too.

    Then you have stuff like Brawler´s guild, and jumping from scenarios into heroic scenarios... maybe challenge mode dungeons. Soon proving grounds.

    Also, you are completely wrong about progression. I am guessing you never played vanilla or BC ( heh, doubt you even played MoP), but in vanilla, there was NOTHING for casuals to do except maybe run 1 or 2 five man dungeons for 1 or 2 drops.. If you didn´t raid, pretty much the only thing to do was roll alts. I went probably 5 months where there was only 1 possible item upgrade for me from Strat... I would try to find a group for that dungeon, but otherwise, I just played alts.

  19. #19
    Legendary! seam's Avatar
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    See, you can make ANY point if you don't define what a word means.

    What is a 'Casual' player?

    I could say that WoW is the best Casual player game ever, if a Casual player is someone who likes doing a few quests a day, maybe a LFR, and then logging. Perhaps a pet battle or two, and hey, lets do a BG!

    Or I could say a Casual player is someone who only does normal modes, but nothing higher, leaving the casual I was talking about before be "Super Casual".

    Maybe I define 'Casual' as amount of time played, in which someone could be doing heroic raiding, but ONLY log on for raids, clocking in maybe 9 hours a week.

    Basically, it's hard to say "MoP is boring for Casuals" in a broad statement without defining what you mean by 'Casual'. Because if you're making broad statements, you're probably wrong.
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  20. #20
    Field Marshal dubwise's Avatar
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    Starting to really think OP can't find a way to feel superior on WoW w/o raiding for realsies. Just make your own guild, inv randoms, and put your IQ in the motd.

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