Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,909
    The things to consider with sims is NOT current gear NOR BiS.

    Current gear only matters the very first week or few, and since people will be more or less learning fights or clearing normals for heroics outside of the top few guilds that first week won't matter much.

    BiS gear doesn't matter since as you approach BiS gear THE TIER IS OVER.

    What matters is the amount of gear you have once you start getting the first ~3+ heroic bosses down. And how classes are balanced at that point.

    Remember, the RPPM trinket nerfs hurts many classes. Yes, feather will pretty much blow for us. But other classes are getting even more screwed. You'll probably never see an unholy DK in SoO as it currently stands.

    So I expect warriors to be at least several spaces higher on the DPS list than current sims show them, and I'm ignoring BiS sims completely since they don't matter at this point. Without another raid tier BiS DPS is fairly moot as far as impact, only mattering for e-peen.

    The other factor is how prevalent Arms will be. I've been gone for the past 5-6 weeks so I haven't done anything on the PTR, but if Arms stays as strong in AoE as it currently is, fury's DPS may not even really matter outside of a few fights. I may end up going Arms if I get a 2h reasonably quick into the tier, and only go back fury once the tier is over (Like I and others did in DS.)

    So we really can't tell how well fury is going to do outside of some vague general idea that is probably not even close to accurate.

  2. #22
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    25
    But main Topic will be the SimDPS on Single target, even if you have more Fights with multiple targets you can better tell how much usefull are some classes for 10man raids, cause i am sorry to say 80% of all Raids are 10man. Even from this 80% over all Raids - they are 100% of 10man then, from this 10man raids are only 10% Heroicraiding, so you can tell that just 8% of over all Raiders doing 10Man Heroic.

    So if we consider this all 10man Raids needs to be buffed, or the Classes have to be Balance like so you can go on 10man Heroic with all kind of Setup, when i remember first weeks on ToT HC against Animus -HC nobody could take a Warrior Tank. Everybody stacked Palatanks cause of its broken Mechanic, i Hope Blizzard remembers this an doesnt do anything stupid again like this.

    So well its more likely that blizzard should also balanced the Item Drops in 10man. I dont know why but if you play 10man you are hardly fucked, cause you just get 2 Items in 25man you get 6 ,thats 3times more Items but its only 2,5 more players so they get 2 items for Free, and you can hardly Equip much faster then 10man that should be fixxed. i remember the first 4 Weeks of ToT where we disenchanted more then 4 Items cause we didnt have a shaman in our Setup.
    Last edited by OsOk; 2013-09-03 at 11:37 AM.

  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,909
    I can't even understand what you are trying to say mate x.x

    Something to consider is there are more 10m raid groups, but fewer percentage of 10m raid groups are hardcore than 25.

  4. #24
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    25
    What i was trying to say is, that Blizzard misscalculated the Balacing in Raids, for 10man and 25man.

    I would say that there are much more 10man Heroric Raids then 25man Heroic raids a the moment. But also the Lootsystem isnt balanced. As i allready Said, if you raid 25man you have more then 2xtwice the loot of 10Man and its much easiert to Equip and Outgear some Bosses, so i was talking about, this "all BiS" not even 1% of 10man Heroic raiders get there "BiS" Heroic gear. So it would be much more usefull to See how we scale with "BiS" Normalgear. Cause more Guys would take normal mode gear to compare all classes in DPS then in Heroic.

    But as allready told, we need to get some usefull buff for both Specs so that we dont end up again on the last DPS Positions.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    The things to consider with sims is NOT current gear NOR BiS.

    Current gear only matters the very first week or few, and since people will be more or less learning fights or clearing normals for heroics outside of the top few guilds that first week won't matter much.

    BiS gear doesn't matter since as you approach BiS gear THE TIER IS OVER.

    What matters is the amount of gear you have once you start getting the first ~3+ heroic bosses down. And how classes are balanced at that point.

    Remember, the RPPM trinket nerfs hurts many classes. Yes, feather will pretty much blow for us. But other classes are getting even more screwed. You'll probably never see an unholy DK in SoO as it currently stands.

    So I expect warriors to be at least several spaces higher on the DPS list than current sims show them, and I'm ignoring BiS sims completely since they don't matter at this point. Without another raid tier BiS DPS is fairly moot as far as impact, only mattering for e-peen.

    The other factor is how prevalent Arms will be. I've been gone for the past 5-6 weeks so I haven't done anything on the PTR, but if Arms stays as strong in AoE as it currently is, fury's DPS may not even really matter outside of a few fights. I may end up going Arms if I get a 2h reasonably quick into the tier, and only go back fury once the tier is over (Like I and others did in DS.)

    So we really can't tell how well fury is going to do outside of some vague general idea that is probably not even close to accurate.
    yeah im also def. starting out the tier in arms and already changed over about 2 weeks ago since my guild currently is taking a break in preparation for 5.4 now the trink issue does have me a bit concerned on which one to start the tier with I currently have heroic tf feathers an heroic tf primo an primo def. has a lot higher uptime as arms then it has for fury (atleast for me it does) should we consider goin with the expertise valor trink an maybe trink off of horridon? or is feathers still bis goin into 5.4

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    Yeah because we all care about t16 BiS lists for the first weeks of progression As long as nobody bothers to give out BiS lists for the other classes (23 speccs list are missing right now) there won't be any comparison chart, i'm terribly sorry.

    As for SoO fights Woobels already covered it: patchwerk simulation are basically not important at all when half of the fight allow for permanent multidot or heavy aoe bursting periods. Depending on raid size and job assignments there are <1/3 of the fights where i can see pure single target qualities.
    I can say from our normal and heroic testing on the PTR, locks,mages, and other multi-dot range that can cleave are doing very well. Even Fire mages with their combustion nerfs are still topping because they can still spread huge ignites to three other targets besides their main target. On top of that Soo fights are far worse for melee than Tot fights so graphs mean next to nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    I can't even understand what you are trying to say mate x.x

    Something to consider is there are more 10m raid groups, but fewer percentage of 10m raid groups are hardcore than 25.
    Ya you also have fewer dps slots for 10man which makes progression guilds choose dps and utility for any of the few melee they take if they are serious about progression. So if they run three healers,two tanks, that leaves 5 spots for dps which makes that harder for warriors to get into because of the fights themselves and dps.

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,909
    Honestly people say it's "hard" for a warrior to find a spot, I've never seen it. Perhaps it's hard to get into one specific guild if they are not specifically looking for a warrior, but when I've looked around and talked to people recruiting/people tried to poach me I've never seen difficulty if I wanted to get placed somewhere good.

    Be good at your class, and you can always find a good place to raid.

  8. #28
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Honestly people say it's "hard" for a warrior to find a spot, I've never seen it. Perhaps it's hard to get into one specific guild if they are not specifically looking for a warrior, but when I've looked around and talked to people recruiting/people tried to poach me I've never seen difficulty if I wanted to get placed somewhere good.
    ̶b̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶g̶̶o̶̶o̶̶d̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶c̶̶l̶̶a̶̶s̶̶s̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶n̶̶d̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶ ̶̶c̶̶a̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶l̶̶w̶̶a̶̶y̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶i̶̶n̶̶d̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶g̶̶o̶̶o̶̶d̶̶ ̶̶p̶̶l̶̶a̶̶c̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶o̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶a̶̶i̶̶d̶ * be a good class, like mage, and you can always find a good place to raid. .
    The ONLY Reason to pick a Warrior into a Raid atm is as Tank or as "Place the damn critbanner Dude". gg Blizz

    Quote Originally Posted by unholyness View Post
    Ya you also have fewer dps slots for 10man which makes progression guilds choose dps and utility for any of the few melee they take if they are serious about progression. So if they run three healers,two tanks, that leaves 5 spots for dps which makes that harder for warriors to get into because of the fights themselves and dps.
    True Story dude, if you wanna have a melee unfriendly Fight like Animus HC, go pick more Warlocks and Mage for free Kills! ...

    If Blizzard really wanted a serious Contest, they would have balanced all Classe to deal nearly the same Damage. But Warris lacks over all, sorry man i dont want to be the guy for "utillity only"

    *we need HP Shout* do it, k done
    *Bloodlust comming* do your Crit banner, k done
    * we need Damage reduction* Place your Demo Banner, k Done,

    Fight Over, hhmmmm lets look at the DPS, omfg, Warri you lack on Damage, thanks god we got 3 mages and 2 Warlocks. ...
    Last edited by OsOk; 2013-09-06 at 11:20 AM.

  9. #29
    Warriors are good on damage dealt, and utility this tier. Almost every single top tier raiding guild (25man) chose to use at least one.
    Warriors are Amazing on damage dealt next tier, and we got even better utility thanks to losing our current 4piece. I'll be very surprised if any guild chose to not use a warrior, we are just too good to not use atm.
    My Armory
    Ascendance, World rank #8, is recruiting for the next expansion!

  10. #30
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    25
    man, nobody cares if you are ajust a banned holder and do 40-50k less damage then others classes

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Barbaria
    Posts
    5,952
    Quote Originally Posted by OsOk View Post
    man, nobody cares if you are ajust a banned holder and do 40-50k less damage then others classes
    Dont you care though. I havent raided in awhile, but back in the TBC days I used to play an Enh shaman to help the guild out with totems, and I did 20% less dps then the rogues I helped. The guild was better off, but it wasn't as fun for me as getting on my warrior and being up there with the rogues.

    That, and Warrior as buff bot is wrong! Just Wrong!
    You, you'll regret what you have done this day, I will make you regret ever being born, you're going to wish you never left your mother's womb, where it was warm and safe and wet, I am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you're going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainbow!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ep65rr-9qjQ Full Pilot Episode! Best thing to come out of Adult Swim!

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Central US
    Posts
    666
    Quote Originally Posted by OsOk View Post
    nobody wants to TANK guys, Warriors wants to DO dps ... please get some brain.
    Speak for yourself. Warrior tanking used to be some of the best fun in the game.

    Hey look, an opinion.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •