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  1. #181
    Because they are not competing for world firsts, should they be doing that they'd be doing alt runs that matter more than racial differences.

    That's like saying you need a KERS system on your car just because F1 cars have it.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Not sure how you got to that. What I meant was: if world first guilds need racials, and they often do the early bosses with more gear than say, the top 50 guilds, why doesn't this last category need them?
    You don't need every gem in your gear. Why not take one out for shits and giggles?
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  3. #183
    It's not "horde racials are OP", it's orc and troll racials only.. play a ret paladin horde site and you have no advantage AT ALL over any alliance paladins who all have useful racials.

    Human racial is OP as hell for healers and some casters (hybrids with maces get double dips) and obviously in PVP.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest

  4. #184
    Epic! Zaxio's Avatar
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    Well allis have Cool looking heroes.Horde have cool racials

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    You don't need every gem in your gear. Why not take one out for shits and giggles?
    I'm actually arguing that they need them, you need to get better reading comprehension.

    And for Inthislzon, of course I need them anyways if I care about the time of my kills. It's basically no effort for an extra gain.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  6. #186
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    First: it's racials, not racial's

    Second: the remedy to overpowered racials is to bring the others to the same level, not to nerf them.

  7. #187
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theatre View Post
    Blizzard nerfed Will of the Forsaken into the ground, supposedly for being over-powered in PvP. Then they gave the same ability to humans and nobody seemed to mind. Horde favoritism indeed.
    Yes every man for himself is indeed very powerful but can you name any other alliance good racial compare to the horde?

    Basically human is the only race int he alliance that has indeed very good racials but the horde has so many like orcs, blood elves aoe silence, trolls haste, and goblins.

    Do I need to say more?
    Last edited by Velshin; 2013-08-28 at 05:24 PM.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    I'm actually arguing that they need them, you need to get better reading comprehension.

    And for Inthislzon, of course I need them anyways if I care about the time of my kills. It's basically no effort for an extra gain.
    Derp, you're right. My bad.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    They make money off it, and who does it matter for? The sub 1% of players doing heroic raids?
    Exactly. For causal player most of the racial's are junk.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    And for Inthislzon, of course I need them anyways if I care about the time of my kills. It's basically no effort for an extra gain.
    "No effort" then sure, i do gem and enchant, as does everyone else, but i don't really mind someone with an uglier char gets an increased DPS, they have to be compensated somehow for looking awfully, neither would i pay to race-change.

    Maybe if i were to reroll a new char now strictly for hardcore raiding then yes, i'd surely pick a troll/orc. Other than that... no way.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    "No effort" then sure, i do gem and enchant, as does everyone else, but i don't really mind someone with an uglier char gets an increased DPS, they have to be compensated somehow for looking awfully, neither would i pay to race-change.

    Maybe if i were to reroll a new char now strictly for hardcore raiding then yes, i'd surely pick a troll/orc. Other than that... no way.
    Seeing your level of progression I understand why you aren't in that mindset. Considering you got to Primordius normal when we started trying that on heroic pretty much explains it. You haven't encountered any severe gear check with the appropriate gear.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  12. #192
    Yep, i raid pretty much with friends, we killed DA a couple weeks ago, so maybe that's why i don't think racials to be so gamebreaking

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Yep, i raid pretty much with friends, maybe that's why i prefer looks to 0.5% performance.
    Please don't take it as a critique, I can see how my last post might seem to be harsh. Everyone does whatever he wants, but I can see why you wouldn't be in that mindset.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Wokopoly View Post
    http://www.wowprogress.com/simdps/

    Every single one of them is Troll on the First page. I didn't look how far back it goes.

    Also, Berserking = 20% Haste for 10 secs every 180 secs = 1.111111111111% Passive Haste = 36.43 Haste Rating That's a HUGE deal.
    The 0.111111111111% accounts for it having a GCD.

    But basically the average is close to what most other racials are, a 1% stat bonus.

  15. #195
    I would love to see racials become something like selectable mini-talents taken when you first create your character. Have 1 active and 2 passives and then have all racial abilities selectable from the list. It would be easy enough to change the names for "lore" reasons so abilities like berserking can become something like "Deadly grace" or "Drunken Fury". This would make some people upset because homogenization, but overall I think it would give each character a unique feel based upon what you want to do with said character. So if you raid you take one setup of racials vs a PvPer who might take a completely different set vs a crafter alt who might take yet another different set of racials.

    I can dream this will happen someday. Maybe.

  16. #196
    Oh the irony.. Alliance players feels bad that horde has good racials, yet humans has the best racial for PvP ever.

  17. #197
    Class balance is much absurd than racials and they let it be for months and months each patch. I mean, +50% dps differences on same role (tanks)?. That was vanilla level of balance, and they simply left it be for the whole tier. You expect they give a shit about racials on pve? Ha. HAHAHA.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Please don't take it as a critique, I can see how my last post might seem to be harsh. Everyone does whatever he wants, but I can see why you wouldn't be in that mindset.
    No offense taken, don't worry.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by El Plastico View Post
    Question asked and answered in same post. Now that's efficient. Really though I think the Worgen racials are the best ones in the game.
    The Worgen racial is better than every other Alliance exclusive racial. The Panda racial is better than the Worgen racial and every other Alliance racial under every circumstance. The Panda racial lags behind at 3rd for most DPS specs on Horde side, and not by a tiny margin. It doesn't matter if you think the Worgen racials are the best one in the game, they're objectively not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    Funny, I never needed racials for heroic kills....
    Raiding guilds do, casual guilds don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    The advantage those racials give can be made up in many other ways such as perfecting your rotation. I switched from BE to Troll for ToT and the only difference that was noticeable was the lack of my AOE silence.
    No, the difference can't be made up. Guess what would do more DPS than "perfecting your rotation"? "Perfecting your rotation" as one of the better races. You act as if perfecting your rotation and being the highest DPS race are two exclusive things. Your point makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    No they didn't. It may have helped them get world first but for the kills? Yeah right comes to mind.

    Anyway OP, I'm glad bosses magically fall over at a much faster rate for you now you have horde racials and that you put efficiency over faction pride (and you seem to very much care about faction pride)

    Anyway, off to make a "y r ally racials OP for pvp" whine thread.
    Go for it. There's a reason only 11 of the top 50 from EU-Cyclone and 1 of the top 50 from US-Bloodlust are Alliance.

    Hint: It isn't because Alliance is the OP of the two. Cataclysm ended last year.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Gondlem View Post
    Speaking as someone in a competitive guild that is still holding out hope and staying alliance, the biggest issue is really Beastslaying.

    Some of the other horde racials are also a bit strong, mostly troll for specs that benefit from on-demand haste and orcs to a lesser extent, but really the only time it's a "you've got to be kidding me" sort of crazy imbalance is for beast bosses, where every class in a horde raid except paladins do 5% more damage than their alliance counterparts. That's really silly, and frankly there's just no justification for something so absurd existing in the game.

    If Blizzard simply deleted beastslaying, straight up removed that ability from the game, that would solve a lot of the problems, because right now there's a serious danger that one of the beast bosses in any given tier will be extremely hard, and if that happens, it's going to be gamebreaking for alliance. Imagine for instance if a fight the difficulty of Ragnaros or Lei Shen was a beast, and horde did 5% more damage on that boss. It's just something that should never happen.

    That aside, racials are still a bit of a problem, and every guild that goes horde makes it harder for the remaining alliance guilds at the top end of raiding because the alliance community shrinks, your friends in other guilds are all horde, and there's less and less incentive to stick it out and keep some semblance of faction balance at the top of PvE.

    There's a lot of easy fixes on top of deleting Beastslaying. My preferred option would just be to mirror the racials. Make, for instance, worgen and troll racials do the same thing, human and orc, night elf and blood elf, tauren and dwarf... and so on. So you could pick from whichever race you wanted, for either aesthetic or min/max reasons, and faction difference was non-existent. I expect something like this will happen in 6.0, or all racials will go cosmetic.
    Beastslaying may be the biggest imbalance, but Berserking is also up there. In the current raid metagame where opening burst makes up a huge chunk of your damage, having an extra 20% on demand Haste to snapshot into your Combustion or UVLS Doom is gamebreaking. Only Horde offers on demand burst racials.

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