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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultramonkey View Post
    ITT: Alliance players complaining that the Troll racial "Beastslaying" has finally shone in a raid sitation, despite being in the game since 2004 and being next to useless since then.
    Wanna know what's best?

    Bosses classified as beast in ToT:

    Horridon (and ONLY horridon)
    Tortos
    Megaera
    Ji-Kun

    Add Iron Qon dogs to that (can't remember if they are beasts atm)

    On that 5 bosses...

    Damage on horridon never was an issue, the issue was killing adds, and those are humanoids. 3rd/4th heroic kill for 99% of the guilds.
    Tortos is an execution fight. The "dps check" of killing turtle before breath is nonexistant at best.
    Megaera was 4-healed on 10 man at the start. If you are 4-healing a 10man boss you don't need more damage.
    Ji-Kun competes with Jin-rokh for the title of easiest heroic boss ever. And is also a mechanics boss, just keep doing nests and he will die.
    Iron Qon... ok, have this one. The 5% damage from trolls may be the reason you only get 1 storm instead of 2.

    So that 5% is useful in a ~20% of a boss that is killed 5th or earlier by non world-first guids, inside of a raid of 13 bosses.

    Totally gamebreaking.

    EDIT: On burst vs sustained (as in berserking/orc fury vs weapon expertise) on use racials are better if you have another 2-min CD to stack with it.

    Imagine a ret pally, probably the "burstiest" (is that even a word? XD) class out there. What use can they get of a 2-min racial? Turning it into a 3-min one by macro-ing with wings? At that point you are surely better with passive expertise.

    Same happens with mages (1,5 min combustion, 3 glyphed), monks (3min xuen), spriests (3 min shadowfiend) and essentially every class with 3-min or 5-min CDs.

    EDIT 2: As Ultramonkey pointed below, any tank given the chance to pick a set of racials without actually swapping races is going NE, and an argument can be made about healers picking gift of the naaru before berserking.
    Last edited by Inthislzon; 2013-08-30 at 01:40 AM.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    alliance has been complaining about orcs long before this tier, nice try though.
    Alliance was whining since 2005....

    Back in those glorious days when the trolls best racial was that Troll regeneration, when orcs boiling blood was completely meaningless for Tanks, Healers and Range-DDs...

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    alliance has been complaining about orcs long before this tier, nice try though.
    Read the thread, most complaints are that Trolls are doing "significantly more damage" than anyone else in ToT due to the high amount of Beasts.

    Ignoring the fact that Night Elves and Dwarves both have fantastic tanking talents (2% dodge and Stone Form), Draenei have the ability to alleviate their healers by boosting their own health after raid-wide damage (Gift of the Naaru) and Worgen have the ability to initialise combat quicker after knockbacks or having to avoid close proximity AoE on the boss (Darkflight). Not to mention the fact the have much more option for reforging, due to all their races having +x% to stats.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Wokopoly View Post
    This has been a problem that's been known for a long time. I've been playing Horde for a while, but at first i was Alliance up until seeing the advantages the horde had. Since then, i have spent hundreds of dollars moving alts to a high populated server (Illidan) in order to progress in Heroic raiding at a very fast pace. But in the back of my head, i know i want to be Alliance, and i would much rather be on the other faction.

    Why hasn't blizzard fixed the racial's so people can play what they want rather than what they need? Have they said anything about fixing this in the future? by no means will i quit the game because of this, but i'd enjoy it a whole lot more being able to play my faction of choice.
    Because human racial is best in pvp, bar none, since wrath. Cry some more ally.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Same happens with mages (1,5 min combustion, 3 glyphed)

    EDIT 2: As Ultramonkey pointed below, any tank given the chance to pick a set of racials without actually swapping races is going NE, and an argument can be made about healers picking gift of the naaru before berserking.
    You obviously don't understand how important the opening Combustion is. Haste effects stack multiplicatively. With Hero, LMG, Berserking is actually 33.8% Haste. Now, if you look at any top parse for a council fight (or Tortos), you see that the first Combustion [b]deals more damage than all the other Combustions combined.[b] So Berserking is way more powerful than 1% Crit of 300 extra primary stat. Berserking is the reason you see Fire Mages reach 2+ million DPS in the first 30 seconds of a council fight.

  6. #226
    High Overlord Molyneux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    Funny, I never needed racials for heroic kills....
    If you're not killing the bosses in the first week or two on heroic, then I'm sure it doesn't matter for you and your mid-range guild.

  7. #227
    The Patient Wulfstan's Avatar
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    This isn't being addressed because it doesn't matter.
    The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.- George Carlin

  8. #228
    This issue effects maybe 60 players in the entire world? Don't think Blizzard will care.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by angryplateguy View Post
    Because human racial is best in pvp, bar none, since wrath. Cry some more ally.
    Is that why every high-end PVPer went Tich Horde for this expansion?
    Or are you still clueless that Blizz specifically made PVP power/PVP resilience and nerfs PVE trinkets regularly so the Human racial really doesn't matter as much this expansion?

  10. #230
    Mechagnome Zatetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozendekay View Post
    If that was true then we wouldn't have seen all of the top guilds going horde. Sadly, only 6 of the top 20 25man guilds overall are alliance and only 4 of the top 20 25man US guilds. Those numbers will likely go down if it stays this way next xpac.
    its easy to slump more responsibility on your healers. what top 10 guilds do isnt important or even relevant. 90% of raiders couldnt keep up with a top 10 guild raider if they had identical gear and identical racial attributes.

    this game is balanced around the majority, not the tippy top minority. I doubt there is more than 2 people that posted in this thread that actually raid in a team that competitive or serious.

    Also, someone questioned why people in method just faction swapped. if the officers take the guild horde and youre a raider, you can either go with them and continue to be a raider in the top 25m guild in the world or find somewhere else to raid (which is also going to cost money for server transfers etc). There isnt actually a choice present. its pay for faction change or pay for server xfer.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    its easy to slump more responsibility on your healers. what top 10 guilds do isnt important or even relevant. 90% of raiders couldnt keep up with a top 10 guild raider if they had identical gear and identical racial attributes.

    this game is balanced around the majority, not the tippy top minority. I doubt there is more than 2 people that posted in this thread that actually raid in a team that competitive or serious.

    Also, someone questioned why people in method just faction swapped. if the officers take the guild horde and youre a raider, you can either go with them and continue to be a raider in the top 25m guild in the world or find somewhere else to raid (which is also going to cost money for server transfers etc). There isnt actually a choice present. its pay for faction change or pay for server xfer.
    It's not just Method. Almost all the hardcore Alliance raiding guilds have faction-changed to Horde. And this creates a snowball effect that guilds below also feel the need to faction-change to Horde to stay competitive. Then Alliance loses its hardcore raiding population to the point that anyone who needs to raid seriously has to faction-change to Horde, and guilds who stubbornly stay Alliance have a smaller and smaller pool of candidates, which prompts them to also faction-change to Horde for viable recruitment.

    Read this excellent thread which includes the opinions of top guilds (who have already went Horde or in the process of considering it): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9244925251

  12. #232
    Midwinter and Scrubbusters, as good as they are, wouldn't be able to match Method even with Horde racials. Besides, in Siege only 1 boss is a "beast".

  13. #233
    Stood in the Fire
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    I think having different racials is a good thing. And as long as the racials are different, some will be more powerful than the others. If a 0.5% (or even a 5% on Megaera) DPS increase matters that much to you, you should probably just grit your teeth and enjoy playing a Troll on the Horde.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Midwinter and Scrubbusters, as good as they are, wouldn't be able to match Method even with Horde racials. Besides, in Siege only 1 boss is a "beast".
    Except Thok is a late in the instance boss that drops tier and looks to be a hefty DPS check. He isn't some irrelevant faceroll boss like Horridon, Ji-kun, or Iron Qon.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    Except Thok is a late in the instance boss that drops tier and looks to be a hefty DPS check. He isn't some irrelevant faceroll boss like Horridon, Ji-kun, or Iron Qon.
    No-one really knows. From PTR Iron Qon looked like it would be an absolute beast(duh) of an encounter. On live, t'was lol.

    I honestly don't think racials are even that bad of a problem, by now it's more about the population imbalance that leads to recruitment issues than anything else. I'm all for making racials cosmetic instead of damage increases though (I'm tired of having to play ugly chars I want a cutie BE kthxbai), but I'm also pretty realistic and don't think this would solve the current imbalance problem at all.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    This issue effects maybe 60 players in the entire world? Don't think Blizzard will care.
    It's not only affecting the real hardcore world first raiders, but also a lot of high to low range hc raiding guilds because, believe it or not, a lot of raiders look what the very best guilds do and copy it, even if that wouldn't make a difference for them in their success. That's just human behaviour. And those people going horde affect all other guilds on alliance side (and also hore). And so on. It's all connected
    Last edited by Ryva; 2013-08-30 at 05:58 AM.

  17. #237
    It really is funny that people are trying to argue that 5% more damage on a beast boss doesn't matter. It's close to the same increase as having another person in the raid. There's never been a racial as powerful as that.

    A fight does not have to be a tight DPS check for 5% more damage to make it easier.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Gondlem View Post
    It really is funny that people are trying to argue that 5% more damage on a beast boss doesn't matter. It's close to the same increase as having another person in the raid. There's never been a racial as powerful as that.

    A fight does not have to be a tight DPS check for 5% more damage to make it easier.
    So... you prefer having beastslaying?

    Fine, i'll take your paladins and shamans so you can get more trolls. Hopefully your extra DPS makes up for the fact that now you are 2-tanking everything (no bop remember?)

    Oh, and you are also 3-healing H:25 ToT. You need 2 tanks, 20 DPS so a 5% each gives you another extra DPS and that leaves you 3 spots for healers.

    Please link me your logs of heroic megaera being 2 tanked and 3 healed on 25. I'll wait.

    EDIT: Also while you are at it get logs from primordius, animus, leishen and raden.

  19. #239
    High Overlord Spylacopa's Avatar
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    stop crying. human racial is OP too and so are some others

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Funny, because Method apparently did.
    So create different achievements and news.
    Instead of World First Kill / Server First Kill, turn it into Horde World First Kill or Alliance World First Kill, etc.
    Then people will go: "Horde easy mode, that's why you got the achievement".

    Problem Solved.
    Next up, world hunger.

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