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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Theatre View Post
    Blizzard nerfed Will of the Forsaken into the ground, supposedly for being over-powered in PvP. Then they gave the same ability to humans and nobody seemed to mind. Horde favoritism indeed.
    Yeah, AFTER it was nerfed to the ground. Really quite fair indeed.
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  2. #302
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Personally don't find them overpowered. Some are situationally good while others are used for more offensive roles, while the alliance has more defensive racials. It's playing into the theme of horde vs alliance and how they approach things differently.

    Overpowered is a bit of a stretch tbh.
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  3. #303
    Orc and Trolls are known for being berserkers, Humans are known for surviving and night elves for hiding. But I really wish they would get rid of racials, some seem to make pvp a tad unfair.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    The same argument can be said backwards too.

    If alliance sucks so much for raiding, horde racials are OP, every serious raider went horde etc etc... how come the second best US guild is alliance? Are they god's gift to raiding or something?
    literally 5 posts above you're midwinters raid leader is saying that horde racials are better...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eike View Post
    horde racials are good in pve while alliance racials are good in pvp that's fair enough.
    and it's not like your raid is gonna need racials to kill a boss, or else is a bad raid.
    so how is that fair for alliance pve raiding then?
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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    literally 5 posts above you're midwinters raid leader is saying that horde racials are better...
    As long as differences exists, balance can NEVER be done 100%. That's a fact

    What i'm saying is that balance issues are nowhere near as bad as you seem to belive.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    As long as differences exists, balance can NEVER be done 100%. That's a fact

    What i'm saying is that balance issues are nowhere near as bad as you seem to belive.
    And what you need to know is that the difference is big enough to make world first guilds change from alliance to horde, which created a cascade where other guilds that are 20-30th world ranks change because of availability of new recruits, which made the 40-50 guild transfer and so on.

    Overall, the whole raiding scene has moved towards horde and it is now more convenient to raid on that faction.

    Sadly, the damage is done. Even if they straight up removed racials right now, the imbalance would go on because it's much easier to find new blood for horde. The only thing Blizz could do right now is straight overbuff alliance racials until it evens out, but that would probably not work either. It's too late.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    And what you need to know is that the difference is big enough to make world first guilds change from alliance to horde, which created a cascade where other guilds that are 20-30th world ranks change because of availability of new recruits, which made the 40-50 guild transfer and so on.

    Overall, the whole raiding scene has moved towards horde and it is now more convenient to raid on that faction.

    Sadly, the damage is done. Even if they straight up removed racials right now, the imbalance would go on because it's much easier to find new blood for horde. The only thing Blizz could do right now is straight overbuff alliance racials until it evens out, but that would probably not work either. It's too late.
    ^^ This a thousand times. Our faction transfer to took place yesterday, 3 months after we cleared ToT when it would have helped us most. We not only switched sides for the racial bonuses, but the recruiting benefits and our RealID friends who are mostly Horde. I really want people to recognize exactly what happened here. More powerful PVE racials tipped the scales enough to destroy Alliance raiding from the top down and it has rippled far beyond the scope of just the top 1% of raiding guilds. The entire WoW population is affected in the end.
    Last edited by kidsafe; 2013-09-01 at 12:36 AM.
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  8. #308
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    And what you need to know is that the difference is big enough to make world first guilds change from alliance to horde, which created a cascade where other guilds that are 20-30th world ranks change because of availability of new recruits, which made the 40-50 guild transfer and so on.

    Overall, the whole raiding scene has moved towards horde and it is now more convenient to raid on that faction.

    Sadly, the damage is done. Even if they straight up removed racials right now, the imbalance would go on because it's much easier to find new blood for horde. The only thing Blizz could do right now is straight overbuff alliance racials until it evens out, but that would probably not work either. It's too late.
    Same for PVP and alliance racials.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by halfawake View Post
    Well hey as a troll moonkin, worgen is better than anything horde has to offer... I would assume its the same for fire mages! The only thing I agree with is that beastslaying is too strong but other than that only orc is very good. Also both sides have pandas which come out to best race for lots of classes I'm sure (at least I know I was told it's best for rogues)
    You assume very wrong. Troll racial is quite possibly better for a Fire Mage(and mages in general - Alter Time) than any other spec in the game.

  10. #310
    Blood Elf checking in! I heard my racials were OP for PvE!!!

    AWWW YISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

    Going to faceroll some bosses with my AoE Silence!

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Same for PVP and alliance racials.
    Even if this was relevant (it's not really), it's not even accurate. Of the first 50 25 man guilds to kill Lei Shen Heroic, 12 were alliance, and of the first 50 10 mans, 13 were alliance. So that's about 1 in 4 overall.

    Looking at the top 50 3v3 teams, 21 of them are horde, and of the top 50 5v5 teams, 19 are horde. If you care about 2v2 that's 26 horde and 24 alliance. Slight alliance advantage but it's not as bad, and more PvE guilds are going horde all the time which isn't really true of the top PvP teams. And the top rated BGs are horde dominated as well.

    Anyway, even if it was true that the imbalance in PvP was just as bad, that's just another reason to re-balance racials or make them cosmetic only.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondlem View Post
    Even if this was relevant (it's not really), it's not even accurate. Of the first 50 25 man guilds to kill Lei Shen Heroic, 12 were alliance, and of the first 50 10 mans, 13 were alliance. So that's about 1 in 4 overall.

    Looking at the top 50 3v3 teams, 21 of them are horde, and of the top 50 5v5 teams, 19 are horde. If you care about 2v2 that's 26 horde and 24 alliance. Slight alliance advantage but it's not as bad, and more PvE guilds are going horde all the time which isn't really true of the top PvP teams. And the top rated BGs are horde dominated as well.

    Anyway, even if it was true that the imbalance in PvP was just as bad, that's just another reason to re-balance racials or make them cosmetic only.
    So there's an advantage and why isn't it relevant? Because you don't want it to be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    So there's an advantage and why isn't it relevant? Because you don't want it to be?
    Because this is a PvE game, not a PvP game.

  14. #314
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I think everyone knows that Horde racials are just better enough so that the majority don't care, but if you do care it matters. I've said before I'd love to go back Horde, since I have friends there and Horde is better than Alliance overall on Turalyon (although the top guild is Alliance), but most of the Alliance people I know refuse to go Horde for whatever reason.
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  15. #315
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I think everyone knows that Horde racials are just better enough so that the majority don't care, but if you do care it matters. I've said before I'd love to go back Horde, since I have friends there and Horde is better than Alliance overall on Turalyon (although the top guild is Alliance), but most of the Alliance people I know refuse to go Horde for whatever reason.
    My realm is alliance heavy and it's hard to raid on horde but my friends are horde so I stay horde. Not related to racials

    Because this is a PvE game, not a PvP game.
    No, this is an MMO. The PvP scene, the raiding scene (I'm glad raiders now make up over 1% of players if you include LFR finally!), the pet battlers, the levelers, etc. They are all important and people take the game seriously in multiple aspects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    So there's an advantage and why isn't it relevant? Because you don't want it to be?
    It's a different topic, that's all. Horde racials are too strong for raiding, leading to a large number of high ranking alliance raiding guilds faction changing to horde, making it harder to start and maintain alliance raiding guilds.

    If there's an imblanace in pvp racials in the other direction, by all means fix that too. Saying "it's fine that only 25% of top raiding guilds are alliance because only 40% of top PvP teams are horde" is dumb. What do they have to do with each other? It's not even the same racials that are strong in both forms of the game.

  17. #317
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondlem View Post
    It's a different topic, that's all. Horde racials are too strong for raiding, leading to a large number of high ranking alliance raiding guilds faction changing to horde, making it harder to start and maintain alliance raiding guilds.

    If there's an imblanace in pvp racials in the other direction, by all means fix that too. Saying "it's fine that only 25% of top raiding guilds are alliance because only 40% of top PvP teams are horde" is dumb. What do they have to do with each other? It's not even the same racials that are strong in both forms of the game.
    But the thing is people have been saying "it's fine if everyone is alliance in PvP just transfer as well" when over 90% of the top teams were alliance. It goes both ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    But the thing is people have been saying "it's fine if everyone is alliance in PvP just transfer as well" when over 90% of the top teams were alliance. It goes both ways.
    Who has been saying that? Just because someone somewhere said something dumb doesn't mean totally reasonably arguments about racial balance are somehow invalid. If alliance racials are too strong in PvP then nerf them, I couldn't care less. I do care about PvE racials, and they need to be fixed, and have needed it for a fair while.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    No, this is an MMO. The PvP scene, the raiding scene (I'm glad raiders now make up over 1% of players if you include LFR finally!), the pet battlers, the levelers, etc. They are all important and people take the game seriously in multiple aspects.
    Just to correct this part: Raiders always made up much more then 1% of WoW players. It was just stated by Blizz at one point that only 1% killed Lich King hc. Then LFR heros came and mutated that statement by Blizz.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    The advantage those racials give can be made up in many other ways such as perfecting your rotation. I switched from BE to Troll for ToT and the only difference that was noticeable was the lack of my AOE silence.
    It doesn't need to be said, anyone who read your post knows, but I'll say it anyway: You're doing it wrong.


    Berserking is awesome, it's a big (dare I say, huge even) dps increase for all the people who are doing it right.

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