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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    It's true though. The panda racial is also 300 main stat which early on in the expansion beat out most other racials. You always ignore the pandas even though they're available to you.
    Let me jog your memory.

    That's three times now that you've demonstrated a complete lack of reading ability. It's tiring.

    Panda is not even the best alliance race for my class ignoring the fact that you lose the benefits upon death/resurrection. Worgen is the top hunter race because 600 crit rating is superior to 300 agility.

    Not only is Berserking and Blood Fury better on paper in strict Patchwerk encounters, cooldown stacking and initial burst pushes them far ahead. Giving them an even bigger advantage is the fact that many encounters hinge only on periods of burst DPS. Jin'rokh, Horridon, Ji-kun, Durumu, Primordius, Lei Shen, Ra-den for example.

    Troll Berserking by itself is beneficial even after RPPM nerfs. Haste remains the most powerful secondary stat for many classes, including BM hunters who receive some of the worst benefits from that stat. Our DoTs are static, most of our abilities are instant, etc. Temporary haste is OVERPOWERED. It's why Engineering is the de facto raid profession and why some casters even went as far as getting the haste cooldown from Herbalism.
    Last edited by kidsafe; 2013-09-03 at 07:48 PM.
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  2. #382
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Panda is not even the best alliance race for my class ignoring the fact that you lose the benefits upon death/resurrection. Worgen is the top hunter race because 600 crit rating is superior to 300 agility.
    Yes, you can act all superior that you know everything but you know this is not correct for all classes.

    Also temporary haste procs are OP - which is why an int/str/agi proc is the most important raiding prof? Get your arguments together bro this is just embarrassing to read right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Panda is not even the best alliance race for my class ignoring the fact that you lose the benefits upon death/resurrection. Worgen is the top hunter race because 600 crit rating is superior to 300 agility.
    Why are you and most other hunters hardgemming agility then? Makes no sense.

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Yes, you can act all superior that you know everything but you know this is not correct for all classes.

    Also temporary haste procs are OP - which is why an int/str/agi proc is the most important raiding prof? Get your arguments together bro this is just embarrassing to read right now.
    You know I meant temporary stat/buff professions, sorry for the typo. Our warlock just dropped blacksmithing for tailoring as another example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    Why are you and most other hunters hardgemming agility then? Makes no sense.
    Because socket bonuses exist and differences in stat scaling changes weights around at different aggregate levels.
    Last edited by kidsafe; 2013-09-03 at 10:36 PM.
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Because socket bonuses exist and differences in stat scaling changes weights around at different aggregate levels.
    Right socket bonus. Red = agility, yellow = haste/agi, blue = hit/agi and pure agility in prismatic. That sure sounds like you only go for agility because of socket bonuses. Oh wait no, it sounds like 1 agility is better than 2 secondaries. Different levels of gear may indeed end up in varying results of stat values, but as far as I'm aware hunters haven't ever reached a point of 2 secondaries > 1 agility. So no, worgen racial of 600 crit will not outshine panda racial of 300 agility.

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Because socket bonuses exist and differences in stat scaling changes weights around at different aggregate levels.
    Then why don't you gem agi/crit on reds, pure crit on yellows and crit/hit on blues?

    you can still get all socket bonuses that way

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Kinda going off-topic but couldn't avoid commentating on your last sentence... Adding more RNG isn't a solution to the problem. You're going to have awesome pulls and meh pulls a lot more than we're seeing now, with no real nerf to the syncing of abilities given that most burst/snapshot happens in the first 10 seconds for most classes.
    Exactly. The solution is to tone down all of these absurd procs and make more consistent/passive trinkets like we had in the past. Alternatively, they could realize that trinkets shouldn't be 20%+ of your DPS contribution from gear and make more sane trinkets.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Panda is not even the best alliance race for my class ignoring the fact that you lose the benefits upon death/resurrection. Worgen is the top hunter race because 600 crit rating is superior to 300 agility.
    No, it isn't. 300 Agi is worth almost 30% more than 600 crit rating for Hunters. Our secondary scaling is among the worst in the game.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Then why don't you gem agi/crit on reds, pure crit on yellows and crit/hit on blues?

    you can still get all socket bonuses that way
    I'd be going full haste in yellows and agi/haste in reds actually.
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Midwinter, Scrubbusters and that 10 man alliance guild. Why? They're the only 25 man guilds competing for top 5~ on a frequent basis. Is this a narrow minded view? Perhaps, but guilds who take 2 months to get to Thok and then can't kill Thok are not being held back by horde racials. For the record I think Thok should be changed. If it was Immerseus or something people wouldn't care, but Thok is very deep into the raid.
    If it wasn't such a massive cost to faction change among other things (like history etc) then SB would had done the faction switch a few tiers ago. We even complained during ptr about the horde troll racial (can check halby's post), and tbh blizzard's post about that only the top does that, just makes it more clear that they accept the risk of the top brass go mostly horde.

    edit: oh and the recruitment pool is way bigger on horde side
    Last edited by Cookiematico; 2013-09-04 at 07:58 AM.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Midwinter, Scrubbusters and that 10 man alliance guild. Why? They're the only 25 man guilds competing for top 5~ on a frequent basis. Is this a narrow minded view? Perhaps, but guilds who take 2 months to get to Thok and then can't kill Thok are not being held back by horde racials. For the record I think Thok should be changed. If it was Immerseus or something people wouldn't care, but Thok is very deep into the raid.
    I would say most of us would love to be horde, but luun is a big jerk and hates us all. The main problem is that changing to horde on our realm isnt an option so we would have to change realm also. $$$$ wtb 50% off week again

  11. #391
    troll is pretty sick.

  12. #392
    remember when Orc Warriors could get a flat 50%+ stun duration reduced, good times

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by zoomxspec View Post
    I would say most of us would love to be horde, but luun is a big jerk and hates us all. The main problem is that changing to horde on our realm isnt an option so we would have to change realm also. $$$$ wtb 50% off week again
    While the racial imbalance is apparent, I don't think outside of the troll beast racial it actually contributes all that much. A 50k wipe as Alliance would probably mean a kill as Horde, but how often are there 50k wipes happening? It's normally a 20-30 million HP wipe, especially at the health pools HC is tuned at.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I don't think it's worth the time to change, myself. The population is skewed to alliance still so I don't know what you're talking about.
    Have you completely forgot about the top-guilds (kinda, we're talking about all 13/13 hc. Still a minority but far more considerable than the few competing for world firsts) argument or are you ignoring it? Here, I'll phrase it better for you. The quality raiding population is skewed in favor of horde.
    Last edited by Fluorescent0; 2013-09-04 at 01:11 PM.
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  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    While the racial imbalance is apparent, I don't think outside of the troll beast racial it actually contributes all that much. A 50k wipe as Alliance would probably mean a kill as Horde, but how often are there 50k wipes happening? It's normally a 20-30 million HP wipe, especially at the health pools HC is tuned at.
    Yea, if you're getting 50K wipes on beast bosses this tier there are bigger issues those players need to address. Such as not standing in rock falls, not standing in feed pools, kiting Ice Beams, or interrupting poison.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Yea, if you're getting 50K wipes on beast bosses this tier there are bigger issues those players need to address. Such as not standing in rock falls, not standing in feed pools, kiting Ice Beams, or interrupting poison.
    Cute because Horde racials such as Berserking and Blood Fury alone could explain that, and actually higher wipes too. Not sure why you'd assume it's beast bosses he's referring to.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

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  17. #397
    Metzen hates Alliance and always will. Its just the way it is

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Krolikn View Post
    Metzen hates Alliance and always will. Its just the way it is
    The problem with that is that it creates a huge population shift. Since most of the big guilds are moving horde or already are, lots of the smaller guilds follow because there's going to be a bigger pool of raiders to recruit from. Over time this makes alliance raiding at any level more and more difficult since the potential recruit go Horde and find groups much more easily.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Cute because Horde racials such as Berserking and Blood Fury alone could explain that, and actually higher wipes too. Not sure why you'd assume it's beast bosses he's referring to.
    Because beastslayer is the only one that doesn't average out when compared to other gains.

  20. #400
    and Alliance have Human racials for pvp

    There, it's even. Horde for PvE and Alliance for PvP
    Blizzard White Knighting is not allowed

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