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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nye the Spy View Post
    and Alliance have Human racials for pvp

    There, it's even. Horde for PvE and Alliance for PvP
    Except there are more Horde on pvp realms as well and the alliance barely has an advantage in population in high-ranked pvp. Horde racials compete with the human one(which is the racial of a SINGLE alliance race) in pvp and are much better in pve as well.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Wokopoly View Post
    Why hasn't blizzard fixed the racial's so people can play what they want rather than what they need?
    Why wont Blizzard make raids more easy so that I can get teh gud gearz? Boom:easier nerfed up raids
    Well i dont want to be in a guild and raid whenever i want and get teh guder gearz! Boom: raidfinder
    Well Blizzard im bored and cleared your easy raids. Boom: Pokemon
    Well blizz i want my characters to all have the same abilities! Boom: Every character gets redone to look like a big dark grey pixel.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Because beastslayer is the only one that doesn't average out when compared to other gains.
    That's exactly the point. Berserking and Blood Fury are averagely (as in over the entire course of a fight) better than alliance racials, not equal. Keep in mind trolls also get ranged weapons expertise and orcs get axe expertise and pet damage.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  4. #404
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    That's exactly the point. Berserking and Blood Fury are averagely (as in over the entire course of a fight) better than alliance racials, not equal. Keep in mind trolls also get ranged weapons expertise and orcs get axe expertise and pet damage.
    Except without RPPM mechanics the difference is miniscule even in comparison to other racials. RPPM is being changed to a) not make berserking so good, b) not line up so well, d) make cooldown stacking less effective in general.

    I've played as a troll, orc, tauren, now goblin (in that order) - and I have never felt the need that I would even be able to see the dps increase changing would offer before this tier. Due to beastslaying and RPPM, not due to berserking and blood fury.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Except without RPPM mechanics the difference is miniscule even in comparison to other racials. RPPM is being changed to a) not make berserking so good, b) not line up so well, d) make cooldown stacking less effective in general.

    I've played as a troll, orc, tauren, now goblin (in that order) - and I have never felt the need that I would even be able to see the dps increase changing would offer before this tier. Due to beastslaying and RPPM, not due to berserking and blood fury.
    As I said earlier in this thread, this issue effects maybe 60-75 people in the world. You are not one of those people. You shouldn't even be in the thread saying it's fine. A boss with 1.9 billion HP and a harsh berserk and a 5% (call it 3%~) raid wide DPS increase is not significant? You're a fool. Thok is partially mechanical, make him a "mechanical" unit.

  6. #406
    Our guild would of killed Lei Shen heroic a week and half before we did if we were horde. +- 6% attempt = kill with horde racials on lei shen.

  7. #407
    "horde racials are overpowered" yeah right, look at humans, every human has double dps trinket because they already have a racial trinket

  8. #408
    Scarab Lord Anjerith's Avatar
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    A good Alliance player is always going to outperform a bad to alright Horde player. Once you have two evenly matched - and I mean this at an absurdly high level - then racials make a small difference, smaaaalll tinny.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  9. #409
    It's hard to argue that it really matters for anyone outside of the usual list of world first kill guilds. They care enough to take advantage of every potential boost.

    For most other people? That little boost isn't worth not playing their favorite race. I've got toons on both sides, but I'd never change my Dwarves and Gnomes to anything. They're my chosen Alliance races no matter how effective or ineffective their racials are.

    My Gnome warrior is smarter than your warrior!

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Except without RPPM mechanics the difference is miniscule even in comparison to other racials. RPPM is being changed to a) not make berserking so good, b) not line up so well, d) make cooldown stacking less effective in general.

    I've played as a troll, orc, tauren, now goblin (in that order) - and I have never felt the need that I would even be able to see the dps increase changing would offer before this tier. Due to beastslaying and RPPM, not due to berserking and blood fury.
    The RPPM nerf doesn't make cooldown stacking less effective, it makes it more reliant on RNG. that's two completely different things.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    As I said earlier in this thread, this issue effects maybe 60-75 people in the world. You are not one of those people. You shouldn't even be in the thread saying it's fine. A boss with 1.9 billion HP and a harsh berserk and a 5% (call it 3%~) raid wide DPS increase is not significant? You're a fool. Thok is partially mechanical, make him a "mechanical" unit.
    That horse was beaten to death like.. a million times already?

    Noone is saying beastslaying is balanced, IT IS NOT. PERIOD. Beastslaying should NOT work on raid bosses. Dunno how many times do you need this stated.

    Now IGNORING beastslaying (because, as i said before, it should NOT affect raid bosses) the difference with every other racial, be it alliance or horde, is within 0.5% DPS at MOST.

    Surely you have some simulations proving that berserking somehow gives 20% more DPS than blood fury? Mind linking them for all to see?

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    That horse was beaten to death like.. a million times already?

    Noone is saying beastslaying is balanced, IT IS NOT. PERIOD. Beastslaying should NOT work on raid bosses. Dunno how many times do you need this stated.

    Now IGNORING beastslaying (because, as i said before, it should NOT affect raid bosses) the difference with every other racial, be it alliance or horde, is within 0.5% DPS at MOST.

    Surely you have some simulations proving that berserking somehow gives 20% more DPS than blood fury? Mind linking them for all to see?
    The difference between an orc and any alliance race of shaman is massive. Just saying.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Now IGNORING beastslaying (because, as i said before, it should NOT affect raid bosses) the difference with every other racial, be it alliance or horde, is within 0.5% DPS at MOST.
    Not really. Depending on certain class/race combinations you are able to take advantage of CD stacking which leads to a higher differential.

    In a vacuum comparing two racials, sure, the difference might be .5%. But not in reality.

  14. #414
    Sorry but this makes no sense, world of logs has Alliance (not horde) as the highest DPS, if racials in horde were so "overpowered" as you claim then certainly the DPS meters would prove this, it does not.

    There is a certain flaw in your logic.. so to answer the question which as others have pointed out you did already... There is no problem that needs fixing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dysheki View Post
    Not really. Depending on certain class/race combinations you are able to take advantage of CD stacking which leads to a higher differential.

    In a vacuum comparing two racials, sure, the difference might be .5%. But not in reality.
    Yup.. in reality its not..

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    bosses. Dunno how many times do you need this stated.

    Now IGNORING beastslaying (because, as i said before, it should NOT affect raid bosses) the difference with every other racial, be it alliance or horde, is within 0.5% DPS at MOST.

    Surely you have some simulations proving that berserking somehow gives 20% more DPS than blood fury? Mind linking them for all to see?
    Blood Fury + Command is a .5% DPS increase in a prolonged Patchwerk simulation over Pandaren for me. Because it's an activated burst cooldown, it can be utilized during harsh enrage mechanics, bonus damage situations, tough add phases, etc. The bonus doesn't go away if I die either.

    Our lock's troll berserking gave him significantly more Agony (and everything else) ticks on Dark Animus this week on a shorter duration fight, increasing his DPS by over 12%. Even if your own classes's DPS isn't affected as much, your raid as a whole benefits greatly just from overpowered classes reaping the benefits.
    Last edited by kidsafe; 2013-09-05 at 09:43 PM.
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Blood Fury + Command is a .5% DPS increase in a prolonged Patchwerk simulation over Pandaren for me. Because it's an activated burst cooldown, it can be utilized during harsh enrage mechanics, bonus damage situations, tough add phases, etc. The bonus doesn't go away if I die either.

    Our lock's troll berserking gave him significantly more Agony (and everything else) ticks on Dark Animus this week on a shorter duration fight, increasing his DPS by over 12%. Even if your own classes's DPS isn't affected as much, your raid as a whole benefits greatly just from overpowered classes reaping the benefits.
    Assuming said Troll Warlock has enough gear to be sitting at the 13,737 Breakpoint, you're still making things up.

    Simply because Berserking at that much haste isn't enough to reach the next Agony breakpoint.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Blood Fury + Command is a .5% DPS increase in a prolonged Patchwerk simulation over Pandaren for me. Because it's an activated burst cooldown, it can be utilized during harsh enrage mechanics, bonus damage situations, tough add phases, etc. The bonus doesn't go away if I die either.

    Our lock's troll berserking gave him significantly more Agony (and everything else) ticks on Dark Animus this week on a shorter duration fight, increasing his DPS by over 12%. Even if your own classes's DPS isn't affected as much, your raid as a whole benefits greatly just from overpowered classes reaping the benefits.
    Although I agree that horde racials are stronger than alliance in terms of pve (beast slaying being the main culprit which should be removed imo), the example you provided about your warlock gaining 12% dps from going troll is not a good argument. There are many other factors that you probably do not take into account such as how well he played, ie, did he let his 10 stack agony drop off, etc. The difference between troll over orc is very small for affliction.

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