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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Romanthony View Post
    So would you prefer, everyone gets the same thing, and make all Races, clones of one another, and be boring and dull? There all different species, of course, theres gonna be differences
    The differences don't have to show in the combat performance. The races can have flavours benefits.

  2. #202
    Herald of the Titans serenka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Yes every man for himself is indeed very powerful but can you name any other alliance good racial compare to the horde?

    Basically human is the only race int he alliance that has indeed very good racials but the horde has so many like orcs, blood elves aoe silence, trolls haste, and goblins.

    Do I need to say more?
    we talking pvp or pve here? in pve ally racials do suck, but in pvp night elf and dwarf ones are pretty useful, i use them a lot!
    dragonmaw - EU

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Wokopoly View Post
    Why hasn't blizzard fixed the racial's so people can play what they want rather than what they need? Have they said anything about fixing this in the future? by no means will i quit the game because of this, but i'd enjoy it a whole lot more being able to play my faction of choice.
    Dwarf priest used to be the same in pve. Balance between factions is irrelevant.

  4. #204
    Trolls on beast bosses are OP.

    When I was choosing race (All contacts/friends are alliance in game) I chose Panda. 300, or 275 extra Int will always increase my dps over say a human or Nelf whether I'm playing good, bad, indifferent, die 5 seconds into the fight or am the last person standing on a Heroic kill.

    The whole 'Ye but you could have killed it if you played better' argument is irrelevant to racials. Or should I perhaps remove a gem as I'm going to play 0.05% better this evening.

    If someone has 5% better theoretical dps due to racials or gear and they play identically to how they would without the racials/gear then they will produce 5% more damage ! Simple.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by rijn dael View Post
    Dwarf priest used to be the same in pve. Balance between factions is irrelevant.
    How is it irrelevant? You're competing directly with other guilds that have access to a completely different set of racials. If anything I'd argue that individual racial balance is pretty much irrelevant. It's pretty easy to switch from say tauren to troll if you want to. Switching from dwarf to troll requires your entire guild to change factions, and you'll need to bring your alts as well if you want to keep being able to play them, which for a 25 man guild is thousands of dollars.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyropanda View Post
    ... I chose Panda. 300, or 275 extra Int will always increase my dps over say a human or Nelf whether I'm playing good, bad, indifferent, die 5 seconds into the fight or am the last person standing on a Heroic kill.
    If you die you lose your well fed buff, so in that case it definitely wouldn't always increase your DPS over another race. On balance for alliance the pandaren racial is certainly the strongest if you only count pure DPS (and assume you won't die), but you shouldn't overlook the secondary racial abilities. Darkflight can be quite valuable depending on what your class normally has access to, and every man for himself works on a fair number of PVE mechanics and the rep bonus can be a big time saver or allow you to get valor items faster than anyone else. Gift of the naaru usually isn't great in raids but it also isn't worthless, and if your class doesn't have significant self-healing it's very nice outside of raids.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    That's not what i said.

    I said that if you can't kill a boss 3-4 weeks before world first raiders did the problem is not "i'm alliance and they are horde", is that they play better than you, simple as that. Therefore "race changes are forced for pve" argument is stupid at best.
    Nobody said anything about forced race changes, just that more Horde racials give a power benefit vs. Alliance...a free benefit that has nothing to do with player skill, gear...just BAM - enjoy your extra DPS.

    I included the faction change comment b/c the typical response when pointing out these differences is for someone to chime in with "if they are so good, why not just faction transfer." I didn't said they were "forced" - just that racials are not close to balanced and that changing faction for raiding isn't something you on a whim.

  8. #208
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    While we are on that note. Thok a late tier beast boss + Tier boss WHOOOO troll racials.

    It's not even about racials anymore such a huge amount of the community is focused on Horde now it has the option of a larger player recruitment pool since people are more likely to seek similar guilds on same factions then pay for both.

    I really wish i could of remained Allaince but thats how shit is.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-08-29 at 08:15 PM.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    While we are on that note. Thok a late tier beast boss + Tier boss WHOOOO troll racials.

    It's not even about racials anymore such a huge amount of the community is focused on Horde now it has the option of a larger player recruitment pool since people are more likely to seek similar guilds on same factions then pay for both.

    I really wish i could of remained Allaince but thats how shit is.
    Well that's pretty retarded on Blizzard's part. Especially since Thok has a huge DPS race component.

  10. #210
    I'm not sure a single question was asked about racials in the dev interviews. Shame, really. It's clear at this point that we won't see any racial reform before 6.0. At least there's only 2 beast bosses, but the berserking racial is still miles ahead for Mages because all you have to do is macro it into AT. For Frost/Arcane, berserking is effectively 16 seconds instead of 10, and Fire gets a big boost to its Combusts. It's a real outlier, and this has been pointed out since beta. I sent a tweet to GC way back showing the simc data that it was 1800 DPS above Panda as Arcane.

    Heroic Alliance recruitment is getting worse by the week, and it's very difficult to convince a Horde to come back Alliance and pay 50 dollars for inferior racials. Being on Sargeras and being one of the few Alliance 25s left does give us more exposure, but it's very frustrating for even our own raiders to see a 1% wipe and know it would be a kill as Horde. It's going to become a taboo topic if it keeps being brought up.

    If I had to make a list of the top WoW raiding issues, racials would be at the very top. Input lag was #2 but glad to see that one fixed.
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2013-08-29 at 10:26 PM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Theatre View Post
    Blizzard nerfed Will of the Forsaken into the ground, supposedly for being over-powered in PvP. Then they gave the same ability to humans and nobody seemed to mind. Horde favoritism indeed.
    they aren't the same abilities.....
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  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    they aren't the same abilities.....
    Indeed, not the same.

    WotF only breaks charms and fears.

    Emfh also breaks stuns, snares, roots, polymorphs, disarms (not sure on this one) and silences (also not sure on this)

    Not the same.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Indeed, not the same.

    WotF only breaks charms and fears.

    Emfh also breaks stuns, snares, roots, polymorphs, disarms (not sure on this one) and silences (also not sure on this)

    Not the same.
    Emfh shares a full 2 minutes cooldown with the pvp trinket, wotf only shares a 30 seconds cooldown.
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  14. #214
    Emfh shares a full 2 minutes cooldown with the pvp trinket, wotf only shares a 30 seconds cooldown.
    Keep in mind, that WotF only works against several classes. When fighting others WotF is useless. So the racial is quite situational compared to Emfh. In addition it does not allow the Forsaken, to use the second trinket slot for an other trinket and are forced to stick with the insignia, while Humans don't have to stick to that item.

  15. #215
    Stood in the Fire Number Eighteen's Avatar
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    HORDE

    Tauren
    5% Health increase
    Herbalism +15 and faster
    Reduces nature dmg by 1%
    War Stomp - max 5 enemies, 2 second stun, within 8 yard. 0.5 sec cast, 2 min. cd

    Undead
    Attacks chance on hit Lifesteal, dealing Shadow damage and healing for the same amount
    Reduces shadow dmg by 1%
    Cannibalize - instant cast, HoT for 40-45% HP at most, only Undead or Humanoid targets
    WotF - Breaks charm, fear, sleep. 30 sec. CD shared with trinkets, instant cast, 2 min. cd

    Troll
    -15% movement impairing eff. duration
    1% expertise with ranged weapons
    5% bonus dmg to beasts
    10% bonus HP regen, 10% of non-combat regen during combat
    Berserking - Attack/Cast speed increased by 20% for 10 secs, instant, 2 min. CD

    Orc
    -15% stun duration
    1% expertise with axes/fist weapons
    2% bonus dmg from pets
    Bloodfury - Attack/Spell power increase depending on level, 15 secs, instant cast, 2 mins CD.

    Blood Elf
    +10 Enchanting
    Reduce arcane dmg by 1%
    Arcane Torrent - AOE 8 yard silence (2 sec), +6% mana or 15 energy/focus/rage/runic power, instant cast, 2 mins cd.

    Goblin
    +15 Alchemy
    best vendor discount
    +1% haste
    Rocket Jump - Minor blink, instant, 2 minute cd (shares with Rocket Barrage)
    Rocket Barrage - Minor dmg, instant, 2 minute cd (shares with Rocket Jump)
    Hobgoblin - Portable bank


    ALLIANCE

    Dwarf
    1% expertise with maces + ranged weapons
    Faster and improved archaeology
    Reduce frost dmg by 1%
    Finding treasure chests (tracking)
    Stoneform - Removes bleed, poison, disease + 10% dmg reduction for 8 secs, instant cast, 2 min. cd

    Human
    1% expertise with swords, maces.
    +10% rep gain
    +3% spirit
    Every Man for Himself - PvP trinket without stats, shares with other trinkets, instant cast, 2 mins cd.

    Night Elf
    Reduced chance to be seen while shadowmelded. (Rogue/Druid only)
    2% dodge chance
    Reduce nature dmg by 1%
    75% speed while dead
    Shadowmeld - minor stealth, gets you out of combat, lasts until moving or cancelled, Instant cast, 2 mins CD

    Gnome
    1% expertise with dagger and 1h sword
    +15 engineering
    Reduces arcane dmg by 1%
    +5% mana
    Escape Artist - Remove root effects or movement speed reduction, instant cast, 2 mins cd.

    Draenei
    +10 Jewelcrafting
    1% hit chance
    Reduces shadow dmg by 1%
    Gift of the Naaru - 20% heal over 15 secs, instant cast, 3 mins cd.

    Worgen
    1% crit
    Reduces shadow dmg by 1%
    +15 skinning, faster skinning
    Two Forms - Cosmetic change between Worgen/Human
    Running Wild - Free Mount
    Darkflight - sprint (40% movement speed) for 10 secs, instant cast, 2 mins cd.

    Not going over Pandaren since both factions can have those. I personally find both factions to be fairly balanced racial-wise. Except the Human trinket (could be turned into a second Will of the Forsaken if you ask me but for Alliance), or the other way around for Undead.

  16. #216
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solonar View Post
    HORDE



    Not going over Pandaren since both factions can have those. I personally find both factions to be fairly balanced racial-wise. Except the Human trinket (could be turned into a second Will of the Forsaken if you ask me but for Alliance), or the other way around for Undead.
    please explain the balances between the racials

    because these are not only getting the expertise racials that the best alliance dps races are getting they also get a on use ability that is a rather large dps increase, aswell as a 5% increase on some bosses, and the pet dmg incease whcih is obviously good for just hunters and locks but still.

    Troll
    because -15% movement impairing eff. duration
    1% expertise with ranged weapons
    5% bonus dmg to beasts
    10% bonus HP regen, 10% of non-combat regen during combat
    Berserking - Attack/Cast speed increased by 20% for 10 secs, instant, 2 min. CD

    Orc
    -15% stun duration
    1% expertise with axes/fist weapons
    2% bonus dmg from pets
    Bloodfury - Attack/Spell power increase depending on level, 15 secs, instant cast, 2 mins CD
    Last edited by cyqu; 2013-08-30 at 01:00 AM.
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  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Keep in mind, that WotF only works against several classes. When fighting others WotF is useless. So the racial is quite situational compared to Emfh. In addition it does not allow the Forsaken, to use the second trinket slot for an other trinket and are forced to stick with the insignia, while Humans don't have to stick to that item.
    Considering most comps nowadays have either a lock or a priest, that's another CC breaker. Of course, you don't have to wear an insigna as a human and can therefore use another damage trinket, but you're also getting only one cc breaker instead of two. What I was trying to actually get through in that post is that one isn't just a shafted version of another, but rather a similar but different ability.
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  18. #218
    ITT: Alliance players complaining that the Troll racial "Beastslaying" has finally shone in a raid sitation, despite being in the game since 2004 and being next to useless since then.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wokopoly View Post
    This has been a problem that's been known for a long time. I've been playing Horde for a while, but at first i was Alliance up until seeing the advantages the horde had. Since then, i have spent hundreds of dollars moving alts to a high populated server (Illidan) in order to progress in Heroic raiding at a very fast pace. But in the back of my head, i know i want to be Alliance, and i would much rather be on the other faction.

    Why hasn't blizzard fixed the racial's so people can play what they want rather than what they need? Have they said anything about fixing this in the future? by no means will i quit the game because of this, but i'd enjoy it a whole lot more being able to play my faction of choice.
    Please, the alliance racials are much better for pvp, particularly humans and night elves. I would love for them to make racials cosmetic only

  20. #220
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultramonkey View Post
    ITT: Alliance players complaining that the Troll racial "Beastslaying" has finally shone in a raid sitation, despite being in the game since 2004 and being next to useless since then.
    alliance has been complaining about orcs long before this tier, nice try though.
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