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  1. #361
    Are we really arguing Horde vs Alliance numbers?

    As it has been said 100,000 times, do we need to go get the number for Alliance Gladiator teams during Cata and MoP? The PvP racials aren't exactly balanced either.

    Racials aren't balanced, get over it. Blizzard doesn't care.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    So you agree that horde racials are better?
    So you agree that the better players are horde or feel the need to go horde?
    So you agree that recruiters from alliance guilds doing heroic raid content are having a tough time getting fresh blood?

    I think horde racials resulted in a cascade effect that ruined heroic raiding for alliance. That's pretty OP.
    Not only that, but it impacts those of us that aren't 13/13 heroic raiders in that there are less good players on our faction on many servers. It makes pugging tougher, because many good puggers are the alts of those bleeding edge progression raiders

  3. #363
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighto73 View Post
    Blood Elf checking in! I heard my racials were OP for PvE!!!

    AWWW YISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

    Going to faceroll some bosses with my AoE Silence!
    Indeed! /highfive

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  4. #364
    Why not mirror the racials? They're a little flavor but far from imbalanced, yet it's clear people have an issue with it. So why not just give mechanical copies of horde racials to the alliance and vice versa, just switch the names. Even it out.

    If anyone cries about that homogenizing the game, let me know, I'll personally slap them in the face!

  5. #365
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
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    So they acknowledge that the Horde racials are stronger in PvE but instead of balancing, they take the RaceChange$$.

    I see.

  6. #366
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    Correlation does not = Cause and Effect.

    More Horde guilds are killing shit.
    Did you think that maybe, more guilds that are horde are killing shit because those are the type of players that care more about raiding, so they go for better racials.
    Do you understand? It might not be that racials are OP, its that players who care enough to race change for racials, they are OP.
    thank you for helping us prove our point.
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  7. #367
    Mechagnome Sarthan's Avatar
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    Alliance have human racial for PvP which is the best racial in the game. Horde get PvE. Alliance get PvP. Looks fair to me.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    thank you for helping us prove our point.
    That what? Players are good?
    He's saying it's not the RACIALS that dramatically change the gameplay. It's the PLAYERS. The players who pay for those race changes are good enough that they probably don't need them, but would like to have them. It's why so many PvP teams use Humans instead of any other race; Having the PvP trinket proc as a racial essentially opens an entire trinket slot for whatever they'd like to have, which gives them a massive advantage in PvP. The Horde racials are no more OP than that. Removing stuns has limited use in PvE. But a small attack power proc/small haste boost doesn't really help much in PvP. A random proc of damage doesn't really do much for ANYTHING. 1% hit/expertise with certain weapons (Draenei for hit, Human/Dwarf for expertise with sword/mace respectively) makes room for another stat, which is a DPS increase in PvE.
    If the Horde racials are indeed better, it's not by much. They're far from OP.

  9. #369
    Brewmaster
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    The racials are OP, not only because of their mechanics, but because they initiated an ongoing exodus by skilled players to horde. If skilled players switch to horde, it entices their slightly less skilled friends to also switch. It has a snowball effect. Many of the best PVPers are horde, why do you think that's the case? Why do you think Reckful switched to horde when he knew it would gimp him mechanically in PVP? Because PVPers like him feel compelled to play for the faction with more skilled players.

    And FFS stop claiming 1% more expertise or hit is an advantage when it is most desirable to reforge as many of your weakest stat to hit/expertise as possible. In this case the best secondary stat racial for alliance is the worgen racial for any class who can be one. 1% crit is equivalent to 600 stat points while 1% hit/exp is only equivalent to 340. When your goal is to reforge into hit and/exp, you want the equivalent of more stat points, whatever they may be.

    Keep posting, it just proves how clueless you are.
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  10. #370
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    And FFS stop claiming 1% more expertise or hit is an advantage when it is most desirable to reforge as many of your weakest stat to hit/expertise as possible. In this case the best secondary stat racial for alliance is the worgen racial for any class who can be one. 1% crit is equivalent to 600 stat points while 1% hit/exp is only equivalent to 340. When your goal is to reforge into hit and/exp, you want the equivalent of more stat points, whatever they may be.

    Keep posting, it just proves how clueless you are.
    It's true though. The panda racial is also 300 main stat which early on in the expansion beat out most other racials. You always ignore the pandas even though they're available to you.

    I'm still not seeing anyone show how outside beastslaying (which out of the last 6 tiers has really only had an effect on the current - and can be avoided by blizzard simply by not using beast tag in raids), the alliance racials don't keep up with the horde racials.

    Trolls/Orcs? Worgen.
    Pandas? Pandas.
    Undead/Goblin? Draenei/Dwarf
    Blood Elves/Tauren? Human/Nelf/Gnome

    Is it because the horde are slightly weighted to the top end? Then we bring in Humans PvP racial.

    Beastslaying is an outlier not the norm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Wokopoly View Post
    This has been a problem that's been known for a long time. I've been playing Horde for a while, but at first i was Alliance up until seeing the advantages the horde had. Since then, i have spent hundreds of dollars moving alts to a high populated server (Illidan) in order to progress in Heroic raiding at a very fast pace. But in the back of my head, i know i want to be Alliance, and i would much rather be on the other faction.

    Why hasn't blizzard fixed the racial's so people can play what they want rather than what they need? Have they said anything about fixing this in the future? by no means will i quit the game because of this, but i'd enjoy it a whole lot more being able to play my faction of choice.
    Like some other said...

    Will of Forsaken got nerfed to the ground because it was overpowered.

    Now, Humans have a free PvP trinket as a racial.

    Horde Racials OP my A**

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    It's true though. The panda racial is also 300 main stat which early on in the expansion beat out most other racials. You always ignore the pandas even though they're available to you.

    I'm still not seeing anyone show how outside beastslaying (which out of the last 6 tiers has really only had an effect on the current - and can be avoided by blizzard simply by not using beast tag in raids), the alliance racials don't keep up with the horde racials.

    Trolls/Orcs? Worgen.
    Pandas? Pandas.
    Undead/Goblin? Draenei/Dwarf
    Blood Elves/Tauren? Human/Nelf/Gnome

    Is it because the horde are slightly weighted to the top end? Then we bring in Humans PvP racial.

    Beastslaying is an outlier not the norm.
    Berserking is the biggest outlier. 20% extra Haste on that opener Combustion or Doom beats every other passive racial.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I'm still not seeing anyone show how outside beastslaying (which out of the last 6 tiers has really only had an effect on the current - and can be avoided by blizzard simply by not using beast tag in raids), the alliance racials don't keep up with the horde racials.
    Beastslaying and Berserking are the outliers, yes. Orc is also particularly good for pet classes, but to be fair the worgen racial is also quite good for people who benefit significantly from crit.

    But the troll racials are the outliers, firstly for people who benefit from on-demand haste (compare a troll fire mage to a panda one for example), and secondly in the case of beast bosses. Worst case scenario is both of course. An equivalently geared troll fire mage on Thok next tier will do a lot more than an alliance one of any race.

    The fact that they are outliers (and they are, nobody is saying every horde racial is OP) doesn't alter the fact that they need to be changed, or we'll keep seeing competitive guilds faction change.

    As far as Midwinter is concerned, we're holding out for now but if there isn't a change to racials in 6.0 and they keep making beast bosses we'll have to strongly consider the horde option, which really is pretty dumb. We'd very much like to stay alliance.

  14. #374
    Ive said for a long time, racials should be removed and race should be purely cosmetic.

    I'd be all for having your race "mean" something, but when you have shitting little gnomes who are as strong and resilient as big hulking tauren, it's all cosmetic wool over the eyes nonsense anyway. Racial abilities in WOW are stupid.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  15. #375
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Except berserking was never a huge issue, UNTIL RPPM haste effects came into play. If you've actually looked at PTR you will know this is being changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Except berserking was never a huge issue, UNTIL RPPM haste effects came into play. If you've actually looked at PTR you will know this is being changed.
    You don't really understand the usefulness of cooldown stacking, be them haste (berserking) or attackpower/spellpower (blood fury), do you? They're averagely better in any given encounter and SEVERELY better if you need on-demand damage for short phases.

    Oh, and if you could address this post instead of dodging it every time it would be lovely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Now again, you never replied me when I asked you if racials are so much important to you that they warrant bringing yet another imbalance between players, so would you mind doing that now? Is a portable bank such as the one goblins have less flavour than the berserking racial of trolls?
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

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  17. #377
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    I never stated at any point racials are important, ever. I didn't realize it was aimed at me because I didn't realize you were strawmanning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I never stated at any point racials are important, ever. I didn't realize it was aimed at me because I didn't realize you were strawmanning.
    Don't you think that a model which only has fun racials/flavour ones instead of benefic ones would then be better to prevent all this mess? (even though the population is already skewed, so in that regard it's probably late)
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

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  19. #379
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Don't you think that a model which only has fun racials/flavour ones instead of benefic ones would then be better to prevent all this mess? (even though the population is already skewed, so in that regard it's probably late)
    I don't think it's worth the time to change, myself. The population is skewed to alliance still so I don't know what you're talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  20. #380
    Maybe the issue isn't the racials but the ridiculous emphasis put on the " world first race". Something very little people engage in for a very little time.

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