Did you not read what I just said or what you just linked?
The is atleast a 20% rage increase (Based on my protectors fight on sunday with 510 ilvl and my Horridon fight this week). You saying that is not a big deal is like me telling you that Paladins get Riposte and a 20% HP increase from the riposte crit and then say they still have "no value in offensive stats".Enrage now also triggers on critical hits from Devastate and Shield Slam.
Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? Warriors got buffed in EVERY aspect while Paladins and Monks got nothing but Nerfs.
I want to say that since blizzard seems to like the "fatal strike" mechanic from ra-den which I laugh at personally. Paragons of the klaxxi has AM style mechanic where each time you fail you get a nasty dot and after a certain amount of stacks it instantly wipes the raid. Blood dis will have fun with that boss as well.
With respect, if you're 3/12 I'm not sure it matters what class you play with. We have pallies / DK / Dru that tank for us on different fights. They all do the job perfectly well, its just that monks and pallies currently do it better. If you both switch to whatever the fotm is it's not going to suddenly let you kill bosses you hadn't before if the rest of your team are the ones that are letting you down.
Play the class you enjoy. ToT has been a mechanics tier with slight dps checks built in (adds on horridons door f.ex), tank dps won't make or break fights for you.
Yes. paladins are still going to be ahead in T16.
Paladin
Monk
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Warrior/DK/Druid
Are we playing the same game? How could someone have even the SLIGHTEST doubt that paladins were the best tank on every single encounter in ToT?
Who out-healed healers while tanking? Paladins
Who solo-tanked Durumu? Paladins
Who zerged DA? Paladins
Who solo-tanked Qon? Paladins
Who gets a 100% uptime on a 40% damage reduction buff, on top of a ~200k shield every ~4 seconds? Paladins
Unless the "Sacred Shield has been nerfed by 30%" turns into "Sacred Shield has been removed" protection paladins will still dominate EVERYWHERE. Not with such a huge margin, but still will.
SS most likely wont be used by most hc paladin currently looks like, EF is better atm. Double so with the seal of insight now healing everyone else at -70% of what it was before, even less self overhealing. Also 2 of your points come down to paladin solo tanking which was indeed overpowered, however right now doesnt look like theres anything in SoO that can be done with so those points are invailed when looking at next patch.
@ OP
If your that casual play what you enjoy, im a paladin tank currently at 8/13 who came back during ToT. I was asked to tank by guild im currently in who real life friend joined, i told them i would as long as it was paladin - this was before i even know any of the overpowered parts. Point is im heroic raider and i wouldnt change from what i like playing, no reason a casual raider should. You like DK stay DK.
Last edited by Teddybird; 2013-09-10 at 06:32 AM.
This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
Fifteen percent concentrated power of will
Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!
1. Monk guards were just as OP.
2. I solo tanked Durumu as a Warrior every week. Anyone could.
3. Monks can also do this...
4. Our monk solo tanked Qon.
5. Our monk will literally be immune to physical damage when Rune is up and it has a 25% uptime. Not to mention that Paladins did not have 100% uptime this patch, especially on progression.
Now lets see how many of those things are relevant in this patch.
1. They nerfed that so that wont ever happen.
2. Debuffs can not be BoPed or immuned off anymore.
3. Riposte Warriors are actually doing the same damage Paladins are in 5.4
4. Refer to #2
5. Paladins wont even be using SS next patch.
For BrM that vengeance bug blerb is actually roughly a 12% drop in our overall damage, with an additional 18% taken off keg smash. I would not be surprised if this comes out to be close to a 18% overall damage reduction for BrM. However our damage will still be excellent and stagger levels in next tier will trivialize some mechanics.
Thats not true at all.....
Due to the increased weapon damage scaling, single target dmg at aprox 200k AP will be +/- 1% of 5.3 dmg levels.
@Inthislzon
1. Logs pls? (After the Glyph Nerf.)
2. I solo tanked Durumu on our firstkill (Monk)
3. see #2
4. see #2
5. This might be somekind of true but on many fights the Toolkit of a Monk is way better than a Paladin....
Monks healad just as much, with the potential to heal even more if they sacrificed dps and specced chi torpedo. Just because monks guards doesnt show up on recount does not mean that healing does not exists.
Every class solo tanked durumu.
Every class zerged DA
Every class solo tanked Qon
You think paladins have 100% uptime on SotR? Please, paladins are not monks.
Who solo tanked stuff? Anyone with a paladin in the raid...
Who zerged DA? Anyone
Who got 100% sotr uptime? Noone
~200k shield every 4 seconds? Yep if you were vengeance capped. Happened on one fight.
As others said, monks were just as strong if not stronger for some fights like Lei Shen and Ra-Den. Provoke, 100% shuffle uptime and another long list made them immense this tier. Your "facts" are wrong.
1. While guard works better to reduce bursts of damage sacred shield is not the only heal on the paladin toolkit (and that's ignoring the raid CD monks don't have)
2. Please record it. With no paladins ofc, and without killing it on little to no time, as we are talking about progression here.
If you are gonna argue "everyone could with a paladin" then yes, WITH A PALADIN. Guess what? Paladins can tank it themselves, and have DS for yet another debuff dropping
3. There is a reason every top parse is done by a paladin, we are not talking about "impossible" but "better"
4. Read 2. With overgearing you could actually do it, provided you survive windstorm tho.
5. 100% physical damage converted to a dot != immune to physical damage. Immune to deaths? Yes, but staying at 1 HP since stagger can't kill you.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-40...?s=8296&e=8439
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z5...?s=8331&e=8473
Guess your paladins need to up their game?
Also, i'll repeat again, i'm NOT saying monks were not viable. I'm saying that given equal skill and gear paladin > monk. That doesn't mean that monks were not significantly better than everyone else tho.
despite the fact you cherry picked a top parse on a cheese fight that the characters in question outgear they show ~90% uptime. That's with a haste pot and bloodlust on a 140 second fight. I see we've turned the question of "whats good for the tier?" to "cherry pick an extreme outlier and extrapolate the class based on that"
I'm not disputing palas were / are very very good but the way you but forward examples leaves something to be desired.