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  1. #21
    The Patient
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    At the moment, our casual friends/family guild is running with a druid/dk tank combo (the dk being me) in the early ToT boss stages on normal (we only downed 3/12 due to pressing the pause button during the summer).

    Now for 5.4, the druid tank is switching to a monk tank, while I am considering to switch to a Paladin. Now, I truly love my dk and personally it would suck to change to pally, but that's what I'll do if dk's are truly behind the curve tank-wise (and the dpsing as tank ofc)

    Now, in this thread I've seen several rankings which others have said are bullsh*t, so now my concern is what truly is the correct ranking of performance/dps for the tanks.

    Should I switch from dk to pally, so I may have a chance at competing with our monk tank, or are the differences now with the different buffs/nerfs going on not that much of a problem anymore? In our guild the dps from the tanks definitively matters a lot, as the dps'ers are somewhat mixed with some who are truly amazing and some who are only decent.
    Still amazes me every single time how people are capable of mixing up the same words over and over again. There; Their; They're - Know; No; Now - Have; Of \\\\ ...coincidence? on purpose? saving letters/typing time? or some small creatures living in the internet, spending their time messing up entries? It will forever be an enigma...

  2. #22
    For casual raiding switching is not worth it. You'll get more out of actually enjoying your char than what is to gain swapping to an "OP char" that you dislike.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/#warrior

    Check again. Your only defensive change is 5 more rage on revenge and some tweaks to your healing tier. The rest of the crit related changes are in place to actually make the crit from riposte effect gameplay. They won't be enough to compensate for the fact that you have no value in offensive stats from a defensive standpoint. If you believe to the contrary, then you're the one who's 'high'.
    Enrage now also triggers on critical hits from Devastate and Shield Slam.
    Enrage now also triggers on critical hits from Devastate and Shield Slam.

    warriors are the ones getting the most buffs out of any tanking class this tier, just sayian

    dks are virtually unchanged DPS-wise (riposte is lel), and get a slight TDR buff through the SoB change (TDR is very useful yes yes)

    druids have huge buffs

    paladins and monks get shafted a tiny bit but not much
    Last edited by Mionelol; 2013-08-28 at 06:46 PM.

  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    warriors are the ones getting the most buffs out of any tanking class this tier
    Ya, warriors will be very strong i believe. Enrage changes + the crit thing, gonna be op
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/#warrior

    Check again. Your only defensive change is 5 more rage on revenge and some tweaks to your healing tier. The rest of the crit related changes are in place to actually make the crit from riposte effect gameplay. They won't be enough to compensate for the fact that you have no value in offensive stats from a defensive standpoint. If you believe to the contrary, then you're the one who's 'high'.
    Did you not read what I just said or what you just linked?
    Enrage now also triggers on critical hits from Devastate and Shield Slam.
    The is atleast a 20% rage increase (Based on my protectors fight on sunday with 510 ilvl and my Horridon fight this week). You saying that is not a big deal is like me telling you that Paladins get Riposte and a 20% HP increase from the riposte crit and then say they still have "no value in offensive stats".

    Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? Warriors got buffed in EVERY aspect while Paladins and Monks got nothing but Nerfs.

  6. #26
    I want to say that since blizzard seems to like the "fatal strike" mechanic from ra-den which I laugh at personally. Paragons of the klaxxi has AM style mechanic where each time you fail you get a nasty dot and after a certain amount of stacks it instantly wipes the raid. Blood dis will have fun with that boss as well.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Malakh View Post
    At the moment, our casual friends/family guild is running with a druid/dk tank combo (the dk being me) in the early ToT boss stages on normal (we only downed 3/12 due to pressing the pause button during the summer).

    Now for 5.4, the druid tank is switching to a monk tank, while I am considering to switch to a Paladin. Now, I truly love my dk and personally it would suck to change to pally, but that's what I'll do if dk's are truly behind the curve tank-wise (and the dpsing as tank ofc)

    Now, in this thread I've seen several rankings which others have said are bullsh*t, so now my concern is what truly is the correct ranking of performance/dps for the tanks.

    Should I switch from dk to pally, so I may have a chance at competing with our monk tank, or are the differences now with the different buffs/nerfs going on not that much of a problem anymore? In our guild the dps from the tanks definitively matters a lot, as the dps'ers are somewhat mixed with some who are truly amazing and some who are only decent.
    With respect, if you're 3/12 I'm not sure it matters what class you play with. We have pallies / DK / Dru that tank for us on different fights. They all do the job perfectly well, its just that monks and pallies currently do it better. If you both switch to whatever the fotm is it's not going to suddenly let you kill bosses you hadn't before if the rest of your team are the ones that are letting you down.

    Play the class you enjoy. ToT has been a mechanics tier with slight dps checks built in (adds on horridons door f.ex), tank dps won't make or break fights for you.

  8. #28
    Yes. paladins are still going to be ahead in T16.

    Paladin
    Monk
    .
    .
    .
    Warrior/DK/Druid

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by archkiller View Post
    Yes. paladins are still going to be ahead in T16.

    Paladin
    Monk
    .
    .
    .
    Warrior/DK/Druid
    They weren't even #1 this patch and they have gotten nothing but nerfs. Monks took a 18% nerf to Keg Smash and thats it. Monks will be #1.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    They weren't even #1 this patch
    Are we playing the same game? How could someone have even the SLIGHTEST doubt that paladins were the best tank on every single encounter in ToT?

    Who out-healed healers while tanking? Paladins
    Who solo-tanked Durumu? Paladins
    Who zerged DA? Paladins
    Who solo-tanked Qon? Paladins
    Who gets a 100% uptime on a 40% damage reduction buff, on top of a ~200k shield every ~4 seconds? Paladins

    Unless the "Sacred Shield has been nerfed by 30%" turns into "Sacred Shield has been removed" protection paladins will still dominate EVERYWHERE. Not with such a huge margin, but still will.

  11. #31
    Field Marshal Teddybird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Unless the "Sacred Shield has been nerfed by 30%" turns into "Sacred Shield has been removed" protection paladins will still dominate EVERYWHERE. Not with such a huge margin, but still will.
    SS most likely wont be used by most hc paladin currently looks like, EF is better atm. Double so with the seal of insight now healing everyone else at -70% of what it was before, even less self overhealing. Also 2 of your points come down to paladin solo tanking which was indeed overpowered, however right now doesnt look like theres anything in SoO that can be done with so those points are invailed when looking at next patch.


    @ OP
    If your that casual play what you enjoy, im a paladin tank currently at 8/13 who came back during ToT. I was asked to tank by guild im currently in who real life friend joined, i told them i would as long as it was paladin - this was before i even know any of the overpowered parts. Point is im heroic raider and i wouldnt change from what i like playing, no reason a casual raider should. You like DK stay DK.
    Last edited by Teddybird; 2013-09-10 at 06:32 AM.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Are we playing the same game? How could someone have even the SLIGHTEST doubt that paladins were the best tank on every single encounter in ToT?

    Who out-healed healers while tanking? Paladins
    Who solo-tanked Durumu? Paladins
    Who zerged DA? Paladins
    Who solo-tanked Qon? Paladins
    Who gets a 100% uptime on a 40% damage reduction buff, on top of a ~200k shield every ~4 seconds? Paladins

    Unless the "Sacred Shield has been nerfed by 30%" turns into "Sacred Shield has been removed" protection paladins will still dominate EVERYWHERE. Not with such a huge margin, but still will.
    1. Monk guards were just as OP.
    2. I solo tanked Durumu as a Warrior every week. Anyone could.
    3. Monks can also do this...
    4. Our monk solo tanked Qon.
    5. Our monk will literally be immune to physical damage when Rune is up and it has a 25% uptime. Not to mention that Paladins did not have 100% uptime this patch, especially on progression.

    Now lets see how many of those things are relevant in this patch.

    1. They nerfed that so that wont ever happen.
    2. Debuffs can not be BoPed or immuned off anymore.
    3. Riposte Warriors are actually doing the same damage Paladins are in 5.4
    4. Refer to #2
    5. Paladins wont even be using SS next patch.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    1. Monk guards were just as OP.
    2. I solo tanked Durumu as a Warrior every week. Anyone could.
    3. Monks can also do this...
    4. Our monk solo tanked Qon.
    5. Our monk will literally be immune to physical damage when Rune is up and it has a 25% uptime. Not to mention that Paladins did not have 100% uptime this patch, especially on progression.

    Now lets see how many of those things are relevant in this patch.

    1. They nerfed that so that wont ever happen.
    2. Debuffs can not be BoPed or immuned off anymore.
    3. Riposte Warriors are actually doing the same damage Paladins are in 5.4
    4. Refer to #2
    5. Paladins wont even be using SS next patch.
    For BrM that vengeance bug blerb is actually roughly a 12% drop in our overall damage, with an additional 18% taken off keg smash. I would not be surprised if this comes out to be close to a 18% overall damage reduction for BrM. However our damage will still be excellent and stagger levels in next tier will trivialize some mechanics.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by matthias9742 View Post
    For BrM that vengeance bug blerb is actually roughly a 12% drop in our overall damage, with an additional 18% taken off keg smash. I would not be surprised if this comes out to be close to a 18% overall damage reduction for BrM. However our damage will still be excellent and stagger levels in next tier will trivialize some mechanics.
    Thats not true at all.....
    Due to the increased weapon damage scaling, single target dmg at aprox 200k AP will be +/- 1% of 5.3 dmg levels.

    @Inthislzon
    1. Logs pls? (After the Glyph Nerf.)
    2. I solo tanked Durumu on our firstkill (Monk)
    3. see #2
    4. see #2
    5. This might be somekind of true but on many fights the Toolkit of a Monk is way better than a Paladin....

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Are we playing the same game? How could someone have even the SLIGHTEST doubt that paladins were the best tank on every single encounter in ToT?

    Who out-healed healers while tanking? Paladins
    Who solo-tanked Durumu? Paladins
    Who zerged DA? Paladins
    Who solo-tanked Qon? Paladins
    Who gets a 100% uptime on a 40% damage reduction buff, on top of a ~200k shield every ~4 seconds? Paladins

    Unless the "Sacred Shield has been nerfed by 30%" turns into "Sacred Shield has been removed" protection paladins will still dominate EVERYWHERE. Not with such a huge margin, but still will.
    Monks healad just as much, with the potential to heal even more if they sacrificed dps and specced chi torpedo. Just because monks guards doesnt show up on recount does not mean that healing does not exists.

    Every class solo tanked durumu.

    Every class zerged DA

    Every class solo tanked Qon

    You think paladins have 100% uptime on SotR? Please, paladins are not monks.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #36
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/#warrior

    Check again. Your only defensive change is 5 more rage on revenge and some tweaks to your healing tier. The rest of the crit related changes are in place to actually make the crit from riposte effect gameplay. They won't be enough to compensate for the fact that you have no value in offensive stats from a defensive standpoint. If you believe to the contrary, then you're the one who's 'high'.
    Think around the corner. You are forgetting, that rage equals into mitigation for us. Now that shieldslam and devestate trigger enrage and we get a load of crit, our mitigation will increase, too. We will be able to use SBarrier far more often.
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Who solo-tanked Durumu? Paladins
    Who zerged DA? Paladins
    Who solo-tanked Qon? Paladins
    Who gets a 100% uptime on a 40% damage reduction buff, on top of a ~200k shield every ~4 seconds? Paladins

    Unless the "Sacred Shield has been nerfed by 30%" turns into "Sacred Shield has been removed" protection paladins will still dominate EVERYWHERE. Not with such a huge margin, but still will.
    Who solo tanked stuff? Anyone with a paladin in the raid...

    Who zerged DA? Anyone

    Who got 100% sotr uptime? Noone

    ~200k shield every 4 seconds? Yep if you were vengeance capped. Happened on one fight.


    As others said, monks were just as strong if not stronger for some fights like Lei Shen and Ra-Den. Provoke, 100% shuffle uptime and another long list made them immense this tier. Your "facts" are wrong.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Who solo tanked stuff? Anyone with a paladin in the raid...

    Who zerged DA? Anyone

    Who got 100% sotr uptime? Noone

    ~200k shield every 4 seconds? Yep if you were vengeance capped. Happened on one fight.


    As others said, monks were just as strong if not stronger for some fights like Lei Shen and Ra-Den. Provoke, 100% shuffle uptime and another long list made them immense this tier. Your "facts" are wrong.
    Yes the spec I played was broken this tier. But so was his so it's okay and we should just ignore it.

    That's what this sounds like.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellkung View Post
    Yes the spec I played was broken this tier. But so was his so it's okay and we should just ignore it.

    That's what this sounds like.
    No, it's "Know what you're talking about before you speak"...but I realize that's asking too much in a thread focused on "OP paladins are OP"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellkung View Post
    Yes the spec I played was broken this tier. But so was his so it's okay and we should just ignore it.

    That's what this sounds like.
    Sounds like you have comprehension problems is all. I refuted his points on a line by line basis with facts.

    If you choose to interpret that as something it wasn't that's not my shortcoming.

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