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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animma View Post
    Do we really need another thread about this? People have been getting upset about pally tanks in loads of other places and it always devolves into a bunch of complaining between people who don't have all the facts. Pally tanks aren't the problem on live, BoP is. If you have any other spec of paladin then arguably the monk tank is just as good if not better.
    yeah right? lets get everyone riled up so we get a fresh dose of nerfs a couple weeks into this tier.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    1. Monk guards were just as OP.
    2. I solo tanked Durumu as a Warrior every week. Anyone could.
    3. Monks can also do this...
    4. Our monk solo tanked Qon.
    5. Our monk will literally be immune to physical damage when Rune is up and it has a 25% uptime. Not to mention that Paladins did not have 100% uptime this patch, especially on progression.
    1. While guard works better to reduce bursts of damage sacred shield is not the only heal on the paladin toolkit (and that's ignoring the raid CD monks don't have)
    2. Please record it. With no paladins ofc, and without killing it on little to no time, as we are talking about progression here.
    If you are gonna argue "everyone could with a paladin" then yes, WITH A PALADIN. Guess what? Paladins can tank it themselves, and have DS for yet another debuff dropping
    3. There is a reason every top parse is done by a paladin, we are not talking about "impossible" but "better"
    4. Read 2. With overgearing you could actually do it, provided you survive windstorm tho.
    5. 100% physical damage converted to a dot != immune to physical damage. Immune to deaths? Yes, but staying at 1 HP since stagger can't kill you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You think paladins have 100% uptime on SotR? Please, paladins are not monks.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-40...?s=8296&e=8439
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z5...?s=8331&e=8473

    Guess your paladins need to up their game?

    Also, i'll repeat again, i'm NOT saying monks were not viable. I'm saying that given equal skill and gear paladin > monk. That doesn't mean that monks were not significantly better than everyone else tho.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    despite the fact you cherry picked a top parse on a cheese fight that the characters in question outgear they show ~90% uptime. That's with a haste pot and bloodlust on a 140 second fight. I see we've turned the question of "whats good for the tier?" to "cherry pick an extreme outlier and extrapolate the class based on that"

    I'm not disputing palas were / are very very good but the way you but forward examples leaves something to be desired.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-40...?s=8296&e=8439
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z5...?s=8331&e=8473

    Guess your paladins need to up their game?

    Also, i'll repeat again, i'm NOT saying monks were not viable. I'm saying that given equal skill and gear paladin > monk. That doesn't mean that monks were not significantly better than everyone else tho.
    I'm not seeing 100% there

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  5. #45
    im sure we wont be. It seems like we are getting quite a few nerfs in 5.4 as far as I can tell. Although theres one new glyph that caught my eye for 5.4 tankage.
    I wash my hands until the water burns

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-40...?s=8296&e=8439
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z5...?s=8331&e=8473

    Guess your paladins need to up their game?

    Also, i'll repeat again, i'm NOT saying monks were not viable. I'm saying that given equal skill and gear paladin > monk. That doesn't mean that monks were not significantly better than everyone else tho.
    Those logs are about as relevant as linking
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=8269#Pandoraz
    and saying monks dps is OP.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Those logs are about as relevant as linking
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=8269#Pandoraz
    and saying monks dps is OP.
    How is linking a paladin with ~150 seconds of consecutive uptime of SotR not a proof that it can be done? Animus doesn't give a haste buff.

    Also yay for normal horridon logs, true endgame there.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    I'm not seeing 100% there
    Then you should pull animus and check if you can hit during the first seconds, as that's what it's missing.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    despite the fact you cherry picked a top parse on a cheese fight that the characters in question outgear they show ~90% uptime. That's with a haste pot and bloodlust on a 140 second fight. I see we've turned the question of "whats good for the tier?" to "cherry pick an extreme outlier and extrapolate the class based on that"

    I'm not disputing palas were / are very very good but the way you but forward examples leaves something to be desired.
    That's a proof that paladins CAN get to over 90% uptime on SotR, and it will only be easier with NEXT TIER, as that's what is being discussed here, NEXT TIER, not current tier.

    Do you think paladins are not getting another ~2k haste to more than compensate whatever haste pot?
    Last edited by Inthislzon; 2013-09-10 at 08:54 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    How is linking a paladin with ~150 seconds of consecutive uptime of SotR not a proof that it can be done? Animus doesn't give a haste buff.

    Also yay for normal horridon logs, true endgame there.



    Then you should pull animus and check if you can hit during the first seconds, as that's what it's missing.
    Guess I'm blind and it doesn't fall off a few times on the second report
    The point is, selecting a single fight isn't proof of anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    How is linking a paladin with ~150 seconds of consecutive uptime of SotR not a proof that it can be done? Animus doesn't give a haste buff.
    /facepalm

    Nice that you know the mechanics you try to speak off. The reason why they are able to reach those uptimes on that fight is due to the fights unique design which allows you to game the protection paladin 4p for a lot of holy power, which allows for almost 100% uptime on that short fight.

    Please, I encourage you to find anything close to 100% uptime on any other fight.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Please, I encourage you to find anything close to 100% uptime on any other fight.
    Monk Shuffle on Ra-den says hi.

    But you're right in all aspects, anyone arguing 100% uptime when it needed a very specific talent and glyph selection to pull off for only one possible fight is kidding themselves. that it meant it was achieveable all the time - reality was closer to 50-60%, roughly the same uptime defensively as other tanks.

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