View Poll Results: Which one?

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  • Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia

    10 15.38%
  • Prismatic Prison of Pride

    34 52.31%
  • Thok's Acid-Grooved Tooth

    28 43.08%
  • Dysmorphic Samophlange of Discontinuity

    30 46.15%
  • Other

    6 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll.
  1. #1

    Resto 5.4 trinket choice

    Hey folks

    Topic says it: Which trinkets are you looking for with 5.4?

  2. #2
    leaning towards the int spirit proc and probably that valor int and on demand spirit trinket. I like to run to regen trinkets.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    leaning towards the int spirit proc and probably that valor int and on demand spirit trinket. I like to run to regen trinkets.
    the spirit on demand one will not increase your mtt. Furthermore with spirit level we will be fairly high in normal mana regen and can afford other trinkets.

    Finally there is no way to beat the AMP trinket. It increases both throughput and regen.

  4. #4
    I think Dysmorphic Samophlange of Discontinuity is a clear BiS item. As far as the other trinket, it's a little more tricky. Prismatic Prison is going to be the clear BiS if you want to go for the 15,316 haste breakpoint, and its value scales considerably based on ilvl. Based on the following sample stats:

    Haste - 8000
    Spirit - 16,000
    Mastery - 6000 (including Might)

    The heroic version would give you:
    640 haste
    1280 spirit
    480 mastery
    A 2.6% overall throughput increase through crit heals (this number is based on 25% raid buffed spell crit).

    The 640 haste and 1280 Spirit would be stats that you could presumably convert into Crit, and we know that 1% Crit (600 Crit rating) is worth 1% extra raw throughput. That should allow you to reforge into 3.2% more Crit, and gain 3.2% more raw healing. The 480 mastery is probably about a 0.5% throughput increase. In total, the stat amplification portion of the Prismatic Prison napkin maths out to around a 6.3% throughput gain.

    Comparing it to the cleave/multi-strike trinkets is difficult because those trinkets have changed so much over the course of the PTR cycle that we don't have clear numbers on how much output they would be expected to add. The cleave/multistrike proc has to give at least a 6.3% output gain before they become worth using over the amp trinket, if you don't want to go for the 15,316 haste breakpoint.

    The other thing of course to consider is that they still haven't changed the stat amplification portion of the amp trinkets to not work when used for specs they aren't intended for. As a result, the healing amp trinket is going to be BiS for every DPS if that doesn't get changed - even with the INT proc not proccing for non healers. You can probably expect that the healing amp trinket will be given to DPS over healers by most loot councils, and that you will have to settle for the cleave/multistrike trinkets unless you manage to roll it. The incredible stupidity of it going live like that is beyond comprehension though.

  5. #5
    Both the cleave and the amp trinket are looking really nice. I wouldn't really go for the spirit proc trinket. Samophlange is worth 2211 spirit at 1 proc per minute and you can get that amount of spirit just as easily from other pieces. As a resto shaman, permanent spirit is always preferable over spirit procs as the procs are not boosted by MTT. 2211 avg spirit from a proc are in fact only worth the equivalent of 1877 'permanent' spirit for yourself (2211/ (1+16*2/180)). Additionally, Thok's will probably refresh AV and proc ELW, which certainly won't hurt after the HR changes.

  6. #6
    Samophange is 1.23 ppm, so the heroic version is worth ~2811 Spirit. Honestly, the static INT is as much the attractive component of that trinket as the Spirit proc. My concern with both Thok's and Nazgrim's trinkets is they are essentially double RNG - both on the INT proc and the cleave component. I don't know if I like that much randomness, given how tied to cooldowns our throughput is.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Someone mind doing the hard work, and actually posting the items, so I don't have to :P

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  8. #8
    From my testing on PTR, Samophlange seemed the best by far. As far as 2nd trinkets go I personally got the best results from using Nazgrim's but that second trinket spot is very much up for debate.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Irisel View Post
    Someone mind doing the hard work, and actually posting the items, so I don't have to :P
    Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia

    Prismatic Prison of Pride

    Thok's Acid Grooved Tooth

    Dysmorphic Samophlange of Discontinuity
    Last edited by Geekboy; 2013-09-10 at 02:53 AM.

  10. #10
    Based on looking through logs of Resto Shaman that got the Nazgrim and Thok's trinkets so far, it appears that they are giving 2%-3.5% output gains. Based on that (and assuming the output doesn't go up a lot in heroic with less overheal), I think it's pretty clear that neither is better than Prismatic Prison (which maths out to closer to a 6% output gain from the amp component).

    Samoplange is a little closer; the Spirit proc of the NM trinket is worth an average of 1803 Spirit. Assuming that you are able to reforge/regem that Spirit into other stats, you are likely to be able to get at least a 3% gain (given that 1% Crit=600 Crit rating). If the gains from Samophlange are close to the gains from the cleave/multistrike trinket (or even slightly below), I would personally take Samophlange because of the reliability that static INT gives you as compared to the random INT procs on the other trinkets.

    TLDR, I believe that Samophlange + Prismatic Prison are our BiS.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome
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    Is it still possible to use the double amp trinket, both the Prismatic Prison of Pride and the Purified Bindings of Immerseus? As then, I go with double through put. As they both increases spirit (with 14% total), that would net me with my current spirit +/- 2k spirit extra all the time. Which probably would increase as the gear gets better. Let alone with 14% haste and mastery, that is damn sexy.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  12. #12
    You can use double amp trinkets, but the INT proc is useless on the DPS one because it won't proc when in a healing spec. There is no way that it will be worthwhile; the INT proc works out to around 1800 INT on average, you would be giving up 4% throughput, and every one of the actual intended healing trinkets would be superior to the DPS amp trinket.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Based on looking through logs of Resto Shaman that got the Nazgrim and Thok's trinkets so far, it appears that they are giving 2%-3.5% output gains. Based on that (and assuming the output doesn't go up a lot in heroic with less overheal), I think it's pretty clear that neither is better than Prismatic Prison (which maths out to closer to a 6% output gain from the amp component).

    Samoplange is a little closer; the Spirit proc of the NM trinket is worth an average of 1803 Spirit. Assuming that you are able to reforge/regem that Spirit into other stats, you are likely to be able to get at least a 3% gain (given that 1% Crit=600 Crit rating). If the gains from Samophlange are close to the gains from the cleave/multistrike trinket (or even slightly below), I would personally take Samophlange because of the reliability that static INT gives you as compared to the random INT procs on the other trinkets.

    TLDR, I believe that Samophlange + Prismatic Prison are our BiS.
    did you just compare raw output gains to effective output gains?
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  14. #14
    So, here is my most recent math/research on trinkets. Based on the RSS addon, and using it across SoO NM and HM kills for the first 2 weeks, here are the average stat values required to add 1% additional effective output. For these calculations, I am assuming that the desired haste breakpoint (generally ~8916) is easily reachable (which it is at 540+ ilvl) and that the desired Spirit level (which is unlikely to exceed ~16,000) is also easily reachable. As a result, I am valuing Spirit and Haste from trinkets at a 1:1 level with Crit, because you generally will be moving Spirit and Haste past the desired soft caps that are gained from trinkets into Crit. If you are aiming for the 15,316 haste breakpoint (which I think is probably not worth it, at least before ~570 ilvl), these valuations will be off.

    Trinket stats required to add 1% output:
    INT - 450
    Crit (with Spirit value factored in) - 750
    Mastery - 1800
    Haste - 750
    Spirit - 750

    Using the ilvl 574 trinkets for value comparison, and using my current gear for valuation of the amp trinket.

    Prismatic Prison of Pride
    Intellect proc - 14,303 INT - 18% average uptime - 2575 effective INT = +5.7% throughput
    Spirit amp - +1196 Spirit - +1.6% throughput
    Mana Tide gain (personal only) from Spirit amp - +213 Spirit - +0.3% output
    Haste amp - +726 haste - +1.0% throughput
    Mastery amp - +516 mastery - +0.3% throughput
    Critical healing amp - assuming 25% raid buffed crit - +2.3% raw throughput
    Total throughput gain - 11.2%

    Dysmorphic Samophlange of Discontinuity
    +2383 INT - +5.3% throughput
    Spirit proc is an average of +14,300 Spirit during the 10 seconds it is up - 1.23 ppm - Average Spirit gain - 2932 - +3.9% throughput
    Total throughput gain - 9.2%

    Thok's Acid Grooved Tooth
    Intellect proc - 14,303 INT - 18% average uptime - 2575 effective INT = +5.7% throughput
    The Cleave proc needs to work out to adding 3.5% output before it beats Samophlange and 5.5% output before it beats Prismatic Prison

    Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia
    Intellect proc - 14,303 INT/10 seconds - 0.92 RPPM - 15.3% expected uptime - 2193 INT gain - +4.9% output
    The multistrike proc needs to add 4.3% additional output to beat Samohphlange and 6.3% additional output to beat Prismatic Prison

    I haven't seen many Shaman logs with the Thok's/Nagrim's trinkets, but the math suggests they need to add 3.5-4.3% output before beating Samophlange and 5.5%-6.3% output before beating Prismatic Prison. Our Monks have the Thok trinket and are capping at about 6% on low overheal heroic fights (i.e. Norushen) from it and closer to 2-3% on more spread/higher overheal fights. Neither trinket procs from HST or HTT, so both trinkets are ineffective on 30-45% of our output (and those water totem ticks would probably be the things that would give the largest gains if they procced from them). I think it's highly likely we would get significantly less gain from them than Monks, which makes me think it's highly unlikely that they will meet the threshold where they are worth using over Prismatic Prison/Samophlange.

    TLDR, I still think Prismatic Prison and Samophlange are likely our clear BiS.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire
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    I coined Thoks last week so I used it this week and the %-spread range on Thoks is odd to say the least. It goes all the way from like 0.x to about 9% but mostly it seems to hover around 2 % at best.

    On Galakras it did quite a lot (about 6M with only 27% going into overheal), but it cleaves onto the three npc:s and all the guardsmen (the took about 5M of that healing and the raid took 1M) so nothing much was ever wasted there but it wasn't exactlly all that helpful either. On Malkorok it might not be working properly as it did an amazing 0.3%; wonky shield interaction / logging interpretations perhaps? On most encounters it seems to be be alot of it (80+ %) going straight into overhealing and on Malkorok I first thought it might only have "worked" in phase2 but then I looked at alot of the other fights and that wasn't uncommon at all. Overall a very high amount of the healing cleaved seems to blow straight into overhealing.

    Perhaps it's a 10man issue and the range is to short (how far is "nearby" anyway) to find a person to cleave onto on some bosses; some of the rooms are just so large and people are spread about a bit etc. I'll probably keep using it until something better comes along but Prisma and Samo seems to be the trinkets to desire; If Thoks turned out weird then Nazgrims probably won't be any better at all.
    Last edited by looorg; 2013-09-26 at 12:24 AM.

  16. #16
    Just got Thok's tonight, Siegecrafter (10) was the only fight I was able to test it on and it did a whopping 0.6% of my healing. I'll update after next week when I get a better idea of how it performs throughout the raid. Logs are here: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11899&e=12170

  17. #17
    I got mine last week as well and so far it has been around 1.9-3.2% of my healing. Since it drops off Thok, I could only try it on normal 25man Blackfuse, Paragons and Garrosh so far. However, on all those fights, my CH was overhealing for 66%+ (going up to 85% on Paragons) and even my HST was doing 50%+ overhealing, because there's just not enough damage to heal on those fights. The trinket itself was at 89%+ overheal on all those fights, though, and I've seen full overheal procs for 750k on MSBT, so I'm convinced there's still a lot of room to grow.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Axelond's Avatar
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    I just got the blessing of the RNG gods yesterday upgrading both my 530 trinket to Prismatic Prison of Pride and warforged Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia. I went for the 15316 cap to get the HR cap and be quite sure I get 11 ticks on HST.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...3/?s=223&e=598

    Here is a log I did over my test run.

    Something weird is Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia had a 21.3% uptime. If anyone can explain that please do

  19. #19
    On average you'll have 9.2 seconds of uptime per minute which is 15.333%. Considering the way RPPM works 21.3% isn't odd, just a bit lucky.

  20. #20
    Actually, your Nazgrim's had 23.9% uptime (Mark of Salvation) whereas the Amp trinket had 21.3% uptime (Titanic Restoration). That's just below what you'd get for a 374s long fight if the amp trinket procced instantly after it's CD was up.

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