Do you think Low-level PVP could/should be more balanced?

[JimPaladin]

Making some Dwarves with a group of friends, I was doing some catching up to them (we're all sub level 15 at the moment), so I decided to do some Battlegrounds.

I knew super low level (10-20) BGs were terrible and the team with the most heirlooms always won by default, but outside of a couple of super low level twinks, I never did much of the beginning brackets of Battlegrounds until now and Good Lord, I have to question why they're even in the game.

I'm not trying to pose the argument that PvP at level 12 should be totally calculated and balanced (Especially in a game where the PvP is more or less shriveled and dead at this point and the devs expressively do not give a crap anymore), but with just a few small changes, it could be much funner for everyone and much more, well, legitimate in terms of an alternative leveling mechanism.

Just because it's low level doesn't mean there's any real excuse for it to be horribly unbalanced.

Anyways, what I was thinking was just-

Every single class should have a stun and an interrupt by level 10 (this is also standing as a PvE point as well, not just for PvP).

Heirlooms in the lowest level brackets should be nerfed hard, or stats should just be made static for everyone regardless of gear and level.

Healing in low level battlegrounds should be reduced by a large percentage. Healers, especially Priests (Oh god the bubbles), are the defacto 'low level pvpers'. They are NOT killable, especially by the many classes who don't get interrupts or stuns until 20+ or so, and on top of being unkillable, they also do nearly as much damage as anyone else.

These are just three core changes that would be very easy to implement, and they'd more or less make PvP at low levels fun and possible. The Stun/interrupt by level 10 is just specific to low levels, but the stat homogenization and nerf to healing could be kept until the 50s or even 60s, when twinking isn't quite so easy to do and healing becomes a little less powerful and game-breaking.

Those are just my thoughts. LET'S DISCUSS!!!!!

[Dreadlack]

They're having a hard enough time balancing pvp at 90, I think they should focus entirely on that first.

[JimPaladin]

They could quite obviously care less about level 90 pvp, and it's not like these changes would eat up hours of development time or anything.

[Sierra85]

Balance is a tricky word because it means different things to different people.

How do you maintain balance with such a wide array of variables, a team could randomly queue with 10 blood DK's in WSG. how do you balance that? etc

They're having a hard enough time balancing pvp at 90, I think they should focus entirely on that first.

end game pvp should be focused on primarily, once a happy medium is formed then go back and check out the lower brackets

[JimPaladin]

Balance is a tricky word because it means different things to different people.

How do you maintain balance with such a wide array of variables, a team could randomly queue with 10 blood DK's in WSG. how do you balance that? etc

Last time I checked, DKs don't exist at level 15. I could be wrong, though.

[Bluesftw]

waste of time , there are way more important areas of the game that need dev time than low lvl bg brackets which you outlevel in 15 minutes

[JimPaladin]

waste of time , there are way more important areas of the game that need dev time than low lvl bg brackets which you outlevel in 15 minutes

Like what? What is in such dire need that they can't take two minutes to adjust some things for low level pvp? Get better, valid points or get out.

[RicardoZ]

I think it would be fine if it weren't for heirlooms, and they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

[JimPaladin]

Well, even without Heirlooms you'd just have people twinking with blues they bought off the AH, and healers would still be overpowered. Power Word: Shield in particular is crazy, even with 'normal' low level gear on. It absorbs like 700 damage and stuff, by the time you dps it down, they already have it off cooldown.

[Antti]

It's a waste of time.

The game, both PvP and PvE, is balanced around maximum level (to the best of their ability).

It's fruitless to also balance the game during leveling because spells are the core component of what is balanced.

Different classes receive different vital spells at different levels.
Class X is over-powered at level 40 due to spell gained at level 40.
Class Y is over-powered at level 20 due to a completely imbalanced ability gained at level 20 that loses steam as other classes gain their abilities.
Etc.,

Ultimately, why care? low level content is blown through anyways. Giving classes all their abilities at level 1 won't happen either (due to it being new player unfriendly).

[Boogums]

They could quite obviously care less about level 90 pvp, and it's not like these changes would eat up hours of development time or anything.

I didn't know that you were so well versed in how development works. Wanna enlighten us lesser peons on their structural system and meeting formats?

[JimPaladin]

It's a waste of time.

The game, both PvP and PvE, is balanced around maximum level (to the best of their ability).

It's fruitless to also balance the game during leveling because spells are the core component of what is balanced.

Different classes receive different vital spells at different levels.
Class X is over-powered at level 40 due to spell gained at level 40.
Class Y is over-powered at level 20 due to a completely imbalanced ability gained at level 20 that loses steam as other classes gain their abilities.
Etc.,

Ultimately, why care? low level content is blown through anyways. Giving classes all their abilities at level 1 won't happen either (due to it being new player unfriendly).

Are WoW players really so fucking warped and twisted at this point that they seriously think "Oh it's okay to have completely defunct content until end game"? Is that what passes off as good design to people these days? That's so fucking sad; and I mean that. It's sad people have become so complacent and deluded to the whole "BALANCED AT END GAME" stuff.

I didn't know that you were so well versed in how development works. Wanna enlighten us lesser peons on their structural system and meeting formats?

Right, clearly I need to know precisely how Blizzard plans and implements different updates in order to know that these simple changes would only take a few moments to alter and then could be implemented in whichever patch Blizzard decides to ship them in.

[Jackmoves]

Most twinks are horrible shitters and while balance is up the walls you can still win the games despite being outgeared. Personally I've always enjoyed low level pvp, both while playing in gray/green items and in heirlooms.

It would also be a mission and a half to do properly without it wrecking balance(even more) at end level.

[TJ]

They're having a hard enough time balancing pvp at 90, I think they should focus entirely on that first.

Have to agree with this, they need to sort 90 PvP out before diverting any attention to something else.

[JimPaladin]

Most twinks are horrible shitters and while balance is up the walls you can still win the games despite being outgeared. Personally I've always enjoyed low level pvp, both while playing in gray/green items and in heirlooms.

It would also be a mission and a half to do properly without it wrecking balance(even more) at end level.

Okay now THIS is the worst post so far.

First of all. there's -no way- to win if you are outgeared. It's so low level that things like "Skill" or even "teamwork" hardly come into play at all. If you're outgeared, you're going to lose unless the opponent is just AFK or something. There's no debate.

Second of all, some minor change-arounds for low levels would do..... absolutely nothing to higher leveled pvp, especially end game. What the hell are you even talking about?

I realize low level pvp will never be balanced, and that even if you adjust 10-20, brackets like 30-60 will still have their own issues, but at least those brackets are much more playable. Quest/dungeon gear begins to match and even out-do heirloom stats and you have a much wider array of skills. I'm not asking for total balance across all sub 90 pvp, I'm asking for the 10-20 brackets to at least be playable.

[Jackmoves]

Okay now THIS is the worst post so far.

First of all. there's -no way- to win if you are outgeared. It's so low level that things like "Skill" or even "teamwork" hardly come into play at all. If you're outgeared, you're going to lose unless the opponent is just AFK or something. There's no debate.

Second of all, some minor change-arounds for low levels would do..... absolutely nothing to higher leveled pvp, especially end game. What the hell are you even talking about?

I realize low level pvp will never be balanced, and that even if you adjust 10-20, brackets like 30-60 will still have their own issues, but at least those brackets are much more playable. Quest/dungeon gear begins to match and even out-do heirloom stats and you have a much wider array of skills. I'm not asking for total balance across all sub 90 pvp, I'm asking for the 10-20 brackets to at least be playable.

Yes there is, because I've done it on several toons while leveling up, repeatedly. If you find it impossible look to yourself.
Everytime they've tried to balance low level PvP they fucked up massively with dire consequences.

[Temp name]

It could be more balanced, yes. Do I think they should waste time on it? Nope.

[JimPaladin]

Yes there is, because I've done it on several toons while leveling up, repeatedly. If you find it impossible look to yourself.
Everytime they've tried to balance low level PvP they fucked up massively with dire consequences.

Alright, since you seem to be some sort of low level sage, tell me.

I'm a Rogue with no heirlooms or gold, how do I kill a priest with heirlooms? How do I win? Be specific, detailed and concise or else you're just a liar who's full of shit.

Edit: To add to this post, they've pretty much -never- tried to balance low level pvp, and when they did, it was never 'fucked up massively' or 'with dire consequences'.

You know what? I take back my offer. Don't bother making up some blatant lie to explain to me how you can win without gear at low levels. You're so full of shit you'd make a fucking septic tank blush.

[sir-connor]

I think level 90 takes priority for sure, but I would like to see lower level PvP balanced more. Doesn't need to be totally balanced, just a bit more so than it is now. Hopefully unless Blizz decide to change the levelling experience again, they'd only need to go through and balance things once. Perhaps they could do something similar to the 496 ilvl cap in BGs to help even out gear differences at low level.

[panterarules]

Just like.. increase the base resil and healing debuff to what it is a max level, that's almost half the problems fixed right there.