Page 1 of 10
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Monks vs Raid Mechanics

    Visit the actually formatted version of this data here:
    http://www.wendigobrewing.com/tip/

    You can do convenient things you can't do here such as filter by spec(s), show or hide specific instances, filter by fight mode, and see a few more details pertaining to the bosses. This will be rapidly growing in features, including the handy one that formats the data there appropriately for an MMO-Champion forum post which will be pasted back here.

    Similar to the long standing threads with the same purpose, or the sections of various class guides throughout the Interwebs, I'm going to start and maintain a list of ways to use various monk abilities, spec abilities, talents, and glyphs to counter fight specific raid mechanics. I've been planning on this the entire expansion but keep not posting it until I finish it and make it perfect, and that's not working so here it is. I'll be updating this rapidly between now and for the first few weeks of 5.4, but it should stay pretty up to date after that as well. While some mechanics would be easier to discuss in each spec's threads, so many of our abilities overlap between specs, and we're so often called upon to play other specs, that having a central discussion of how to use our broad array of utility to counter fight mechanics seemed best.

    Caveats:
    • Contribute on Monks vs Raid Mechanics. In the interest of preventing the frequent occurrence of incorrect information on the list, please provide some corroboration in the form of logs or screen shots where if you're talking about something goofy. Please chime in to affirm thoughts on the mechanics. "Yeap I was able to Clash those adds like he said and it was awesome" after someone else mentions you can is helpful.
    • Please state raid difficulty and Raid size for anything that could be relevant, particularly for split-damage solo soaking, or absorbing or such. Avert harm in 25s will kill you places where it's a good idea in 10s. Solo soaking something that does 4 million split damage in 10 man is fine, but that same ability probably does 8 million in 25 man because you're supposed to be splitting it with twice as many people.
    • An attempt will be made to keep these useful, rather than possible. For instance it is theoretically possible to use Touch of death in nearly every encounter, while it is very doable and useful for a Brm Monk to use touch of death on the Beast of Nightmare mobs on Twin Consorts.
      I'm going to attempt not to say stuff like "if your group is stacked up and having trouble with healing, getting chi burst is a good idea to help out" on every fight, but a few that especially lend themselves to it may slip through.
    • In cases of whether an ability is a good idea, or not worth the effort / performance loss, I'll leave that to the reader's judgment unless its pretty overwhelming. In cases where an ability can be used on one of 2 different things, or mutually exclusive talents can be chosen, I'll present both sides.
    • Every boss should answer stuff like: Can i disarm anything cool, can i stun anything cool, can i clash anything at all, can I interrupt anything? Is zen med still terrible?


    Spec Version Fight Mechanic Player Ability Tip
    Siege of Orgrimmar
    SoO Trash
    BrM All


    Clash
    Clash has actually been amazing for tanking trash. I spent some time prior to the patch really trying to use it everywhere possible, even if not useful to get used to it and it paid off.
    BrM MW WW All
    145550

    Spear Hand Strike
    You need to interrupt the mind spike the shadowmages do because it almost 1 shots people, and preferably their disorient too.
    Immerseus
    BrM MW WW All
    143309

    Transcendence
    You can port through the whirl beam
    WW MW BrM All
    143295

    Transcendence
    You can port out of the Sha Bolt's collapsing towards the center as P1 ends
    MW BrM WW All
    71603

    Disable
    Use disable to slow and/or root the adds, but they die so fast i'm not sure if is worth it
    MW BrM WW All
    71603

    Leg Sweep
    Adds are stunnable. Up to you if you want to Leg sweep a group of 2 for 5 seconds, or maybe try and ox wave 2 sets, but that seems error prone.
    WW BrM MW All
    71603

    Touch of Death
    Do not forget to use Touch of Death on the adds
    WW BrM MW All
    71604

    Healing Sphere
    Healing Spheres actually work on an NPC!
    MW All
    71604

    Revival
    Revival worked on the PTR, Works on live, but shouldn't work on live per GC
    MW All
    143459

    Eminence
    Do not forget to double dip on damage and healing buffs from the adds if eminence works, but rumor has it that it won't
    BrM All
    71603

    Clash
    Use Clash to grip and aoe stun adds
    BrM WW All
    71604

    Chi Torpedo
    Chi Torpedo Heals the adds, but it's pretty underwhelming unless you can cleave damage and healing on a bunch
    WW BrM All
    71604


    Glyph of Targetted Expulsion sounds good, but when the chi is pretty meaningless for a WW/BrM, Healing Spheres just to more healing than an Expel Harm, cut in 1/2. The only way the glyph and EH would pull ahead would be counting the damage as useful too, which is a stretch, especially when other glyphs are good.
    MW All
    71604

    Spinning Crane Kick
    As of the last report, SCK healed the adds fairly effectively
    WW All
    71603

    Flying Serpent Kick
    FSK Slow should work on the adds too
    WW MW BrM All
    71603

    Chi Burst
    Make sure chi burst is up to do a big healing and damage cleave on adds at the start of phase 2
    BrM All
    143436


    Probably glyph guard for better absorbs on the breath, but not really needed.
    MW All
    71604

    Mastery: Gift of the Serpent
    It heals add
    MW All
    71604


    Multistrike and Cleave trinkets work on the Contaminated puddles
    Fallen Protectors
    BrM All
    144396

    Nimble Brew
    You can Nimble Brew the stun that Stonetoe does on the tank, but you still can't run into the raid as he retargets his aoe so it's not too useful really. maybe save it for if someone else fails and is standing next to you.
    BrM BrM All
    1776

    Nimble Brew
    You can't trinket the gouge, have to just not fail to face away
    WW MW BrM All
    143423

    Spear Hand Strike
    Interrupt Sha Sear when its on your nice, but always a little slow to move raid member. You know who I'm talking about.
    BrM MW WW All
    143434

    Diffuse Magic
    Diffuse Magic SW:Bane off before the first tick if your raid needs help with dispells
    MW All
    143434

    Detox
    Detox Shadow word: Bane before the first tick
    WW MW BrM All


    Grapple Weapon
    Nothing appears disarmable
    BrM MW WW All


    Disable
    Can you stun, slow, or root any adds?
    BrM MW WW All
    143808

    Zen Meditation
    Can you Zen Med and get Mark of Anguish to go on you?
    WW MW BrM All
    143962

    Zen Meditation
    Can you live through Embodied Sorrow's Inferno strike (meteor cleave) solo with zen med and/or Diffuse Magic? (could be a different answer for 10/25 because a big cleave obviously has to do more on 25 man to be as threatening)
    BrM All
    143210

    Elusive Brew
    Dodging should prevent damage from instant poison so save Elusive Brew for during that.
    BrM All
    143959

    Clash
    Can't Clash Embodied Misery after it knocks you back
    WW All


    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    VERY good fight for SEF. Leave SEF on the two bosses that are not being dealt with currently and only switch them around when you target switch to a new boss.
    WW All
    143808


    FoF glyph can be used as a CD for mark of anguish if needed.
    BrM WW All


    Rushing Jade Wind
    RJW seems like the T90 of choice for tanking and damaging. There's 3 or more targets the whole time. Damage on them is useful, though single target damage is still slightly more important. If RJW ever isn't the best for this fight, it needs fixed (again).
    WW MW BrM All
    145631

    Spear Hand Strike
    Interrupt Corruption Chain, it wrecks people
    Norushen
    WW MW BrM All


    Leg Sweep
    Stuns work on the mobs in the trial
    BrM All
    144657

    Guard
    Guard won't absorb the damage
    BrM All
    144657

    Elusive Brew
    Unlike most boss specials, you can dodge PC, so EB it. This is basically here just to add weight to avoidance.
    WW MW BrM All
    145226

    Transcendence
    You can port through the beam safely as it twirls
    BrM MW WW All


    Touch of Death
    Don't forget to use touch of death during the trials since there aren't other people killing it faster than you can get ToD to activate
    WW All
    72263

    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    SEF the small adds during the trial while you burn the big guy
    BrM MW WW All


    Zen Meditation
    See if we can zen med redirect any of the add's spells
    BrM All
    145214

    Guard
    Unleashed Anger starts being dangerous at about 8 stacks if you aren't purified. It's worth it to Guard etc. before then, but at 8 is when I'd suggest start treating it seriously and making sure that you have something up every time.
    BrM All
    144649

    Guard
    "Damage from Titanic Corruption's Hurl Corruption ability can now be absorbed by damage absorption shields." - blue post
    BrM All
    144649

    Spear Hand Strike
    Interrupt Hurl Corruption
    BrM All
    144654

    Guard
    Nothing to do other than absorb it or heal it
    WW MW BrM All


    Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger
    Xuen fixed 2012-09-19. He wasn't using Tiger Lightning before that.
    BrM All
    144654

    Zen Meditation
    Zen med the burst of corruption for a second to 90% stop the damage
    BrM MW WW All
    145226

    Diffuse Magic
    You can Diffuse Magic thru the Blind Hatred on Norushen
    WW MW BrM All
    145226


    You can use zen med to get through the beam rather than running all the way around. Technically you don't actually need to use the glyph, but sort of would defeat the purpose.
    BrM MW WW All
    145226


    You can use zen med to get through the beam rather than running all the way around. Technically you don't actually need to use the glyph, but sort of would defeat the purpose.
    WW All
    72276

    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    SEF Clones do full damage to the boss, so focusing adds with a clone on the boss works really well.
    Sha of Pride
    WW MW BrM All
    71946

    Chi Burst
    Adds spawn on a 30 second timer so chi burst is amazing. Gorefiend's grasp them first.
    BrM MW WW All
    71946

    Leg Sweep
    Stun the adds
    BrM MW WW All
    144351

    Diffuse Magic
    Use diffuse magic to dispell yourself, doesn't give pride. (Unsure if the boss hits hard enough for DH to be better for BrM or if tanks can even get the debuff)
    BrM All
    71946

    Clash
    You can clash the adds
    WW MW BrM All
    144358

    Roll
    It is actually important to not to pull agro, when you have the debuff, can roll out of melee range if desperate.
    WW MW BrM All
    144351

    Zen Meditation
    Zen med won't soak the debuffs onto you anymore
    BrM MW WW All
    144574

    Nimble Brew
    check if you can trinket the prison
    WW MW BrM All
    71946

    Ring of Peace
    See if RoP prevents the adds from casting, as it lasts longer and would let stuns clear DR
    WW All
    144574

    Transcendence
    Place your Trans near the prison you're going to help clear, port there, then FSK back to the boss.
    BrM All
    144574


    Not really a monk specific thing, but felt it was worth mentioning that a tank can go stand on one of the close prison locks while still tanking the boss, it's in range.
    BrM MW WW All
    144379

    Spear Hand Strike
    Interrupt Mocking Blast. More pride on people is bad, and it will help it run into melee.
    BrM All
    71946

    Provoke
    The active sha tank should taunt the big add into melee as soon as it gets interrupted to get it in fast. If you're not tanking, make sure you're not going to be unable to taunt when Wounded Pride happens, because that's more important.
    Galakras
    BrM MW WW All


    Ring of Peace
    RoP is probably the best just because it lasts the longest and helps group things, instead of annoyingly stunning things in different places. If you have a few DKs for aoe grips, Leg sweep might win out.
    WW MW BrM All


    Dampen Harm
    There's no really distinct big thing to Diffuse as the Flames hits everyone, so 3 halved hits is probably better
    BrM All


    Rushing Jade Wind
    New RJW seems like the best combination of damage, and allowing EB generation to keep happening. Could certainly make a case for any of the talents though.
    MW All


    Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger
    Xuen with his cleave is probably the best for MW as people will be too spread out to make good use of Chi Torp, and RJW still sort of blows for MW.
    BrM All


    Clash
    Clash works on adds
    WW MW BrM All
    143474

    Jab
    Totems and such have very low health, perfect for a quick jab, even if you're a healer
    BrM MW WW All
    143474

    Crackling Jade Lighning
    Immune to CJL because it's a debuff or something
    WW MW BrM All
    147683

    Nimble Brew
    You can clear Kugruk's Thunderclap slow stacks with nimble brew
    BrM MW WW All
    147683

    Tiger's Lust
    If nimble brew works, Tiger's Lust should too
    BrM All
    146902

    Elusive Brew
    Can you EB dodge stacks from Korgra's stacking dot?
    WW MW BrM All
    147029

    Roll
    You can take a few hits from Flames of Galakrond by rolling to catch up with it, but not that useful
    BrM MW WW All


    Transcendence
    Can trans back up to the top of the tower if you fall
    WW All
    72353

    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    You can SEF the archers at the top of the tower while you kill the elites
    WW BrM All


    Rushing Jade Wind
    RJW works well for cleaving lots of things while focusing on some
    BrM MW WW All


    Fen-Yu, Fury of Xuen
    Because absorbing 1 killing blow is much less useful when aoe tanking, and cleaving is more useful, I'd give the dps cape a try here. Will update.
    BrM All


    Healing Elixirs
    With nothing notable to DH or DM, Healing Elixirs provides a decent total of healing throughout the fight.
    BrM All
    146899


    Glyphed Breath of Fire should interrupt everything in melee, but most importantly the Fractures on Varian.
    BrM All
    72945

    Clash
    Clash is great for pulling the bonecrushers off Jaina and Wrynn
    BrM MW WW All
    146757

    Spear Hand Strike
    Interrupt the Shaman chain heal, it's ridiculously powerful
    Iron Juggernaut
    BrM MW WW 25 Man Normal, 10 Man Normal, Flex Raid, Looking for Raid
    144459

    Zen Meditation
    In normal, can Zen Med Laser Burn, not heroic. Not sure if that is just to lower the damage or if you can grounding totem it on to you.
    MW WW All
    72050

    Dampen Harm
    Dampen harm makes it pretty easy to eat mines.
    BrM All
    72050

    Mastery: Elusive Brawler
    Stagger appears to trivialize the damage from the crawler mines, where most tanks use a CD to be safe
    BrM All
    144218

    Vengeance
    Does borer drill cause vengeance? Would be great to guard and eat that while you're clearing flame vent stacks.
    WW MW BrM All
    144918

    Transcendence
    Trans to kite cutter laser
    BrM MW WW All
    144918

    Tiger's Lust
    tiger's lust to help others kite cutter laser
    WW MW BrM All
    72050

    Zen Meditation
    You can't click the mines from inside a zen med channel to prevent the damage
    BrM All
    144464


    With the only notable damage on the tank being from flame vents, no reason not to glyph guard.
    BrM All
    144464

    Diffuse Magic
    Only burst damage is from flame vents.
    BrM MW WW All
    144485


    You can use Goblin Glider to jump foward as shock blast knocks you back.
    BrM All
    72050


    The Vial of Living Corruption is really nice for the shorter Guard CD for breaths and mines.
    WW All
    72050

    Touch of Karma
    Use touch of Karma to soak a Crawler Mine
    Kor'Kron Dark Shaman
    BrM MW WW All


    Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger
    Xuen is great for both damage and healing because he'll be cleaving for his full duration.
    WW MW BrM All
    71825

    Charging Ox Wave
    Can't stun the slimes
    BrM All
    71825

    Dizzying Haze
    Could kite the foul slimes the whole time if you want but might get ugly with tornadoes and they should die pretty easily with our sweet ranged aoe threat.
    BrM All
    71825

    Chi Burst
    With New more usable chi burst and keg tossing, threat should be great on these, stay away from them.
    BrM MW WW All
    144215

    Grapple Weapon
    Grapple Weapon works on both bosses even on live. Unsure if it will prevent froststorm strike
    BrM MW WW All
    144215

    Ring of Peace
    Can disarm both bosses, not sure if it prevents anything, or just lowers damage in general and gives you your 5% buff
    WW All
    71858

    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    SEF at the start put one on the boss your not going to be on all fight (most likely female shaman boss) and the dog you won't be attacking at the start of the fight. Kill your dog and then move onto the boss your assigned to (mostly likely the male shaman). As long as you are not beyong 40 yards away from your SEF, your SEF add will stay on the Female Shaman all fight.
    BrM MW WW All
    144089

    Zen Meditation
    toxic mist - goes through immunities, not sure about zen med or diffuse magic
    General Nazgrim
    WW MW BrM All
    0

    Ring of Peace
    Stuns and Disarms work on adds
    BrM All
    143494

    Elusive Brew
    Sunder is avoidable, so many sure to have EB up for it.
    BrM MW WW All
    71515

    Grapple Weapon
    works on adds
    WW All


    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    Place your SEF onto the Warrior, rogue (once your priests uses Holy Nova to reveal the rogue), while you either stay on the boss or switch to the Mage and/or Shaman. Even using SEF on the Shaman totems is useful since only range can really deal with it and they have A LOT of health.
    BrM All


    Clash
    Clash doesn't appear to work
    WW All
    73939

    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    You can put SEF on Nazgrim safely while he's in defensive stance.
    WW MW BrM All
    143473

    Spear Hand Strike
    Very important to interrupt chain heal.
    BrM MW WW All
    143432

    Spear Hand Strike
    Interupt the mage add, but not nearly as important as the shaman add. On heroic this might actually be threatening.
    WW MW BrM All
    143431

    Spear Hand Strike
    Not as important to interrupt as the shaman, but it helps
    Molkorok
    MW WW BrM All
    142980

    Zen Meditation
    Can soak pools with zen med, even though immunities are bad
    WW MW All
    142980

    Dampen Harm
    Dampen Harm is definitely better than Diffuse Magic for soaking pools since it won't proc on anything other than pools, letting you get more than 1 with it.
    BrM All
    142980

    Guard
    I would avoid soaking pools unless you're sure no one is in it, or you have guard up. A pool plus a couple melees will eat through your Miasma shield.
    MW WW BrM All
    142861

    Expel Harm
    Expel Harm seems to do no damage
    BrM All
    142815

    Vengeance
    I'm not sure I would say it's a good idea, sort of depends on your raid, but you should be able to use DH or Zen med and live through Arcing Smash. Unsure if it gives vengeance. Not a lot of other great times to use Zen Med.
    BrM All
    142990

    Elusive Brew
    You can dodge Fatal strike, so try to max EB uptime while tanking.
    BrM All
    71454

    Qian-Le, Courage of Niuzao
    He hits really hard, especially in Hard Mode
    BrM All
    142879

    Fortifying Brew
    stack some mastery, get the <a href="http://www.wowhead.com/item=102306">vial of living corruption</a> (somewhat tricky without this trinket, the blood rages are exactly 2:47 apart), and just solo tank the blood rage portion. Especially with 4pT16, healers can just dps and dispel during this portion, and the lack of movement for the rest of your raid will contribute far more raid dps than any crit gearing you bring. PS: 1.1 million vengeance by the time you're done = super fun for the next 20 seconds.
    The Spoils of Pandaria
    BrM All


    Leg Sweep
    adds are stunnable, leg sweep should usually be the best for tanks
    BrM MW WW All


    Grapple Weapon
    Grapple Weapon works on the Mogu side. Unsure if it doesn't on the other side, or if that just wasn't tested.
    BrM All


    Clash
    Sorry, clash doesn't work
    WW All


    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    Leave an SEF on the big adds while you AOE the small adds
    MW WW All
    145993


    Can you use Zen Med and click the extra action button without ZM breaking for the sticky bombs? If not, you can drop them all in the same place and open up some real estate.
    BrM All


    Fen-Yu, Fury of Xuen
    Lots of stuff to cleave, no particularly threatening mechanics to kill you, tank damage done pretty high.
    MW WW All


    Ring of Peace
    Most of the adds are stunnable and disarmable, but you'll annoy your tank less by going for ring of peace. The statues are irrelevant to disarm btw.
    WW MW BrM All
    144922

    Spear Hand Strike
    Animated Stone Mogu cast Harden Flesh which is really annoying
    BrM MW WW All
    144923

    Spear Hand Strike
    Animated Stone Mogu cast this which does damage, worth your 0 globals to stop, but not a big deal
    WW MW BrM All
    145230

    Spear Hand Strike
    Mogu Shadow Ritualists from Sout (medium) Mogu crates cast Forbidden Magic which does a fair bit per tick, but not a huge deal
    Thok the Bloodthirsty
    BrM MW WW All
    73195

    Grapple Weapon
    Disarms work on the Jailer
    WW MW BrM All
    73195

    Ring of Peace
    Disarms work on the Jailer
    BrM MW WW All
    133042

    Transcendence
    Trans to escape if you are doing a later kite.
    BrM All
    133042


    Pretty sure fixate can only target the tank if they're the last person alive
    WW All


    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    Leave an SEF on the boss during transition phase while you deal with the Jailor. Don't have to worry about fleeing this way
    BrM MW WW All
    133042


    Tiger's lust seems nice for kiting, but pretty sure celerity to buff chi torpedo is even better
    WW MW BrM All
    143343

    Chi Torpedo
    Use chi torp (if brm, while not tanking) with celerity to help with raid healing from Deafening Screech
    BrM MW WW All
    143343

    Chi Burst
    Use chi burst for the healing, don't get spell locked.
    BrM All
    143791

    Brewing: Elusive Brew
    Armor debuff, not very threatening to monks
    BrM All
    143343

    Avert Harm
    avert harm with zen med and guard a screech. You'll get spell locked so make sure you use chi burst before that
    BrM All
    143426

    Vengeance
    stand in front of the boss even while you're not tanking for further tank debuffs (works best in the first phase 1.) You take more damage = more vengeance, and with decent amounts of mastery + fort brew, you're more or less still unkillable. Spikes of around 1 mil dps for the first couple of minutes is not unheard of.
    Siegecrafter Blackfuse
    WW All
    71591

    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    Based on how easily our tanks killed the Shredders with just a bit of help from ranged after it did Death From Above, no reason to gimp yourself with using SEF on the shredders.
    BrM All
    142232

    Transcendence
    Either use trans to port back to him right after he lands, or roll, but get there fast to tear him up
    BrM All
    142232

    Chi Wave
    Use chi wave while running out for Death from above, the bounces will get the damage boost on him but not use a global during DFA.
    BrM All
    143385

    Guard
    Use Guard for the second Electrostatic Charge, then the 4th as well if your other tank is slow
    BrM All
    143385

    Dampen Harm
    Use DH (or DM if you prefer. I'd rather take 3 1/2 hits than 1 0 hit, but can argue either way) on the 3rd Electrostatic charge
    BrM All
    143385


    Make sure you're getting a few stacks, then taunt swapping as the add is about to spawn rather than just chilling waiting for the add at the start.
    BrM All
    143385

    Capacitive Primal Diamond
    If you're short at all on damage killing your add, good fight for the Capacitive Meta or Tiger Cape. Up to you whether you'd rather give up a semi random 20% that would help with the bosses haste enrage thing or give up a get out of jail free card on failing to CD an Electrostatic Charge for about the same damage boost. Or use both and make sure you don't screw up CDs.
    BrM All
    143385

    Fen-Yu, Fury of Xuen
    If you're short at all on damage killing your add, good fight for the Capacitive Meta or Tiger Cape. Up to you whether you'd rather give up a semi random 20% that would help with the bosses haste enrage thing or give up a get out of jail free card on failing to CD an Electrostatic Charge for about the same damage boost. Or use both and make sure you don't screw up CDs.
    BrM All
    116982

    Elusive Brew
    EB his frenzy when an add dies. Nothing is better for avoidance buffs than tons of attacks.
    BrM All
    116982

    Elusive Brew
    EB his frenzy when an add dies. Nothing is better for avoidance buffs than tons of attacks.
    BrM All
    143385


    glyph guard & abuse diffuse magic + zen med to take more tank debuffs than you should - an order like tank A A A B A B A B B B B is what Midwinter used. Get your debuff stack high enough (4+ in normal, 5+ in heroic) and you should be able to just zerg through the shredder add while it's getting healed (for more effective cleave.)
    The Paragons of the Klaxxi
    WW MW BrM All


    Ring of Peace
    Some are disarmable, not stunnable
    BrM MW WW All


    Grapple Weapon
    Test which one(s) are disarmable
    WW MW BrM All


    Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger
    Xuen is great for both damage and healing because he'll be cleaving for his full duration. People won't be stacked up for chi torp or RJW healing, and damage on the secondary ones isn't too useful because they heal when one dies.
    BrM All
    143339

    Elusive Brew
    Injection doesn't hit you if you are "actively mitigating" but unlike Raden this works off EB and maybe Guard, not off shuffle. You can either make sure you have one of those up as he casts Injection, or maybe sure you never do, resulting in him rolling the stacks higher and higher, rather than ever spawning the adds.
    BrM All
    142315

    Elusive Brew
    Caustic Blood will fail to hit tanks who are using their Active Mitigation abilities, but it works off EB and maybe Guard, not shuffle like Raden did.
    BrM All


    Rushing Jade Wind
    RJW does more single target damage over the course of the fight than Xuen as long as you're tanking them such that you hit all 3 and thus get the Chi. 1/3 of my RJW damage on our kill far outshines the damage jab + xuen have ever done, plus the meter padding does result in a lot of statue guards and gotox orbs.
    BrM All
    143339

    Chi Brew
    If you have Rikkal as one of the first 3 and you're planning to keep EB up, rather than make sure it's never up when he does injection, take chi brew to be able to EB right away.
    BrM All
    143339


    You can glyph guard and it will probably never drop off you, resulting in 100% AM uptime, if you don't want to bother making sure you have EB up for the casts. This is definitely inferior with perfect play, but may be so much easier that it is actually better than just doing it "right" with EB.
    Garrosh Hellscream
    BrM MW WW All


    Ring of Peace
    Ring of Peace works on the adds. Stuns do too, but stuns are annoying
    MW All


    Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger
    Xuen is great for both damage and healing because he'll be cleaving for his full duration
    BrM All


    Rushing Jade Wind
    RJW is Almost certainly the best T90 for tanks unless you're just kiting adds
    BrM MW WW All


    Grapple Weapon
    Grapple Weapon - Works on the adds
    BrM All


    Clash
    Clash does seem to work
    WW All
    71865

    Storm, Earth, and Fire
    Phase 1 leave an SEF on the boss and (if 25 man) second shaman while you deal with the first shaman and aoe.
    BrM All


    Fen-Yu, Fury of Xuen
    Lots of adds, but unsure whether it will be worth using the cleave cape
    WW Looking for Raid, Flex Raid, 10 Man Normal, 25 Man Normal
    144985

    Touch of Karma
    During Whirling Corruption you can use Touch of Karma or Diffuse Magic to survive (reduce the damage drastically) and continue DPSing Garrosh.
    WW All
    145037


    Empowered Whirling Corruption you can Touch of Karma and keep Meleeing, but you will either need to time it perfectly, or use a Healthstone/Fort Brew/Diffuse Magic to keep yourself alive as you may take a few seconds worth of damage.
    BrM All
    144653

    Roll
    You can just tank the adds all in the path of the Iron Star you're not disabling, then roll backwards as the Star is about to get to you, rather than fussing with knockbacks, as those require ranged players to be in melee.
    BrM All
    71979

    Keg Smash
    The 3% misfire effect from Dizzying Haze and/or Keg Smash works on these adds, so even more reason to make sure you're cleaving them all, as if we needed a suggestion to cleave.
    BrM All
    71865

    Indomitable Primal Diamond
    One of the best fights for the tank meta, due to the sustained tank damage. It's the only one I've used it for, so far.
    BrM All


    Dizzying Haze
    You can just kite all of the Minions around the room in phase 2 and 3 and never kill them
    WW All


    Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger
    RJW is probably the the most overall damage, but Xuen is likely the most damage when it is most important. It would be hard to call either talent bad though, and it depends what your raid needs.
    BrM All
    71979

    Summon Black Ox Statue
    put your statue down on one side, taunt your statue to taunt all the adds from that side to you (with the runspeed buff it gives them), and pick up the other side ones with RJW. Don't keg toss them because you want them to get to you faster, not slower.
    BrM All
    71865

    Vengeance
    Assuming you're tanking the adds in p1 (you should), if you're not taunting Garrosh back and forth for vengeance you should be because the adds give very little vengeance now since it scales down with multiple mobs.
    BrM All
    71865

    Provoke
    You should pull to get him into place faster. That provoke run speed buff is a great excuse to tank first most fights.
    BrM MW WW All
    144583

    Spear Hand Strike
    Interrupt chain heal, DO NOT interrupt chain lightning (it buffs their casting speed)
    Timeless Isle
    Chi-Ji
    Niuzao
    Xuen
    Yu'lon
    Ordos
    Last edited by lairpie; 2013-09-26 at 07:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    This is actually a very good post, I'd post a picture of a ribbon but luq would infract me for it, I like infractions

    For Mistweavers, Xuen looks to be very promising for encounters that have sustained cleave. For example on Garrosh Hellscream, Dark Shaman & Klaxxi you can pop him at the start and have him carry your healing while you do a considerable amount of DPS. I don't think this falls under the whole "use chi burst when stacked" thing because a lot of people don't realize how powerful Xuen's cleave is.

    I know for certain you can Ring of Peace disarm adds on Garrosh, Galakras & Nazgrim. As well as ranged disarm also.

    Dispelling yourself on Sha of Pride with diffuse gives no pride at all.
    Last edited by Luqt; 2013-09-04 at 07:02 PM.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Radio's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Drop Bears
    Posts
    3,316
    Personal BRM additions:

    Jin'rokh heroic:
    - You can sit on the boss during storms without a care in the world if you pop a guard as the storm starts and use diffuse for the last six seconds of the storm, the cooldown for diffuse lines up perfectly
    - In those moments where you HAVE to tank with stacks of static wound, EB can reduce the chance that you will zap the raid

    Tortos (norm and heroic):
    - Snapping Bite is avoidable, so you can time your EBs to increase the chance of dodging it, or you can instead /cancelaura to pop your 2p if you prefer to rely on mitigation

    Megaera (norm and heroic):
    - running Chi Torpedo with Celerity, especially on heroic, gives you a lot of raid life-saving potential during rampages, especially while you still have the vengeance from tanking the head, doing a quarter roll (roll>jump) seems to give extra ticks too, and looks almost like a revival when done well


    Personal WW additions:

    Durumu (heroic):
    - SEF on the ice-walls is incredible, especially when you can't really get in melee range of them (maze phase)

  4. #4
    Fallen Protectors - 2
    Can you Nimble Brew the stun from Rook? Yes



    Norushen - 3
    Can you disarm things in the Trial? No
    Can you stun things in the Trial? Yes

    Sha of Pride - 4
    Are the adds clashable? Yes
    Does dispelling mark of arrogance with Diffuse give 5 pride? No

    Galakras - 5

    Can you stun? Yes
    Can you clash? Yes
    Can you disarm? Yes
    What adds, banners, totems have roughly 6-700 hp such that they could get ToD one shot? Pointless due to being able to just jab them and they will still die

    Iron Juggernaut - 6

    Can you zen med laser burn? Normal yes heroic no
    What happens if you FSK right as a mine knocks you up? you cant due to being unable to use it while being thrown up
    Can you click a mine while channeling zen med? No

    Kor'Kron Dark Shaman - 7

    foul slimes stunnable? clashable? No
    Do they still generate the aura when stunned? Not stunnable


    General Nazgrim - 8

    Him or the adds:
    Can you stun? Adds yes Boss no
    Can you clash? No
    Can you disarm? Both
    Can you ZM anything? No

    The Spoils of Pandaria - 10
    Can you stun? Yes
    Can you clash? No
    Can you disarm? Mogu side
    Can you ZM anything? No

    Thok the Bloodthirsty - 11

    Can you stun? No
    Can you clash? No
    Can you disarm? can disarm Jailer
    Can you ZM anything? No

    Siegecrafter Blackfuse - 12
    Can you stun? No
    Can you clash? No
    Can you disarm? No
    Can you ZM anything? No

    The Paragons of the Klaxxi - 13
    Can you stun? No
    Can you clash? No
    Can you disarm? Only bladelord

    Garrosh Hellscream - 14
    Can you stun? adds yes
    Can you clash? no
    Can you disarm? adds yes


    Anything I took out or dident mention it is because I don't know.

  5. #5
    It's nice as a thought exercise and a helpful repository for information, but unless you plan on making a different thread specifically for 5.4 it'd probably be a good idea to keep ToT out of this because most of that information will be irrelevant to the general raiding population in just under 2 weeks.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    T16
    Immerseus:
    Can you slow or root the adds with disable? - yes.
    You can teleport through the beam thingie with transcendence.

    Protectors:
    Does Nimble Brew clear the gouge if you screw up. Do you need to retaunt him? - both yes.

    Norushen:
    You can teleport through the beam thingie with transcendence.

    Sha of Pride:
    Adds come on a precise 30 second cooldown, so Chi Burst useful for AoE. The range is enough to use it as a tank if everyone else is stacked up behind the boss.

    Galakras:
    Can you clear Kugruk's Thunderclap slow stacks with nimble brew? - yes.

    Malkorok:
    On normal, this is as close to tank and spank as we'll get this tier. Nothing to stun/clash/disarm. Haven't tested the debuff in p2 with ZM/DM. Haven't tested heroic.

    T15 heroic
    Tortos:
    WW - alternating Touch of Karma and Dampen Harm on stomps allows you to never lose the shield unless you take other damage.
    BM/WW - RJW and Chi Burst are the best option if you're killing the bats, this combo is extremely strong.

    Magaera:
    All - Zen Meditation actually works as advertised during Rampages, in that it intercepts the bolts fired at the raid and redirects then to you. Be very careful with this as a Bm though if you're using Avert Harm during this time - ZM will break after 3 seconds or so and you will most probably die.
    All - Chi Burst for stacked up healing during Rampages and for damage on the adds (heroic).

    Primordius:
    ??? All - Xuen - Doesn't get the buff to do proper damage (I've read this, but never checked whether he was working right) - I've posted about this before, either here or at EJ. He doesn't get mutated and never does full damage to the boss.
    All - Xuen - Has issues with actually hitting the boss with the lightning cleave because of the size of his hitbox. - This I'm not too sure about. I think he was applying the dot back when I was still using him here.

    Dark Animus:
    All - trying to ZM an Interrupting Jolt is a bad idea, as you'll get locked out of all nature spells for 8 seconds. Less of a problem for WW.

    Iron Qon:
    WW - wait a second or two for an opening in the tornadoes, then FSK+roll in a straight line. You'll be out in 2 seconds.
    BM - use provoke right after a storm to apply the movement speed increase and get the boss where you want it faster.

    Lei Shen:
    BM/WW - RJW+Chi Burst to destroy ball lightnings.
    All - use Leg Sweep to stun the diffused lightning adds, especially before a stack-up for a static shock soak.
    (heroic) All - while all 3 T15 talents are useful here, you can use Tiger's Lust both on yourself and on others during Helm of Command.
    (heroic) BM - try to pool as much energy as you can for Expel Harm spam in the last phase; even if your healers are amazing, the amount of damage you'll be taking here is very high.

    Ra-Den:
    BM/MW - place your statue about 15 yards away from the stacking point, then tell your DKs to use Gorefiend's Grasp on it just before the Crackling Stalker dies. This way its death explosion will happen outside the raid.
    WW - Touch of Karma the explosions when you allow the boss to absorb the orbs.
    WW - stick a SEF clone on the crackling stalker while continuing to dps the boss; can stick one on the orbs that need to be killed if your group is struggling to bring them down.

  8. #8
    Could you perhaps order the information per spec? The information itself is very useful, but it's a bit messy to read atm.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    getting a coffee
    Posts
    8,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Callypso View Post
    Could you perhaps order the information per spec? The information itself is very useful, but it's a bit messy to read atm.
    yeah a bit more organisation would be cool. maybe put it in a google doc and link to that
    Hi

  10. #10
    There's are all from a 10man normal perspective

    ToT

    Horridon:
    All Specs - You can click the control orb and then use SCK to cancel the cast. Horridon will still charge the door.

    Council:
    Brew Master - Pick up Diffuse Magic. There's nothing that hits hard enough for Dampen Harm to actually trigger.

    Tortos:
    Tanking Bats - Pool energy and chi and save some orbs for before the bats come out. Usually I let myself dip down from falling rocks and quake. When bats come out I pop guard, expel harm and run over some orbs. Instant threat that is hard to pull off me. Glyph breath of fire for an added stun. Ox wave works great as well.

    Megeara:
    You can easily pool 15 stacks of EB during rampage
    As mentioned Celerity + Chi-Torpedo is an amazing help to healing during rampage. I usually Torpedo with around 8-9 secs left on rampage that way all the healing CDs are ramping down.
    I usually tank red, blue, red blue etc. For red breaths I rotate Guard(glyphed)> Diffuse Magic >Guard. Save Fort Brew for any heads you are keeping up.

  11. #11
    Great thread so far. Now that your getting some input, cleaning it up would be nice.

  12. #12
    Got that stuff added. Especially for T16 stuff, additional information is awesome.

    I disagree that the T15 stuff will be useless soon. I don't have any numbers, (even ones I won't reveal, GC style) but I think most people would be suprised just how many people are still doing T14 fights now, and how many will still be doing T15 fights next patch. Sometimes its for the meta achievements that you didn't do because HM loot was more important. Sometimes its on a new character (the people that have the most reason to be looking at "hey, what can this new class do?"). Sometimes its just to see the old heroics your guild didn't do. If nothing else, it serves as a great reference for what sorts of cool shit you can do that you can apply to new fights. That being said, had I not written most of that months ago, I probably wouldn't have done it now. When the thread is pages long, I imagine most people are going to read the first post until they get to content they don't care about, then skip to the most recent discussions anyway, so having less useful, and clearly differentiated, old content stuff at the end of it, doesn't really hurt. Also, cleaning up the T15 stuff is going to be just about last priority.

    In terms of formatting, trust me I'm more bothered by it than anyone else. I've also come to the conclusion that even if I worked really hard to use what's available within MMO-Champion forums, I'll still hate it. More than anything, I want the ability to hide and show things. I'm like 75% certain I'm going to move the whole thing over to my own server where I can css and jquery it to my heart's content, then have the first post here be a paste of that, and a link to the smoothly formatted dynamic one. The content will stay up to date on both, but there's so many things I want to do to make this more usable such as:

    • I want to have the spec icons in one column to show relevance, along with a button at the top that will hide or show things based on spec. Like 3 check boxes, where if you uncheck MW, anything that's flagged as only applying to mistweaver just disappears (trivially easy to code, btw). Recheck it and it appears
    • I want icons clarifying Difficulty and raid size, again with a hide/show mechanic to allow people to be immersed in monkness if they wish, or get a quick rundown of how to not be a terrible X monk in the new lfr at the click of a button.
    • I want to have a list of all the monk relevant, spec relevant loot from each boss that starts hidden, but you can click. I've been doing this for myself and my wife anyways to help decide what to coin, its pretty useful, but really is the sort of thing that needs to not get in the way.
    • Links to non-monk-specific guides and videos for a boss
    • I'd like to incorporate the monk videos thread into this as well
    In short, I think a monk should be able to go to a single place for a given boss and get a link to the general strategy, see it done from Monk Points of view, check what loot they'd want, see what kind of cool "monk shit" you can do on that boss and be all set. However, I'm not trying to do that all at once. So first step, just get the "monk shit" handled and up and discussed. I'm hoping to get it functioning how i want on my server before the patch as well. I already have a whole setup for items and bosses and stuff from building my now deceased guild's DKP app so it shouldn't be too much to make a sweet display version of the content, and also have it get auto formatted into the best i can do for a cut and paste into this thread.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Not sure what your experience is with developing stuff like that, but if you need a hand I'd be happy to help.
    Last edited by mmoc3f252392be; 2013-08-29 at 04:13 PM.

  14. #14
    I have extensive experience as a java / grails / python developer and lots of work dealing with databases if you need help.

    Immersus: MW: Lay 3 healing spheres where an add is going to land and then spam till its full transendence / roll to the center of the room and revival. It will heal everything.

  15. #15
    In terms of helping with the app, I'll definitely keep you guys in mind, though I think I should have it all done pretty quick. Where help would be even better would be long term maintaining. I'm setting it up with the idea of having multiple admins or contributors rather than relying solely on me. The only thing I'm really not sure about is whether I'm going to be able to get it to automatically post an update back to here when there's a change, or if that's going to have to get manually pasted in here. Basically whether I can spoof my mmo-champion login from within php as all of my experience is either pl/sql and java on top of an Oracle DB or .NET/SqlServer, but doing this the nice and legitimately free route.

    I also am setting it up from the start to support multiple classes in case it works well enough that other classes would like to use the same setup. Basically it's just a big table of tips, that have a column for raid size applicability, difficulty, and spell id just to give the tip a relevant icon. Then there's another table binding each of those tips to 1 or more specs.

    Step 1 is data built, populated and display UI just focusing on fight tips like this thread does. Should have this all before the patch.
    Step 2 is adding in stuff like links to monk pov vids for each spec and fight, links to the general strats, links to WoLs. Ideally I'd also like to get a few links to a wol that match up with a video because having both of those together is quite useful from my experience. Hoping to have at least most of this before the patch.
    Step 3 is the admin/contributer ui. This won't get touched till 5.4 dies down a little.
    Step 4 is coming up with a way to get it to magically post the data, nicely formatted, back to this thread. This won't get touched till 5.4 dies down.

  16. #16
    Added a few more things I saw in other threads.
    Especially looking for suggestions for abilities (preferably that you actually tested not just "hey this sounds good" for SoO.
    Should have the app ready this weekend that will magically format, sort, track, etc this stuff and make it all pretty.

  17. #17
    From a WW perspective, editing this as I go along.

    Immerseus: Thinking about taking Chi Torpedo. The adds don't live long enough for SEF to be very effective, and near the end of the fight you have a lot more healing adds than DPS adds. Torpedoing though adds will do damage to some and heal others, and you can pop TEB to double dip a little bit.
    Glyph of Targeted Expulsion will be nice to double dip a bit on the adds that need to be healed as they spawn, and hopefully it will damage a nearby DPS add.

    Norushen: SEF the adds during the trial, and focus on the big dude first. When above, SEF the big adds.
    Transcendence around the Sha Spout thing if needed to buy you some movement.

    Galakras: If you get chosen to DPS the tower, SEF the archers up top while killing the elite. Leave trancendence down below, and RJW all the things below.

    Iron Juggernaut. Take Dampen Harm, and you can eat pretty much all the mines as a WW or MW.

    Spoils of Pandaria: Can you use Zen Med and click the extra action button without ZM breaking for the sticky bombs? If not, you can drop them all in the same place and open up some real estate.

    Thok: Dat Trancendence escape hatch. Might be good if you get chosen for a later/faster kite.

  18. #18
    Galakras : Totems and/or banners (I don't remember which, was at least one of them - maybe both) are immune to Crackling Jade Lightning.

    Korkron Dark Shaman: Both are disarmable with Grapple Weapon and Ring of Peace. Not sure if that prevents Froststorm Strike.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Radio's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Drop Bears
    Posts
    3,316
    I've noticed that the crawler mines do physical damage when you stomp on them, are they stagger-able or do they have some weird bypass?

  20. #20
    The Patient Azelias's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    261
    Just a couple of small additions by me.

    For Jin'Rokh HM: Using Diffuse Magic when you have Ionization self clears the debuff. Just be sure to not be in the pool when you do.
    For Primordius: Using Diffuse Magic at any time will clear all of your debuff's excluding Fully Mutated. So using it to be safe from the effects of Cloud + Erupting + Glands + Spines is a terrible idea if you want to keep the bonuses. (Better to use Karma or Zen Med)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •