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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Champxoxo View Post
    Do you not have a job?
    Jobs usually do not demand someone to go AFK for periods of time unlike people who need to study for exams. Also since students usually go to school during the day, they might have an evening job = bad for raiding since raiding usually happens in the evening. A lot of students live with their parents especially the 16 ye olds ones = parents can step in at any time and pull the plug to the internet or stop the creditcard funding for WoW.

  2. #182
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    I would agree with that Vaelorian, we go for a similar model. We do not tolerate childish behaviour, in fact I don't believe we have a single member under 25 or so, by pure coincidence. And we consider our guild name a product that stands for something. We just don't connect that to raiding attendance or performance, the guild is more than just raid teams. So that' where we differ I guess.

    Also, 2-3 months in a guild nowadays isn't nothing. Personally I rely on my judgement when it comes to people and not the just the circumstances. It usually works out, we've never had any drama or had to kick anyone. But again, your philosophy is simply a completely different one, we don't care if we clear content 1-2 months later, and try to make the most of our experience in the guild. Frankly when guilds focus purely on heroic progress race and nothing else is usually when the burnout sets in and guilds collapse sooner or later.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    I would agree with that Vaelorian, we go for a similar model. We do not tolerate childish behaviour, in fact I don't believe we have a single member under 25 or so, by pure coincidence. And we consider our guild name a product that stands for something. We just don't connect that to raiding attendance or performance, the guild is more than just raid teams. So that' where we differ I guess.

    Also, 2-3 months in a guild nowadays isn't nothing. Personally I rely on my judgement when it comes to people and not the just the circumstances. It usually works out, we've never had any drama or had to kick anyone. But again, your philosophy is simply a completely different one, we don't care if we clear content 1-2 months later, and try to make the most of our experience in the guild. Frankly when guilds focus purely on heroic progress race and nothing else is usually when the burnout sets in and guilds collapse sooner or later.
    Well I guess we can shake hands then thanks for your reply. I take back the =) comments about YOUR post. I still stand by what I said earlier on those tho. I just go by my own experience. I counted the applies I received during my 6/7 years as GM of my guild - they exceed 2.000. You can imagine that I had to deal with litterally hundreds of applies of people below 18. So you get a feel for that, which ofcourse at times might be wrong, but usually do one credit.

    My guild ultimately grew with general age aswel. The older I got the older the members got that we got into the guild. At the end we were a 28+ kind of guild. With a few people that were lower then 22 and only 2 were 16 that I kept as regular members and still to this day have on my friendslist.

    I must make a point that most people seem not to understand about "my kind of guild". When you are a heroic guild such as the one I had, people who are not as much into progress usually say: oh they are a heroic guild and very serious, the atmosphere must be terrible and no one is friends etc.

    It is just not true. I still have guildmeetings with my members even though the guild no longer exists (well its still there but it is a ghosttown). You built a humongous bond with eachother through those hardships. Humour and social stuff happens in heroic guilds aswell. Usually very much outside of raidtimes. Very much during the weekends.

  4. #184
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Oh don't misunderstand. I was in bleeding edge progress race guilds in Vanilla and TBC and the atmosphere was great for the most part. But the fact of the matter was that once the success that everyone wanted wasn't there, it began to crumble rapidly. Now occasionally you'll get lucky and get a team of people together that "clicks" and just enjoys each other's company as well as raids together well. That's rare. We got very lucky and actually have two such groups this expansion, albeit not at a heroic progress level yet.

    Ultimately it comes down to hard decisions on the part of a raidleader/guildleader either way. One could argue that it's tougher for me to tell someone they can't come raid due to lack of attendance/reliability or ability for the content we aim for, due to the fact that we don't openly exclude anyone. A guild like yours that focuses purely on that side of things and openly recruits that way won't have that dilemma.

    OT: at the end of the day it's just unclear what the OPs guild's philosophy really is, to me it now sounds like the OP would prefer my kind of guild while he was kicked from a Vaelorian-type guild that is not doing well at communicating it's rules and stance.

  5. #185
    Being a recruitment officer I'll say this,

    I do think there is something missing in your post, we raid about 4 to 5 nights a week depending on progression , 3 hours a night , we're not considered a casual guild so having younger raider's is not always the best. Although I always give them the benefit of the doubt the interview they are questioned intensely to know what type of life they live, how much control their parents have over curfew , how much time school will take out to have an idea of what type of student this person is and so forth. After reading your post , it seems like you knew about the exam's for a while telling your GM in advance about your absence would of probably been a bit helpful so he had some time to find a replacement.

    Finding a replacement isn't always easy, If you're part of a dead server then the chance of pugging is minimal although you are only into reg's , it may be slightly easier for your GM. Saying things at last minute is really frowned upon here unless its an unexpected thing lick sickness, loss of job , having to move , family problems ,etc. We're always aware that type of thing can happen. That being said, if your GM has a steady roster of 10 people for a 10-man let's say then that's partially his fault for not planning in advance to have extra people to raid properly.

    I have had raider's in the past that were under 18: in school, had jobs on the week-ends and so forth. Every one of them knew the rules, everyone of them were interviewed over mumble and asked if school was going to take them away from raiding, if parents would interfere and if they could play at the hardcore level. If a person tell's me "Yes, I will be available with no problems" then it's on your shoulders. You provided me with information that said that you would be a reliable raider, with determination and have 100% attendance. If you lied to get your way in and I found out 2-3 months later I will kick you (This is an example btw lol)

    I would ask your old GM when you get back what he meant by incapable because reality is it's not very explanatory of what the issue is. Also top DPS might be good to you but without logs we can't really know, you could be top DPS not doing any mechanic , you may think you have a great awareness when maybe you don't and without knowing any of this it's hard to say if he was harsh or not.

    Shake it off and think about your exams for now, but I think you should really sit down and reconsider where you will be capable of raiding and whats more important to you, its called figuring out your priorities and taking responsibility. Good luck.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    Oh don't misunderstand. I was in bleeding edge progress race guilds in Vanilla and TBC and the atmosphere was great for the most part. But the fact of the matter was that once the success that everyone wanted wasn't there, it began to crumble rapidly. Now occasionally you'll get lucky and get a team of people together that "clicks" and just enjoys each other's company as well as raids together well. That's rare. We got very lucky and actually have two such groups this expansion, albeit not at a heroic progress level yet.

    Ultimately it comes down to hard decisions on the part of a raidleader/guildleader either way. One could argue that it's tougher for me to tell someone they can't come raid due to lack of attendance/reliability or ability for the content we aim for, due to the fact that we don't openly exclude anyone. A guild like yours that focuses purely on that side of things and openly recruits that way won't have that dilemma.

    OT: at the end of the day it's just unclear what the OPs guild's philosophy really is, to me it now sounds like the OP would prefer my kind of guild while he was kicked from a Vaelorian-type guild that is not doing well at communicating it's rules and stance.
    Meanwhile I don't raid anymore but your guild suits me now a lot more then mine would - people change - guilds change too.

    Nice to chat with you but I have to do some actual work now haha

    Cheers

  7. #187
    Banned Shadee's Avatar
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    Sounds like you deserved to be kicked

  8. #188
    No offense to you, but this is one of the reasons why I had an 18+ policy when I was a guild leader. It sucks to have to replace a top DPSer due to school, for exactly the reasons you state ("My mom/dad/parents put controls on my account and/or I can't raid due to studies."). I don't fault high schoolers at all - I just didn't want to have to deal with parent aggro and the inconsistencies with teenagers (it's also around this time they start dating, have teenage angst, all sorts of drama, etc.).

    That being said, from YOUR point of view, that sucks. There are plenty of guilds out there that are casual/time-restricted friendly, who would be able to go for a few weeks without your DPS.

  9. #189
    To be fair as you said you've only been in the guild for a few months. The GM ows you nothing, and would rather find an active raider to fill your spot during SOO. He should've placed you as social instead of the kick, but other than that, good decision.

    Why should he put the entire guilds progression at risk over your Father being strict/you having exams? Just find another guild once the exams are done.

    18+ policy is a must if you want to do any sort of serious or consistent raiding. Not too many 16 year olds with full control of their own lives.
    Last edited by Etrigan; 2013-08-30 at 01:28 PM.

  10. #190
    I ran a guild for a while. Why gkick a teenager cause he can't make the raid for exams? Just replace him on the raiding team. Simple. Kicking him is unnecessary. You cant just say "You can't raid with an assured spot anymore. Sorry."

    Unless there's another reason he's not telling. But I can't see the justice in KICKING someone for that. There's a lot of stigma that gkicking comes with. Not sure a two week absence is a good enough reason. Either this GL seems to think WoW is more important than real life, or the kid is holding out and not telling some other part of the story.

  11. #191
    I think you should apply to a new guild and BEFORE joining let them know your situation.

    I think it's important you don't just think about yourself in this situation and take if from the GM's point of view. Would you like spending countless online and offline hours organizing a roster and such just to have a member take a spur of the moment hiatus?

    Personally, this is why guilds have an 18+ policy.
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  12. #192
    What realm type you on mate - pvp or pve ?

    If pve then there is a good chance that when connected realms go live you will be joined with my realm , Nagrand ( oceanic ) ,as we are a medium pop realm so are expecting to be connected to two or three low pop oceanic realms .

    If this happens you are welcome to join my guild , Order of the Dragon . just look for our recruitment messages in trade or whisper Sulakin or Belldinn in game ( my main toons )

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Jobs usually do not demand someone to go AFK for periods of time unlike people who need to study for exams. Also since students usually go to school during the day, they might have an evening job = bad for raiding since raiding usually happens in the evening. A lot of students live with their parents especially the 16 ye olds ones = parents can step in at any time and pull the plug to the internet or stop the creditcard funding for WoW.
    If only I had the time to play now like I used to when I was a student......(and that includes both undergrad and grad school)...

    Unfortunately now with the proper job, the time constraints get even worse, not to mention the older age bracket, when people get married and start having kids (a real attendance killer).

    Having been in a couple of progressed guilds, the age group that probably plays best and commits the most time are the 17-23 year olds. Exams happen, but when people get older a ton of other responsibilities bring about attendance issues.

  14. #194
    Brewmaster Lovecrafts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SausageRawr View Post
    A little of a back-story: I'm a full time student, I'm 16 and just about to have yearly examinations in less than a week, my father is strict on me and my education and he's told me that I wont be able to play WoW for the next 2 weeks so I can study for these exams.


    So last night, I spoke to my guild leader, I've been in this raiding guild for about 2-3 months on a pretty low populated server. We've finished ToT on normal, killed Lei Shen most of the time, so we are extremely capable of doing SOO, my father spoke to me and gave me a lecture on the whole "Do you want to succeed in life?" and what not..., I realize that this is pretty important, so I told my guild leader that I would have to be gone for 2 weeks, I would be back before the new patch hits. There are many stand-by's in the guild, and have the gear and the skill to be able to raid ToT, we are clearing ToT every week doing Heroics at the same time, however I always have to be on despite my examinations within the next 2 weeks.

    We spoke on ventrilo, and he was pretty kind about it, straight up that I've been incapable these past few weeks and I need to have much better time management, but I think it's extrememly unfair that this much stress has to be carried on my shoulders... He kicked me from the guild, full stop, even after I told him all that's going on.

    Wanted to get your opinions on this...
    And this is why I prefer LFR, no drama, no raging raid leaders, no two-faced GMs.
    Let's make America GREAT again. Trump 2016.

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  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovecrafts View Post
    And this is why I prefer LFR, no drama, no raging
    what

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  16. #196
    Brewmaster Lovecrafts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caribald View Post
    what

    10char
    LFR = No dramatic guild raid groups, no required attendance, no angry GMs, no raging raid leaders. The fact the GM kicked someone who put their real life education over wow speaks volumes to the IQ level of some of the player base. It's disgusting and I'm glad I'm not required to consistently interact with those people to see content anymore.
    Let's make America GREAT again. Trump 2016.

    The community whined and bitched and cried, they stamped their little feet and demanded faster expansion releases. They don't get to complain now that expansions are shorter.

  17. #197
    Sorry, but the OP seems fishy. No one at the age of 16 needs 2 weeks to study for an exam. That's absurd.
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  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovecrafts View Post
    LFR = No dramatic guild raid groups, no required attendance, no angry GMs, no raging raid leaders.
    Hopefully Flexi raiding is a soloution and a step up to help the LFR players.

    If you can see pug flexi raids going in trade / general chat, i think the system will work extremely well.
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  19. #199
    Brewmaster Lovecrafts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    Sorry, but the OP seems fishy. No one at the age of 16 needs 2 weeks to study for an exam. That's absurd.
    At 16, in highschool, we'd have major exam weeks. You'd easily put in a week or two studying for them. Especially if you are in advanced AP classes. Let me guess, you side with the GM? I applaud the OP for putting his education before a video game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    Hopefully Flexi raiding is a soloution and a step up to help the LFR players.

    If you can see pug flexi raids going in trade / general chat, i think the system will work extremely well.
    I can see it now "LFM FOR SOO FLEX RAID, NEED ACHIEVEMENT COMPLETED AND 650ILEVEL AND KNOW ALL FIGHT!"
    Let's make America GREAT again. Trump 2016.

    The community whined and bitched and cried, they stamped their little feet and demanded faster expansion releases. They don't get to complain now that expansions are shorter.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Reignisevil View Post
    Being a recruitment officer I'll say this,
    (...)

    I have had raider's in the past that were under 18: in school, had jobs on the week-ends and so forth. Every one of them knew the rules, everyone of them were interviewed over mumble and asked if school was going to take them away from raiding, if parents would interfere and if they could play at the hardcore level. If a person tell's me "Yes, I will be available with no problems" then it's on your shoulders. You provided me with information that said that you would be a reliable raider, with determination and have 100% attendance. If you lied to get your way in and I found out 2-3 months later I will kick you (This is an example btw lol)
    My guild actually has a recruitment stipulation that you must have control over your account. In the past we've had people who did not in fact have that and it caused a lot of problems (the 'best' one was someone claiming their authenticator was on his sister's phone). Only one person turned out to be a kid and his spot was quietly replaced (in other words he lost his spot regardless).

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