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  1. #1
    Epic!
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    How did your guilds Lei Shen HC progress look like?

    TLDR: Check topic title. Otherwise read on.

    So at the beginning of T15 I got back from a longish break from the game, and joined a new 25-man guild. I like the guild, but something I noticed from the start was the extreme skill difference between the top and "bottom" players. There's pretty much always a difference in guilds, but in my experience it's much higher than usual in this guild. This has continued to show through the whole tier, with us struggling mightily on bosses that require personal responsibility. Jin'rokh HC and Durumu HC in particular, and lately Lei Shen HC.

    We're closing in on 200 wipes now, and I'm starting to fear the boss just isn't killable for us. I can see no difference between pull 50 and pull 150.

    Phase 1: Obviously very easy part of the fight, but we occasionally suffer single deaths from players lagging when Thunderstruck comes, or a platform leveling up. But overall this phase is fine.

    Transition 1: This is where it gets ugly. Definitely the part we wipe the most on. On a given night, there is usually 2-3 platforms that do ok most of the time. Then there's 1-2 others that struggles (mostly spawning the big adds I'd say). We often have some different people on different platforms every raid, so it's hard to pin point any specific players that are causing the problems.

    Phase 2: Assuming we get through first transition ok, we usually handle phase 2 without much issue. If we get this far, we will reach the second transition most of the time.

    Transition 2: It's very rare that we get this far with everyone alive. If we do, it's pretty much a hit and miss. Sometimes we wipe, sometimes we have a few deaths here and there, and I don't think we've ever finished with everyone alive.

    Phase 3: Not much to say. In all our pulls, we've never seen phase 3 with everyone alive. I think we've reached the phase maybe 2 or 3 times with enough players up, to start trying to learn how everything should go.


    So that's how it's looking for us. From what I read most guilds take maybe ~150 pulls for a kill, so I know we're already "behind". What worries me the most is that I haven't seen any progress made in the last 100 pulls.

    I'm curious. How did the Lei Shen HC progress look for your guild?

  2. #2
    For my guild we didn't have a dk or monk which can `cheese` the fight regardless, we dealt with P1 easy, 1st transistion we wiped a lot at, then overcame it and P2 was easy. 2nd Transistion was also a pain for us, after a few hours people got the hang, we made people not waste their immunities during P2 to solo soak static shock, instead static shock stands under boss, and people soak it w/ them in a ring, to avoid stacking dmg from balls (although my team sucks at staying spread enough..)

    basically 1st transistion took us a few wipes, nothing major - to get used to.
    2nd transistion took us a good few hours/a night - people started to get past it - can have the occasional death but people should just learn how to deal w/ every problem on their platform, if you still struggle go with for example Tank + 1 good dps like a rogue or something, and 4-4 on the other two platforms.

    P3 is a joke, he dies so fast depending on your dps - it's a massive issue for my guild simply because anything that involes moving, our healers seem to struggle... + people like spawning tons of adds xD just make them watch timers - if you constantly get past 2nd transistion w/ none death or max 1, you'll make VERY fast progress on Lei Shen.

  3. #3
    We killed Lei Shen in 198 attempts. We got to phase 3 maybe 10 times before the kill, with a couple 1-5% wipe and generally around 15% the rest of the time.
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  4. #4
    91 attempts for us (10 man), but only killed it this reset on Wednesday. Most of our struggle came from intermission #1 as most guilds I imagine. Then besides a few fails in phase 2, that went fine aswell and wiped a few times in intermission #2. We had about 3-5 phase 3 attempts that were a complete clusterfuck and wiped at about 15% with raid members dying since the very start. Then we changed our phase 3 strat and oneshot it first time we got there. Of course, most of our wipes were spent actually getting there though. We 3 healed this aswell.

    Note: Nothing more hilarious than first Thunderstruck of phase 1, our resto druid yelling on vent that her character is RP walking and she doesn't know the keybind to turn it off. Splat!

  5. #5
    We had lots and lots of wipes in first transition, about 1/7 as many in the 2nd transition and around 10 in the last phase, 5 with everyone alive.

    We went from having the boss at 12% to killing it, so don't give your hopes up. If someone keeps failing over and over at the transition you'll just have to replace them in the end, no matter how good they are on healing/dps meters.

  6. #6
    We're at 90 and only got to transition 2 like 2 times, in 25 man. It may seem hopeless some attempts, but I trust in the guild that we'll do it before 5.4. It's just sometimes rather difficult to overcome "bad RNG" on transitions with skill, among 5-6 players per platform.
    I still remember someone at the start of Cata saying that he'll never go back to LK - since it took him over 800 tries...

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    25HC:
    Our total was about 280, but about 100 of those were stuff like: Random DPS dying on pull(boss's first hit goes to a random melee), disconnects, monk healer rolling off platform(woop) and tanks messing up the pillar energy. Also related to disconnects was getting new people in from time to time so they weren't sure about everything.

    For the most part, what you're describing looks pretty much what our guild had going. Majority of the actual wipes were in 1st Transition. Our actual kill was 2/3 Resses used going into P3 and a Rogue DPS die during 2nd Transition(getting 2x Static in a row). Before that we had a goddamn 0.2% wipe(~3m health).

    The fight requires a lot of coordination, 1 player dying can hurt a lot early on and to make the encounter bearable you would want: 2 Monks, 2 DKs, 3 Warlocks. Also 1 tank being Brewmaster Monk helps a TON with moving between pillars, our regular Pala tank(543?) actually swapped to his sub-530 Monk for the boss since we needed the Monk Taunt OP-ness.

    Overall, definitely the hardest boss of WoW so far for non-"Top 25" guilds.

  8. #8
    It took us about ~200 attempts but this was before Valor upgrades. I think the best piece of advice I can give you without going into huge paragraphs is assign spots for everything.

    Basically on the first transition, it makes it so you don't have to free-for-all sometimes when people get confused on who's soaking what.

    On the 2nd transition, assign spots to stand for diffuse lightning, then all you have to do is just collapse/spread accordingly.

    In phase 3, just have all your melee soak all the swirlies every time so you'll never get adds. DPS and heal well, then it's a kill. Good luck.
    Last edited by kappa; 2013-08-19 at 12:52 PM.

  9. #9
    The Patient Meqq's Avatar
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    took around 200 pulls, only took us around 5-10 pulls in p3 before he died, the typical 0.5% wipe was also in there ..

  10. #10
    About 150 wipes for us on 25 and we killed it on May 31st.

    Don't remember exactly how progress went for us, but we got to p3 like 10-15 times or so with enough raid members alive to do stuff before we killed it.

    Transition 1 is def the harder of the 2, at least for us. once you learn transition 2 it's extremely easy to repeat without deaths (or max 1-2 if you spawn 2 diffuses or something).

    Most important thing about p3 imo: Make SURE you have enough ranged out and they're positioned well. We had a lot of wipes leading up to kill and afterwards during farm where people misjudged how close they would be to melee and it spawns in melee and wrecks everyone. Having 2-3 people out of range is WAY better than having ball lightning spawn in melee. Just get single grips/stuns on them ASAP.

  11. #11
    Took us about 60-65 on 10HC about 5-6 weeks ago was the first kill. First transition was the hardest. I notice you say the platforms are always different people, try having them static each time so you know which platform is having problems. Once you can identify which platform is failing you can swap players around to boost the ability on that platform.

    Also make sure everyone understands that the abilities come in a fixed pattern, twice per interval. They shouldn't be grouping for Overload till they see the CL go out. We also assigned specific positions in the circle for each platform in a triangular pattern with the best Helm player at the point at the rear. Every time you're not doing something during transition you return to your specific spot. Try group up 3 immunes on one platform (we had mage, warlock and symiosis clos balance and the balance healed us up during Helm or topped after balls/statics) as we found that better than the immune players randomly having to soak (Though it was sometimes needed).

    Second transition was a lot easier with a 2/6/2 split. The only issue we really had there other than some people not grouping for overloads on the 6, was when the mage on one of the 2s got an add as they're beefy by that point and swing fast for 140k a hit, so I'd have to hike over to the 6 if I got an add so I could be healed.

    We got the kill the second time we saw Phase 2. Just people need to keep in mind the timers and when they need to spread, group or run for Thunderstruck.

  12. #12
    Took us about 150 wipes in 10 man

    Transition 1 was the hardest part of the fight for us, like most. We wasted a lot of tries simply because we would have either 2 death or 1 un-rezzable death at the end of transition 1.

    Phase 2 went more or less ok after we changed our order for this phase (going bouncing just after the first transition since it was a lot safer)

    Transition 2 was more or less ok

    Phase 3 : We had 5 wipes between 0,5 and 2% before killing him. We killed him on the first night we went there with 2 melee dps (none of them having done the fight before). Previously we had only ranged dps (our ranged dps have better attendance and better gear) and having some melee dps make phase 3 a lot easier even if they were ~10 ilvl behind everyone else.
    Last edited by Aerna; 2013-08-19 at 03:18 PM.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Nerfarien's Avatar
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    We killed him in like 170 tires, although it could have been much less actually.
    The biggest issue we had was the inconsistent wipes: some were at 1% some at 50% and it continued through farm a bit, but fortunately it normalized since few weeks and he dies relatively fast as he should.

  14. #14
    For us - before valor upgrade - took 321 wipes. (25 man)

    This is how things looked like:
    - Phase one took a really low amount of time, as this just required a correct raid transitioning between quarter + cooldowns and tanks movement.
    - Transition one was the ONE moment in the fight that caused most of the wipes. I can easily say that it generated 85+% of the wipes.
    - Phase two require a correct positioning of the range + a correct management of mass-grip + stun lock. Took us a few tries to get this properly done in terms of min-max distance between ranged and the boss.
    - Transition two is the same as transition one except with a different management of platforms. This way the second reason for wipes as lightning chains add have the ability to nuke the raid in seconds during a static shock soak.
    - Phase three require proper range positioning and a proper organization of who soak what and where.

    At no point during the process of killing that boss we felt this wasn't do-able. The ONE reason for wipe is personal mistake, as this can easily snowball from one mistake, to a complete platform dying to a wipe.

    A few things that needs to be done is having people know what to do in every single case:
    - Positioning in P1.
    - Positioning in T1 ; calling out if a platform need to soak the static shock all together or if that person can solo soak ; knowing what to do if two bouncing ball are going to fall in the same area ; knowing what to do if two person are in the same bouncing ball void ; knowing what to do if the person next to you is helm of command. The one important thing is to act by reflex and not having to think about what needs to be done. It's a HUGE learning curve but this will ease the fight A LOT.
    - Positioning in P2. Which range are in melee, which aren't? What to do if I'm a range and I got a static shock? Which DK mass-grip when? Call out for additional stun if required. When to be packed / un-packed in the lighting chain quarter ; when to spread out before T2.
    - T2 : we did this one with ALL the raid in a single quarter but 6 peoples handling the two others. In this case you need to have a near perfect positioning in the quarter, as two lighting chain adds can wipe in seconds (3 static shock to soak all together + 2 adds nuking is CRAZY damage). You also need to know which person are replacing the people handling the two other platform after one immune was used.
    - P3 : depending on your number of warlock assign person to the demonic gateway if any are used. This is clearly the BURN phase. Clearing out adds is a huge priority, boss always comes second. This is phase two all other again, except with wind. You need to call out for drood sprint when you can't move from the thunderstruck in time (facing wind), have a proper range / melee positioning so that you don't instantly wipe, following by mass grip + stun. Two important things: the thunderstruck needs to be place far away from the raid. The static shock can't always be soaked by the raid. First two can, after that it's a HUGE risk, so just let the person die alone somewhere. The bouncing ball voids are a top priority. Who-ever is close needs to soak - melee or range does not matter those needs to be soaked.
    If you only have two DK keep one battle rez for them as you will wipe if you can't mass grip every 30 sec.
    You need to have a stun rotation in place. Ideally one monk stun, followed by any other stun. Keep stuning as long as adds are alive.
    Keeping one battle rez for a tank is also a good idea - as you will not be able to finish with only one tank.
    You can aim to a max of 7 thunderstrucks - after that it will be tough.

    The main issue with this boss is : positioning.
    People needs to know what to do and when. You need to have people call out CD, ask for stun, grip, etc... In transition if some adds spawns it is not an issue. Call out your tanks to taunt them and nuke them in the next phase. Lighting chain adds needs to be killed ASAP.

    Good luck

  15. #15
    High Overlord Zyphenz's Avatar
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    Took us 85 tries (4-5 weeks ago). 10man

    We had a whole evening of phase 1 fails because the tanks couldnt time the energy.
    Then we had a shitton of wipes on transition one. Definitely most of our wipes were here.
    Phase 2 wasnt anything special, barely any wipes here.
    Transition 2 was fairly easy as well, we had 2 platforms with tank+melee and 1 platform with everyone else. Was only really a problem if either tankplatforms got hit with EVERYTHING.

    Only reached phase 3 like 5 times before it died. Just gotta get there with everyone alive.

  16. #16
    Epic!
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    Thanks for the input. Seems we might not be doing quite as bad as I had thought, and maybe we'll manage a kill before 5.4 with some luck.

    Keep it coming.

  17. #17
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    It took us just over 230 wipes to kill Heroic Lei Shen on 25 Man. I done some research ahead of time like yourself and found most 25 Man Guilds took between 150-300 wipes whereas 10 Man Guilds had lower like 50-100 wipes. So you knew it was going to be tricky and a big learning experience for everyone in your Raid.

    Phase 1 - We originally used Time Warp to push Phase 1 but moved off it because we knew it's was better for the start of Phase 3 instead of halfway into Phase 3. Wipes in Phase 1 for us just happened when Tanks were originally learning their timings for moving Lei Shen. Or too many Melee DPS died to Crashing Thunder when progression was fresh. Phase 1 was never really an issue for us mostly because of Gear Upgrades making DPS checks a non issue.

    Intermission 1 - People dying would be a result of missing a player or Personal CD for Static Shock. You had the random players go off the edge with Helm of Command but that just required more practice knowing when it was coming (during Bouncing Bolts). Once people learned their spots in quadrants it wasn't too bad and you get to practice this Intermission more than the 2nd because you should get to it every attempt even early in progression.

    Phase 2 - Ball Lightning positioning took awhile for some people to learn. If you don't have enough people out to spawn the Ball Lightnings then a group of them just spawn on the melee and it's a wipe. Using a Range Finder from your Targets helps a lot. If people think they're too close to Lei Shen just have them back up more because it's not too bad if one Ball Lightning flies around if it missed being gripped. Otherwise this Phase was just a small DPS check to kill some Adds while pushing Lei Shen at the right time. Remember if you have amazing AOE like a lot of Demo Warlocks don't make other Classes nerf their single target DPS by AOEing too much.

    Intermission 2 - More people in each quadrant this time. We actually threw most Melee DPS into the same quadrant because they can remain stacked as they're never picked for Diffusion Chain. This Intermission did cause a lot of wipes aswell. Mostly Diffusion Adds wrecking people but we found Rooting them off to the side took them out of the picture and made them a non issue. If you can't Root then we would definitely have them Stunned when people stacked up for an Overcharge or Static Shock. Also if Bouncing Bolts were missed and a lot of Adds were on the Tank we needed to dispel them if they turned green because it means they were Buffed and usually you only had one or two Healers on the Tank during this time.

    Phase 3 - Any wipes we had here we mostly the Thunderstruck being placed too close to Lei Shen. Or someone important (Tank/DK/Warrior) dying and having no Brez. I mentioned Warrior being important because we done the Static Shock & Diffusion Chain Method and needed Warriors for Mass Spell Reflect. We found out if we used more than one Brez before Phase 3 we were probably going to wipe anyway because you need those Brezs for something messing up in Phase 3.

    I think the most wipes I saw for sure was watching my Raid Frames during an Intermission and a majority of a quadrant would drop. We could use all 3 Brezs and carry on with progression but this would only hurt us later in the fight. So while we were still progressing we would do this originally. However when we were getting closer to a kill, if we needed to use 3 Brezs after the 1st Intermission we'd just wipe and save time.

    Good luck with killing Heroic Lei Shen soon though. If you've already put in 200 wipes then you should be getting closer to a kill for sure. Just always stay positive!

  18. #18
    160 wipes. No dk/warlock in 10 man

    P1 - non-issue, took 2-3 wipes for people to figure out transitions from static->diffusion and diffusion->overcharge
    I1 - wiped the most here, until people accepted the fact that they have to pay attention and be responsible for executing their share of mechanics
    P2 - had some wipes to bouncing bolt conduit leveling up (we aimed to push from overcharge to bouncing bolts without leveling overcharge conduit)
    I2 - had tank+melee, tank+melee, 4 range+heals split and I2 came to us easily. Had to make sure that the 6-person quadrant stuns the fuck out of Greater diffused lightnings and doesn't spawn more than 1 and I2 became essentially an easier version of I1
    P3 - We had ~15 wipes in this phase,mostly due to people spawning obscene amounts of adds and learning how to deal with winds/thunderstruck/ball lightning spawn without lock portal

    Good luck on your progress, I think that Blizz will postpone the patch at least for 1 week (just due to raid testing), so you've got some time to snatch the feat of strength before 5.4

  19. #19
    We had over 200 Pulls on it but we were in Killrange after about 70 Trys... our problem was that we had to switch setups a lot of times AND about 100 wipes in the transitionphases which happened because of individual mistakes/not enough concentration and often having to switch positions/having a new player learn the fight because of setup switching.

    With current gear you shouldn't have a problem with Phase 3... after hitting it 2-3 times with 10 people alive everybody should know what to do.
    The easiest Strat in P3 imo is to have TWO Ranged Camps with the Boss in the middle of the room (=not-electified platforms). This way one healer can always stand still before/while Thunderstruck and it will save you 4-5 wipes because of tanks dying. Try to survive first Thunderstruck without CDs and use everything on Thunderstruck/Winds #2+3 if there is a 4th Thunderstruck have raid use Immunities/own CDs.

  20. #20
    Took us 92 attempts (10m) - 536 avg ilvl. After the first night/25 attempts, we were able to make it in P3 about 1 out of every 3 attempts and a kill before 50 attempts was looking very likely. We then lost our BrM and we had to emergency bring in a prot pal that caused about 30+ wipes and also only pulling ~80k DPS while our BrM was around 175k+. We weren't making it consistently into P3 until about pull 75-80, and then killed it after seeing a clean P3 like 5 times.

    Transitions, relatively, went very smoothly for us as only our disc priest could not take a SS by himself. We went with 1/2/3/4 for first transition and I, being in the platform with 4 people, would rocket boot or port over to help soak bouncing balls on the platform with 1 tank if there was a double bouncing bolt spawn or he got helm.

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