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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    He wouldn't have gone out of his way to kill them, but wouldn't be bothered if they died, was what I was trying to say.
    i wouldnt consider that evil at all, that would be completely normal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    despite the Forsaken reporting that they'll need reinforcements.
    reinforcements he didnt have to send, except the hero
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  2. #82
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    When Blizzard hamfisted this story into action.

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taqaroph View Post
    So i'm lvl'ing a blood elf atm and just finished the Stonetalon questline, and I'm wandering does blizzard have just very bad character development or did I miss something?

    This is the dialogue after you drop the bomb on some druid base:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4RTB5LxJ0U
    Can someone explain to me how he became from this crude but honorable warchief to this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzQOyS5TqQ

    Blizzard pretty much stated that he is not corrupted or influenced in any case so wtf?
    Yeah, How unrealistic, Blizzard messing up as usual, Making stuff up that people can change....Wait..... -.-'
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Oh yeah I know it wasn't a civilian target (god not these debates again lol), I'm just saying Garrosh never considered civilians when he was planning to drop the bomb. He wouldn't have gone out of his way to kill them, but wouldn't be bothered if they died, was what I was trying to say.
    Probably. What Krom'gar needed was a good PR spin to say the druids had WMDs, then Garrosh might not have dropped him off the bridge.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-29 at 08:25 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    BS
    Why?
    The Horde established stongholds, that faced repeated assualts but still stand strong, then pushed toward the Dragonblight, isolating Azol Nerub while the Alliance dealt with Naxx.
    Then after the Wrathgate fiasco they went with airships and with the Argent Crusade/Ebon Blade had their grand finale
    Hardly sounds like utter failure to me
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=35941/letter-from-saurfang

    Garrosh was brash and aggressive in Northrend, as he is now. The reason why things didn't go as bad as they are now are due to the help of his advisors, which as you may know, he has now killed/replaced.
    It is unfortunate, then, that Hellscream employs such savage tactics. As victory approaches, Hellscream gains further justification for his methods, which in turn brings us closer to a place we have not been in many years: a dark place.
    This letter tells that Garroshs savage tactics are actually quite effective but that the price for it leads down to a dark road.

    Saurfang helped to defend Warsong Hold after all, Garrosh hasn't done anything wrong in here, if he would have moved in later into Northrend, they would have been even more casualties by the mists, if they would have attacked weeks later, the Horde would have no stronghold in western Northrend as there is no real safe beach to land on except for Valiance Keep.

    People seriously enjoy blaming Garrosh for any military setback that the Horde suffers, even though in the great picture he isn't always the stupid, reckless, general as most people portray him.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  7. #87
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
    I don't really think he's evil. Which is what's so brilliant about the storyline.

    He's just trying to do what's best for his people, and has gotten misguided somewhere.
    Brilliant. What. lol
    The guy wants everything that's not orc dead. And if you're an orc who isn't with him, you're just like everyone else. Dead. And for what reason does he wish to achieve this? The preservation of his race? No. Conquest. He thinks slaughtering all the other races and having supremacy over Azeroth is "his" destiny. The guy is totally evil. How anyone can say otherwise is just wow.
    Look! Words!

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Maybe. What Krom'gar needed was a good PR spin to say the druids had WMDs, then Garrosh might not have dropped him off the bridge.
    think its also worth mentioning that the bomb was originally meant to be used against Windshear Hold, but Gnomeish airpower made that very risky
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Saurfang helped to defend Warsong Hold after all, Garrosh hasn't done anything wrong in here, if he would have moved in later into Northrend, they would have been even more casualties by the mists, if they would have attacked weeks later, the Horde would have no stronghold in western Northrend as there is no real safe beach to land on except for Valiance Keep.

    People seriously enjoy blaming Garrosh for any military setback that the Horde suffers, even though in the great picture he isn't always the stupid, reckless, general as most people portray him.
    Here is the full dialogue between Saurfang and Garrosh in Warsong Hold:

    This is the full transcript of the dialogue between Garrosh and Saurfang:

    High Overlord Saurfang says: We are surrounded ... Our enemies press in from all sides, young Hellscream. The Scourge descends like locusts from the north. The Alliance holds the only secure shipping lane in this region and even that is at risk of being lost to those dreaded mists. Our only viable port for resupply is held by the Forsaken on the other side of this blasted continent! Anything our zeppelins cannot haul must be brought in by ship and travel the length of Northrend to reach us.
    Garrosh Hellscream grunts.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Shipping lanes ... supplies ... You bore me to death! We need nothing more than the warrior spirit of the Horde, Saurfang! Now that we are firmly entrenched in this frozen wasteland, nothing shall stop us!
    High Overlord Saurfang says: Siege engines, ammunition, heavy armor ... How do you propose to shatter the walls of Icecrown without those?
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Propose? I will show you what I propose!

    Garrosh crushes the figures and flag indicating Valiance Keep on the map.

    Garrosh Hellscream says: There... Now we now have a shipping lane. And just for good measure...

    Garrosh crushes the figures and flag indicating Valgarde and Westguard Keep.

    High Overlord Saurfang says: So the prodigal son has spoken! Your father's blood runs strong in you, Hellscream. Impatient as always... Impatient and reckless. You rush headlong into all-out war without a thought of the consequences.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Do not speak to me of consequences, old one.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I drank of the same blood your father did, Garrosh. Mannoroth's cursed venom pumped through my veins as well. I drove my weapons into the bodies and minds of my enemies. And while Grom died a glorious death - freeing us all from the blood curse - he could not wipe away the terrible memory of our past. His act could not erase the horrors we committed.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: The winter after the curse was lifted, hundreds of veteran orcs like me were lost to despair. Our minds were finally free, yes... Free to relive all of the unthinkable acts that we had performed under the Legion's influence.
    High Overlord Saurfang nods.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I think it was the sounds of the draenei children that unnerved most of them... You never forget... Have you ever been to Jaggedswine Farm? When the swine are of age for the slaughter... It's that sound. The sound of the swine being killed... It resonates the loudest. Those are hard times for us older veterans.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!
    High Overlord Saurfang shakes his head.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I am not speaking solely of the children of our enemies...
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes...
    Garrosh Hellscream says: How have you managed to survive for so long, Saurfang? Not fallen victim to your own memories?
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I don't eat pork...
    High Overlord Saurfang spits.
    So yes, Garrosh has been as stupid and bloodthirsty as he is for a while now.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Saurfang helped to defend Warsong Hold after all, Garrosh hasn't done anything wrong in here,
    Well technically, moving into Northrend at all was exactly what the Lich King wanted them to do.........
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #91
    When Blizzard realized they didn't know how to make players hate him without making him into a total caricature of a villain.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Why?
    The Horde established stongholds, that faced repeated assualts but still stand strong, then pushed toward the Dragonblight, isolating Azol Nerub while the Alliance dealt with Naxx.
    Then after the Wrathgate fiasco they went with airships and with the Argent Crusade/Ebon Blade had their grand finale
    Hardly sounds like utter failure to me
    There's a short story on the WoW webpage relating to Garrosh's time in Northrend. More specifically, the assault on one of the Icecrown gates that went horribly wrong.

    One of his commanders spotted Alliance fighting to capture the gate from the Scourge. The commander saw fit to attack the Alliance instead of assisting in taking the gate. The result was both the Alliance AND Horde were all killed, save one alliance and one horde who are then taken to the Argent Crusade's new tower to recover.

    Garrosh's forces were far from failures in Northrend, don't get me wrong. But their tactics were brash, and the war had no place in an area where every fallen soldier is another warrior gained for the enemy. Thrall was in sight, so Garrosh was forced to reprimand the commander of the forces in the short story. But even then, he never tells them it was wrong to fight the Alliance; Only that attacking warriors already engaged in combat is cowardly.

  13. #93
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    you lot really need to listen to the developers, you know, the guys who actually write, plan and design this game and its story.

    Kosak said in his latest interview, that garrosh was always a bad seed, and that seed just grew and grew over time. He didn't just 'BECOME EVIL' overnight, it happened progressively. Most of you just ignored the signs that were there.

    Real testament to the poor judges of character many wow players have.

  14. #94
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    you lot really need to listen to the developers, you know, the guys who actually write, plan and design this game and its story.

    Kosak said in his latest interview, that garrosh was always a bad seed, and that seed just grew and grew over time. He didn't just 'BECOME EVIL' overnight, it happened progressively. Most of you just ignored the signs that were there.

    Real testament to the poor judges of character many wow players have.
    Yeah people also seem to think that everything that happens in WoW, quests etc seem to happen all on the same day, They reference this stonelaton quest like it happend 4hours before he got the heart into the vale, People need to realise that the quests and story in WoW is over a long time span, and plenty of people change over time, and if you look, you can see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  15. #95
    Pandaren Monk gypsybob's Avatar
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    When Blizzard decided that making a likable new Orc character was too much effort.

  16. #96
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    Yeah people also seem to think that everything that happens in WoW, quests etc seem to happen all on the same day, They reference this stonelaton quest like it happend 4hours before he got the heart into the vale, People need to realise that the quests and story in WoW is over a long time span, and plenty of people change over time, and if you look, you can see it.
    The funny thing is, the story developers and writers themselves reference the similarities Garrosh has to Arthas, even doing so in the novels, because, just like Arthas and his slow progression from beloved prince to deranged despot, to deathknight and right up to lich king, that happened over time too, he went from a noble prince to the most twisted bastard on azeroth. Garrosh is from the same page as Arthas, it happened over time, there was always something bad in him, but people ignored it, maybe even hoping something good could come of him over time, yet it just fanned the flame of his wicked nature.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    When Blizzard decided that making a likable new Orc character was too much effort.
    see you've just been one of those guys that don't want to listen to what the devs tell you, you just want to interpret it all for your own to make sense of it all.

  17. #97
    Pandaren Monk gypsybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post

    see you've just been one of those guys that don't want to listen to what the devs tell you, you just want to interpret it all for your own to make sense of it all.
    The devs said pre cata that they would be working to make garrosh more likable and they didn't. They just decided to chuck it all for the sake of a new raid

  18. #98
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    The devs said pre cata that they would be working to make garrosh more likable and they didn't. They just decided to chuck it all for the sake of a new raid
    Do you ever take into account the devs will tell you something just to throw you off the scent.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Garrosh's forces were far from failures in Northrend, don't get me wrong. But their tactics were brash, and the war had no place in an area where every fallen soldier is another warrior gained for the enemy.
    Ai, but still a far cry from the claims
    Plus, its a bit of a tall order to expect people to forget the years or hatrd, resentment, and even ourright warfare because 'ooo, look, undead'
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    The devs said pre cata that they would be working to make garrosh more likable and they didn't. They just decided to chuck it all for the sake of a new raid
    They did work to make Garrosh more likeable - see Stonetalon.

    It didn't take. Garrosh remained unpopular. So rather than spend more time on a character that just isn't working, they decided to cut their losses and fast forward his story so they could move on to things that might actually be well-received. It wasn't just "chuck it all for the sake of a new raid."

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