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  1. #101
    Mechagnome Leviatharan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
    He's just trying to do what's best for his people, and has gotten misguided somewhere.
    I'm not even sure that's accurate.
    In the Stonetalon questline, he came to the defense of a tauren druid, punished officers for threatening innocent lives, and was absolutely horrified by Sylvanas' pragmatism. Sure, he was willing to do what he needed to preserve the Horde, but he was beginning to see why Thrall wanted to avert a war.
    Come Mists of Pandaria, he doesn't want anything to do with Tauren (or any Horde race, including half of the orcs of the Horde), bombed the neutral settlement of Theramore and is willing to risk the whole of Pandaria/Azeroth to beat the Alliance in a conflict primarily escalated by him. He's not carving out a spot in the world for the Horde, he's remaking the world for his legacy.

    He jumped from mopey and pathetic in TBC, to brash and impulsive in Wrath, to brash and honorable in Cata... to cartoonishly evil in MoP. All of his character development just dropped out from under his feet without any real catalyst.
    They had the potential to turn Garrosh from facepalm-worthy jackass to a genuinely decent character who represents a coming-of-age perspective over the course of these expansions, whose aspirations of glorious battle could have died off in favor of maturity and wise leadership, but then they just destroyed his motivations for everything for the sake of killing him off.
    It's not just Garrosh's character development that's disgusting either, it undermines Thrall's judgment in letting him lead the Horde, turning Thrall from a wise leader vying for peace into a complete moron over the course of one decision (two, if you include Gallywix). It undermines the entirety of the orc race's philosophies for ever listening to Garrosh. It undermines the rest of the Horde's leadership for ever putting trust in Thrall.
    Leviatharan - Level 90 Blood Elf Unholy/Frost Death Knight - Inscription/Herbalism - <Summit> - Drak'Tharon US

    Now author of Morbid Musings, a blog dedicated to DK theorycraft.

  2. #102
    Stood in the Fire DaHomieG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taqaroph View Post
    So i'm lvl'ing a blood elf atm and just finished the Stonetalon questline, and I'm wandering does blizzard have just very bad character development or did I miss something?

    This is the dialogue after you drop the bomb on some druid base:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4RTB5LxJ0U
    Can someone explain to me how he became from this crude but honorable warchief to this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzQOyS5TqQ

    Blizzard pretty much stated that he is not corrupted or influenced in any case so wtf?
    He became this evil when he saw your grammar.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviatharan View Post
    It's not just Garrosh's character development that's disgusting either, it undermines Thrall's judgment in letting him lead the Horde,
    you have to remmeber when Thrall initially appointted Garrosh it was not a permenant post - it was supposed to be temporary
    As such he was looking for a figure head to keep the spirits of the Horde high for a few months

    But as with many things in WoW, nothing goes according to plan
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  4. #104
    Metzen doesn't like to see someone taking his(Thrall) place.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviatharan View Post
    bombed the neutral settlement of Theramore
    Theramore was not and never was neutral

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leviatharan View Post
    They had the potential to turn Garrosh from facepalm-worthy jackass to a genuinely decent character who represents a coming-of-age perspective over the course of these expansions, whose aspirations of glorious battle could have died off in favor of maturity and wise leadership, but then they just destroyed his motivations for everything for the sake of killing him off.
    Sounds like Varian's story
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #106
    Mechagnome Leviatharan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Theramore was not and never was neutral
    Yeah, it actually was for the most part. Jaina and Thrall had an even stronger truce going on than some of the Horde races did (to the point of being shipper-ific), and for the most part tried to stay out of the conflict between the Alliance and Horde, even trying to be a mediator between Thrall and Varian (ruined somewhat by Garrosh) and volunteering Theramore as a location for a peace summit. She only devoted herself entirely to the Alliance cause after Garrosh blew Theramore up.

    It was being guarded heavily by Alliance officers because of the harbor, and nothing more.
    Leviatharan - Level 90 Blood Elf Unholy/Frost Death Knight - Inscription/Herbalism - <Summit> - Drak'Tharon US

    Now author of Morbid Musings, a blog dedicated to DK theorycraft.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviatharan View Post
    and volunteering Theramore as a location for a peace summit. She only devoted herself entirely to the Alliance cause after Garrosh blew Theramore up.
    Despite that, Theramore was always part of the Alliance, and its forces were activly attacking the Horde in the Barrens and Durotar during Cataclysm
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Leviatharan View Post
    Yeah, it actually was for the most part. Jaina and Thrall had an even stronger truce going on than some of the Horde races did (to the point of being shipper-ific), and for the most part tried to stay out of the conflict between the Alliance and Horde, even trying to be a mediator between Thrall and Varian (ruined somewhat by Garrosh) and volunteering Theramore as a location for a peace summit. She only devoted herself entirely to the Alliance cause after Garrosh blew Theramore up.

    It was being guarded heavily by Alliance officers because of the harbor, and nothing more.
    To be fair, Theramore is pretty heavily involved with the Alliance offensive in the Southern Barrens.

  9. #109
    The Patient
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    Pretty much when blizzard changed his story half way in and make him do a 180

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Taqaroph View Post
    So i'm lvl'ing a blood elf atm and just finished the Stonetalon questline, and I'm wandering does blizzard have just very bad character development or did I miss something?

    This is the dialogue after you drop the bomb on some druid base:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4RTB5LxJ0U
    Can someone explain to me how he became from this crude but honorable warchief to this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzQOyS5TqQ

    Blizzard pretty much stated that he is not corrupted or influenced in any case so wtf?
    Simple, Garrosh was simply waiting for the opportune moment to strike and before this he made an example of whoever "failed" him to instill fear and respect in those around him by the example.

    Keep in mind that after the Bomb was dropped he also ready to cut off your head. This same thing happens after Ashenvale with Garrosh and in the Kun'Lai Summit when he threatens the Blood Elf for "Reminding him that the Mogu was needed alive" to learn the location of the Divine Bell. He has manipulated the Horde this way. Now as a united group the other Members of the Horde have made it clear they will not live in fear of their own government he is keeping his old promise.

    So again to sum up he hasn't changed. The only ones who have changed is the Horde who are finally tired of his bullshit.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    Yeah people also seem to think that everything that happens in WoW, quests etc seem to happen all on the same day, They reference this stonelaton quest like it happend 4hours before he got the heart into the vale, People need to realise that the quests and story in WoW is over a long time span, and plenty of people change over time, and if you look, you can see it.
    Each expansion takes place over a year. So from the beginning of Cata to now is almost 2 years.

    Originally Posted by Chris Metzen
    Alright. So, Deathwings death to Theramore's event is a year?
    More like DW death till end of Pandaria is a year. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  12. #112
    it has all gone a bit mental.

    like in the SoO cinematic where he kicks the heart into the vale (killing Zhu in the process) killing large amounts of neutral panderen and probably horde and Alliance alike in the process because.. errr.. he thought it would be fun at the time?

  13. #113
    Why can't people just say the very simple answer: Because of poor storytelling

    Blizzard never knew what they wanted with Garrosh

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Why can't people just say the very simple answer: Because of poor storytelling

    Blizzard never knew what they wanted with Garrosh
    They plan out the story multiple expansions ahead... They had MoP's broad strokes planned out since at least WotLK.

    Paul Sams in March 2012: "I got the pitch from Chris Metzen of what they plan for 6.0 and I'm pretty geeked up about it. They already know what they're going to be doing for multiple expansions ahead."
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-29 at 10:14 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They plan out the story multiple expansions ahead... They had MoP's broad strokes planned out since at least WotLK.

    Paul Sams in March 2012: "I got the pitch from Chris Metzen of what they plan for 6.0 and I'm pretty geeked up about it. They already know what they're going to be doing for multiple expansions ahead."
    Some quotes, in their defense, have been really iffy though. For example, when MoP was getting released, there was a quote saying not to worry because anything they'd ever done with Pandaren before then was just for short stories or jokes. They also claimed their plan with MoP was to not have a big bad; I can't recall exactly when that quote was from, but it was sometime during Cataclysm. So to have planned multiple expansions, but tell us two things that are clearly not true is a bit misleading.

    I do believe they have multiple expansions planned out in advance. Just I feel they deliberately tell us a lot that isn't true to try and make it a 'surprise' when it happens. No big bad of MoP my ass, anyone could have seen Garrosh as the main bad guy from 5.0.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Some quotes, in their defense, have been really iffy though. For example, when MoP was getting released, there was a quote saying not to worry because anything they'd ever done with Pandaren before then was just for short stories or jokes. They also claimed their plan with MoP was to not have a big bad; I can't recall exactly when that quote was from, but it was sometime during Cataclysm. So to have planned multiple expansions, but tell us two things that are clearly not true is a bit misleading.

    I do believe they have multiple expansions planned out in advance. Just I feel they deliberately tell us a lot that isn't true to try and make it a 'surprise' when it happens. No big bad of MoP my ass, anyone could have seen Garrosh as the main bad guy from 5.0.
    Things change. They didn't know what to do for the end of MoP and they decided on finishing the Garrosh story because it wasn't really working anyway.

  17. #117
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    For example, there are several people in this thread asserting that the entire concept of the Siege of Orgrimmar is flawed from a story perspective, particularly for the Alliance. Well, we knew Siege of Orgrimmar would be the final raid of Mists of Pandaria before the expansion was revealed at BlizzCon 2011, and the story framework for how we'd get there was already more or less in place. So, even when we do react directly to feedback about story concerns, we're looking much more at the big picture here, and what stories we want to tell and how they should unfold over the course of several patches (or even expansions).

    We can make some tweaks and refine some story arcs along the way, but regardless of the discussions taking place right now, the 5.4 story is set. It has been for quite some time. That's in big contrast to the aspects of systems design that draw the most discussion (i.e. mainly class balance). (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviatharan View Post
    Sure, he was willing to do what he needed to preserve the Horde, but he was beginning to see why Thrall wanted to avert a war.
    .
    Unlikely, Garrosh had started to consider Thrall too timid and pacifistic within his first week or two within the Horde

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    (killing Zhu in the process) he thought it would be fun at the time?
    Taran Zhu isnt dead, just wounded and captive
    And he did it to 'awaken' the Heart and to lure the armies of the world
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Taqaroph View Post
    So i'm lvl'ing a blood elf atm and just finished the Stonetalon questline, and I'm wandering does blizzard have just very bad character development or did I miss something?

    This is the dialogue after you drop the bomb on some druid base:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4RTB5LxJ0U
    Can someone explain to me how he became from this crude but honorable warchief to this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzQOyS5TqQ

    Blizzard pretty much stated that he is not corrupted or influenced in any case so wtf?
    I'm still trying to figure out where he became a barbarian in the first place.

    As I wrote it in another thread prior:

    Step 1) Garrosh: "Waaaaah! My father dishonored the Orcs!"
    Step 2) Thrall: "No... in the end your father saved our race and is a hero"
    Step 3) Garrosh: "really!? YAY!!!!"
    Step 4) ????
    Step 5) Garrosh: "DEATH TO THE ALLIANCE DOGS!!!!!"

    The answer to this and your question is sadly probably very very simple... sloppy writing.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviatharan View Post
    He jumped from mopey and pathetic in TBC, to brash and impulsive in Wrath
    Its a jmup, but its one that makes sense
    Garrosh is a Hellscream, which he means he has to be head strong and aggressive, only reason he wsnt in Nagrand was because of the legacy of his father. So once Thrall takes that burden off him guess whats left?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Step 5) Garrosh: "DEATH TO THE ALLIANCE DOGS!!!!!"
    He feelings toward the Alliance stem from them defeating and enslaving his people during the Second War. And they being the primary obstacle to the level of power/glory/prosperity he feels the Horde deserves
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

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