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  1. #1

    flex doable without voice chat?

    I am going to organize weekly flex raids in 5.4. I intend to go without vent sine they said the difficulty is comparable to ICC10 back in the day and that went fine without vent. Is flex doable without vent or do I need it?
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  2. #2
    Don't need it at all.
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  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    You could make it easier with voice chat, but of course its doable without voice chat, everything in the game is, Lei Shen 25 HC is doable without voice chat. It will just take you alot more wipes and alot of wipes you could easily avoid with voice chat, but eventually after 1000, 1500 or so wipes, you might get the kill
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  4. #4
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I'm sure it would be doable but from what I've read it's the same mechanics as normal just nerfed (so no "Lol it doesn't do this part in LFR, so you won't know about that part in Normal" e.g. Durumu's Force of Will, Lei Shen's Fusion Slash) so voice chat would probably help a lot as you'd still have to coordinate.
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  5. #5
    It's easier to get random people to pay attention with voice chat. If you have people who are smart enough to read /rw, who looked up the strats ahead of time, who are willing to wait to listen to ALL of the instructions ahead of time, you should be all right. However each of the first four fights has something that I'd prefer to communicate through voice rather than through /rw

    The first fight on flex will need some pre-work for positioning. This usually goes faster with voice chat.

    The second fight needs dps to stop and switch to specific other targets at certain points. This usually goes faster with voice chat.

    The third fight needs individuals to use portals to go to a different realm over the course of the fight, and you'll probably want to decide on the fly who is going when and if you want to hold off because you have too many adds up. This would probably be more smooth with voice chat.

    The fourth fight probably doesn't need voice chat if your healers are on the ball and can pay attention to who has the buff. Also, it needs people to stay spread out unless they have the buff, and you need two fast-reacting people to break others out of prison. This would probably be more smooth with voice chat.

    So it's not necessary, especially if you have good players, but I think voice chat will increase your chances of success.

  6. #6
    You SHOULD use voice chat, u will save a lot of time, whenever u pug assume most of the people are idiots and needs to be talked to like they r 5
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  7. #7
    Everything in the game is doable without voice chat, no exceptions.

    It might take longer, yes, but eventually it can be done

  8. #8
    Mechagnome
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    I won't bother wiping in a flex group with no voice chat, At least for the first few months. Nobody will know the tactics so you need to tell people strat every boss. Voice chat is really not that hard to find. If you use openraid chat/event you can always use their vent for free. I think it's possible to get your own mumble sever for free but it's also very likely one of the 8-25 people are in a raiding guild or something that have a free voice chat to use.

    Worst case: Use skype (At least you have a voice chat, Hopefully someone will step in an offer a vent, ts, mumble server before you finished setting up skype..

    Worst worst worst case: In-game voice chat, I have used this one time in a pug and it's reaaaaalllllly bad but still better then typing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelond View Post
    I won't bother wiping in a flex group with no voice chat, At least for the first few months. Nobody will know the tactics so you need to tell people strat every boss. Voice chat is really not that hard to find. If you use openraid chat/event you can always use their vent for free. I think it's possible to get your own mumble sever for free but it's also very likely one of the 8-25 people are in a raiding guild or something that have a free voice chat to use.

    Worst case: Use skype (At least you have a voice chat, Hopefully someone will step in an offer a vent, ts, mumble server before you finished setting up skype..

    Worst worst worst case: In-game voice chat, I have used this one time in a pug and it's reaaaaalllllly bad but still better then typing.
    is the ingame voice chat still horrible? what's the issue with it?
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  10. #10
    Blademaster Duffie's Avatar
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    From my own experiences i would say its 50/50. I have been in guilds/pugs where you must have vent and others where it's optional.

    I say make it optional to use vent or other VOIPs and have it be more social rather than mandatory "im the raid leader only i speak".

    When i join pug vents i tent to no talk at all in the first place unless i know a few of the people i am running with. Other than that if it's old content then vent is optional, if its progressions i would like everyone on the same page.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    is the ingame voice chat still horrible? what's the issue with it?
    The inherant problem (in my opinion) with any ingame voice chat is that if your game client acts up, your chat will act up too. So if, as is common in the first week of a patch, you have an addon giving trouble and locking up your game client you would also lose the ability to warn your raid that you're having this problem.

    It's also much much faster to sign in to vent/mumble than it is to sign in to the game itself. If someone disconnects, has their system rebooted by Windows Update, accidentally kicks over their router, etc, you'll know that they haven't ragequit much sooner. "Please don't kick me out, I'm on the loading screen..."
    Last edited by Ninotchka; 2013-08-30 at 05:17 PM.

  12. #12
    i used to lead 71 person raids in EQ without voice chat or timers. I also walked up hill 3 times in the snow

    /shakes cane

  13. #13
    voice chat is for babysitting, nothing else. when EVERYONE knows their roles and what everyone else's role is, there is nothing to say. you don't need to be told when to taunt, innervate, swap targets, etc

    i wish they'd get rid of DBM and ban for using voice chat

    i hate voice chat

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    I don't understand why people wouldn't want to use voice chat. For me personally I hate having to type anything during a raid. I'd rather just talk and continue on with what I was doing. If your pugging expect no one to be perfect so your going to need to help people out at points.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schicklgruber View Post
    voice chat is for babysitting, nothing else. when EVERYONE knows their roles and what everyone else's role is, there is nothing to say. you don't need to be told when to taunt, innervate, swap targets, etc

    i wish they'd get rid of DBM and ban for using voice chat

    i hate voice chat
    So all raiders should be banned?

  15. #15
    There are plenty of reasons not to insist on talking over voice chat. If you have hearing-impaired raiders on your team, or if you have a raider who can't talk because their computer is in the same room as a sleeping spouse, or if you have a raider who doesn't want to talk because they're self-conscious about an accent or a lisp. Also, plenty of people like hearing the sounds that the raid makes, and voice chat knocks them out of the immersion. Lots of times I really don't want to hear our fire mage bitching because he mistimed a Combustion.

    Flex raid is likely to be doable without voice chat. It's just likely to be easier with voice chat, for the reasons I outlined above.

    If you have a group of pro raiders, it's likely you'll be able to succeed in flex without voice chat. Or sobriety. Or cooldowns, after the first week or so.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Nivena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schicklgruber View Post
    voice chat is for babysitting, nothing else. when EVERYONE knows their roles and what everyone else's role is, there is nothing to say. you don't need to be told when to taunt, innervate, swap targets, etc

    i wish they'd get rid of DBM and ban for using voice chat

    i hate voice chat
    me too, that's why I always say I don't have a microphone....I always tell them me listening is enough. I really hope that flex can be done without voice chat if everyone knows the tactics.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by schicklgruber View Post
    voice chat is for babysitting, nothing else. when EVERYONE knows their roles and what everyone else's role is, there is nothing to say. you don't need to be told when to taunt, innervate, swap targets, etc
    So you want every healer to monitor each other's mana at all times. Exactly how much of the screen do you think should still be visible behind all those additional raid bars?

    i wish they'd get rid of DBM
    An argument can be made that DBM has "dumbed down the raider to relying on a third party to tell them when to do their job" but it certainly cuts down on human error. Protip: We're all humans here.

  18. #18
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    I'm sure it's doable, but voice chat helps a ton on new content while everyone is learning, especially with PuGs. If nothing else, it makes explanations a lot faster.

    It's hard to tell though since most of the flex testing on the PTR was horribly overtuned.
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  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    It's borderline between the middle of LFR and normal of course OP however as this Dinosaur thingie has stated it was overtuned intentionally from what I read on there forum.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidbozz View Post
    I don't understand why people wouldn't want to use voice chat. For me personally I hate having to type anything during a raid. I'd rather just talk and continue on with what I was doing. If your pugging expect no one to be perfect so your going to need to help people out at points.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So all raiders should be banned?
    all raiders would adapt. you must have not been around when there was uproar over blizz breaking that addons that highlighted where the bad stuff was gonna be on the ground so you could just avoid it altogether

    i'd say 25% of this game is being played by addons

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    So you want every healer to monitor each other's mana at all times. Exactly how much of the screen do you think should still be visible behind all those additional raid bars?



    An argument can be made that DBM has "dumbed down the raider to relying on a third party to tell them when to do their job" but it certainly cuts down on human error. Protip: We're all humans here.
    come on, mana management died 4 years ago in this game, how about this, when you take the undergeared shit healer, you probably know he'll be the guy to innervate 3 mins into the fight

    just tell your druid to be ready to take 1 second out of his life to do it, problem solved. druid's responsibility. not complicated. so easy a southerner could do it

    there are hacks that cut down on human error too, the point is to push as far as blizz lets you. if they broke DBM people may have to actually learn the fights and be aware

    it's 100% possible, it's how people used to play games

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