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  1. #1

    Some encouraging news for Destro locks in 5.4 finally

    Lore posted this about CB getting a slight damage adjustment.




    We agree that Destruction is a bit low in 5.4. We also recognize that, particularly after the Kil'Jaeden's Cunning changes, Chaos Bolt has become a "riskier" spell to cast. To both ends, we think a Chaos Bolt buff is in order. We're going to bring it up by 15% and see where that puts things.

    Our general philosophy for Destruction in 5.4 is that casting Chaos Bolt can be tricky sometimes -- working around interrupts and LOS in PvP, or sneaking them in between periods of movement in PvE -- but when the cast goes off, it hurts. A lot. We do have to be careful not to push things TOO far, but we'll see how things go from here.

    This change was applied via hotfix sometime yesterday, so it should already be live on the PTR if you'd like to get some testing in.
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  2. #2
    Mechagnome Narwhalosh Whalescream's Avatar
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  3. #3
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  4. #4
    its nice but no where near enough to make destro viable on single target tho.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire JV Chequer's Avatar
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    Just an illusion fix, the main problem it's the ember regen right now, if they really wanna fix Destro they need both increase dmg and the ember issue.
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  6. #6
    A 15% buff is cool and all but without the ember regen from ROF, we still lose the maximum amount of CBs. To fix this there should be a cast reduction on chaosbolt or simply take away the embers and put in place a molten core proc for chaosbolt, like it was back in the WOTLK hybrid spec. Though I am not really happy with the 15% it still is a move in the right direction and shows that they want to fix destro. The main problem for them is trying to balance it for pvp, but with that destro is already nerfed in pvp because of the simple fact of KJC being nerfed. How can one cast chaosbolt without moving if the enemy is attacking him/her? Less Chaosbolt in pvp and pve doesn't seem as if it is the best thing to do.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JV Chequer View Post
    Just an illusion fix, the main problem it's the ember regen right now, if they really wanna fix Destro they need both increase dmg and the ember issue.
    Emphasis on the important part. Ember generation needs to get fixed or costs need to be adjusted.
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  8. #8
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendro1200 View Post
    Emphasis on the important part. Ember generation needs to get fixed or costs need to be adjusted.
    Then your going to the kids crying about it on pvp lol

  9. #9
    The Patient Paarthurnax's Avatar
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    Ember generation is a moot point if the damage is where it needs to be according to Blizzard. Allot of top end locks are already echoing that affliction/destro are looking better then demo going into SoO hard modes. That's not bad for a spec some people are calling dead in the water atm.

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  10. #10
    i honestly could care less about the damage increase to chaos bolt. if our ember generation is still gonna be left alone after that rain of fire change then it doesn't change the underlying issue with destro. which is ember generation

  11. #11
    The Patient Ogawdspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonik View Post
    underlying issue with destro. which is ember generation
    This... A seemingly small buff to a spell is wasted if we are unable to cast it very often.
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  12. #12
    to be honest i like the idea of reducing the emberreg, as long ad the dmg of the spells gets buffed

    one thing i dislike about destro is chaosbolts dont feel special at all, it became just an advanced filler you can cast every 5 to 10secs


    but 15% wont be enough

  13. #13
    I wouldn't mind them reducing ember gen to buff damage if it wasn't impossible to balance that way in Blizz's eyes. Like you said, keeping our ember gen like it is and buffing Chaos Bolt enough to compensate would fix our single-target DPS while making Chaos Bolt feel like a special nuke. But Blizz has always had a problem with CB hitting that hard. The only way is to buff ember gen, not because that's the only way to fix the problem, but because it's the way Blizz would want want to fix it.

  14. #14
    They have a Chaos Bolt specific pvp knob they can tweak. I still don't think it's officially documented in any patch notes, just blue posts (and even then only after they got called out for the stealth nerf). Just increase its pve damage even more, and decrease its pvp damage by the same amount, if they don't want people crying about being unable to interrupt or LoS a 3-second cast.

  15. #15
    The Patient Ogawdspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    if they don't want people crying about being unable to interrupt or LoS a 3-second cast.
    Which is one thing that has always disappointed me about the player base.. SO many people cry CB is too strong when it is notthat hard to Juke or Kick. It's just butt hurt people who are unable to do it..
    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    In fact, I'd argue $100 for a bottle of scotch to drink while you're building it would be the best use of your money - but then, who wouldn't?

  16. #16
    If devs are leaving ember generation at "intended" without RoF they would need to buff both CB and shadowburn (not to mention ember tap) 30%+ to break even. Thus I don't see a 15% buff to CB (a 3-4% dmg increase) and immolate's 1%'ish gain offsetting that. Still no fix to scaling of either primary or especially secondary stats. So while the 15% buff to CB is a good thing no doubt...its still a drop in the bucket in terms of keeping the spec on par with other locks specs or competing vs the other classes.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Paarthurnax View Post
    Ember generation is a moot point if the damage is where it needs to be according to Blizzard.
    In SoO ember generation is alright, and the buff to chaos bolt can be worked about as a band aid fix for single target. But in everything pre-SoO, the ember generation issues are very important. The chaos bolt buff was to give the same amount of damage over a time period in single target situations without buffing embers, but, that doesn't fix 3-5 target scenarios, and it cripples 4 target aoe rotations to simply single target immolate spam while RoF is up, because you won't be able to keep the embers to use FnB. (a huge drop in QoL, imagine aff having vanilla corruption in 5.4, 1.5 second cast time iirc, just because Blizz figures a cast time on corruption will kill off dot cleave power and make it less desirable, but they buff damage in MG and DS and call it a day) Now while you may think that's a very specific scenario and why should it even be a concern, it is a specific case, but it's also a common case. It's the case for nearly all content outside of raiding and pvp, open world, dungeons, scenarios. That's a huge chunk of content that people still need/want to run even in 5.4.
    Destro is doing better in SoO, although adjustments to PPM trinkets, the loss of unending affliction glyph and the loss of the legendary meta helps the most with that. Destro's biggest issue of smooth ember generation needs to be fixed though at the moment, apart from the single target RoF issue, Destro's ember generation is pretty managable. The 5.4 changes are ruining that to fix an unintended slight dps gain.
    I've mentioned it before and I'll say it again, if I had to chose between Destro pre-5.4 and post-5.4 I'd pick pre-5.4 simply because pre-5.4 actually works and has only one quirk rather than kinda work and have 50 quirks.
    Last edited by kendro1200; 2013-08-31 at 09:51 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogawdspider View Post
    Which is one thing that has always disappointed me about the player base.. SO many people cry CB is too strong when it is notthat hard to Juke or Kick. It's just butt hurt people who are unable to do it..
    Except during bulwark, which is actually a very common tactic. Sure, long-ish cooldown, but it still allows for those moments where the enemy is unable to do anything against it (think of how common it actually is that you'll be fighting a lock and there's no object to LoS around available). I'm not complaining about that, just trying to say that it's hardly a case of people being butthurt.

    As others said, the ember generation, without being countered for the 'loss of RoF', will be too low. Right now, RoF is somewhat mandatory for maximizing damage over the course of a fight and you're really gimping yourself if you rely on your standard single target abilities alone for ember gen. No amount of damage buffs will really change that - if they buff it too much, PVP goes completely off the rails, and if they don't buff it enough, when you do get to cast it, the damage is 'pitiful'.

    I don't think changing the cost would work. Although the game lists up to '40 embers' as a resource, the entire premise around destro is using 1 ember for a major spell, not half an ember. I mean, I wouldn't be opposed to that as 8 CB's for 4 embers would be pretty sweet, but it'd feel out of line with what Blizzard has done with the spec. As such, increasing generation is really the only way to go.

    Obviously, doing this through incinerate would be the most obvious solution, but perhaps allowing every tick of immolate to generate embers, and crits to generate double, would lead to more steady ember generation as you can guarantee how often the ability will tick. This would also serve the benefit of scaling with haste (and implied, with Bloodlust/Heroism), allowing more chaos bolts, but also increasing the value of haste for destro (perhaps even bringing it in line with, or above the value of crit).
    [...]

  19. #19
    Crit just tapers as a valuable stat so rapidly and destro hits the gcd like a short woman's cervix w' the legendary meta (or really any powerful haste proc/CD) so that's 2 secondary stats of limited value. Also darksoul's 30% crit is much weaker than demo or aff's darksoul. You would have to probably make destro's darksoul be 30% crit dmg multiplier as well as 30% crit buff or just a flat dmg gain w' the 30% crit.

    RoF was the bulk of 5.3's haste scaling for destro so even apart from the ember loss the reduced dps gain from haste makes it even harder to gear or balance destro. When its a very real possibility that the legendary meta is a LOSS for destro in 5.4 that should be a massive red flag to blizz the mechanics need changing.

    CB being buffed has pvp side effects but its still the longest in combat cast in the game. As much instant CC as teams have now if you get a all CD's CB off vs a team of similar MMR someone **** the bed badly on the other team. Compared to 4x instant 100K auto crit pyros, hunter burst, etc its really not that much damage and its infinitely easier to prevent. I'd almost like to see something like backlash allowing the next CB cast to be treated as backdrafted, uninterruptable, and mobile. Locks need to be able to use CB more readily in pvp vs it being a binary win/lose cast. That model isn't fun for the lock who is perpetually frustrated trying to cast it and frustrating for the victim when the cast does go off. Maybe change backdrafted CB's to be uninterruptable (like a hunter shot)?

  20. #20
    Am I the only one who actually likes the idea of embers being a commodity?

    I'd like it better if it was "hey cool, time for a chaos bolt!" rather than "OMG, WHY CAN'T I FUCKING CAST CHAOS BOLT"

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