Page 1 of 13
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,181

    Why do people want Lordaeron back?

    If you tell me just because you "want it" I get it, I want high elves myself.

    But if you try to tell me there is actually a reason why would the alliance throw money to that cesspool of death on an ill-concieved campaign to reclaim a kingdom deader than its last King I'm gonna flip a table.

    Tell me one, one viable, material victory the alliance would accomplish that justified retaking Lordaeron. Not nostalgia, not "moral victories", no; a real reason why a campaign for Lordaeron would benefit the alliance as a whole and justified its cost.

    Because this is not retaking any place, this is the Kingdom of the living dead that can turn humans into their own. I really want to know what people think would merit that campaing. There is so many people always talking about it, that I must be missing something, and I'm legit curious.
    Last edited by TheDangerZone; 2013-08-31 at 02:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Legendary! Quetzl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Mass, US
    Posts
    6,602
    Forsaken are meanie-faces who killed a lot of good guys!

    jk undead for life stay chilly

  3. #3
    Because Stormwind is boring as hell and they think reclaiming Lordaeron will make humans less boring.

    Of course it's not really reclaiming Lordaeron since Lordaeron is already in the hands of it's rightful owners.

  4. #4
    - Obliterate the Forsaken
    - Destroy the most prominent Horde threat in the Eastern Kingdoms
    - Claim the rightful lands and restore the seven kingdoms

    The Alliance would be safer with Lordaeron under human rule than with an undead threat to the North

    edit: Revenge is always a good but not really viable motive

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    8,106
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Because Stormwind is boring as hell and they think reclaiming Lordaeron will make humans less boring.

    Of course it's not really reclaiming Lordaeron since Lordaeron is already in the hands of it's rightful owners.
    It's in the hands of the people of Lordaeron that didn't actually get away and a random elf that was put in charge.


    Anyway, the real answer to retake it? To piss off Forsaken fanboys.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #6
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,181
    Quote Originally Posted by Laeneia View Post
    - Obliterate the Forsaken
    - Destroy the most prominent Horde threat in the Eastern Kingdoms
    - Claim the rightful lands and restore the seven kingdoms

    The Alliance would be safer with Lordaeron under human rule than with an undead threat to the North

    edit: Revenge is always a good but not really viable motive
    - Obliterate the Forsaken: Why?

    - Destroy the most prominent Horde threat in the Eastern Kingdoms: More like it. These two make one. Getting rid of an enemy is as good as a reason as any. The problem with this is does it justifies the cost? victory is the goal, not the indisputable result. Specially against an enemy as the forsaken, who can turn humans and has WMD's

    - Claim the rightful lands and restore the seven kingdoms: yeah, that's like saying "feelings"

    - The Alliance would be safer with Lordaeron under human rule than with an undead threat to the North: Everyone would be safer if they get rid of the opposing faction.

  7. #7
    Territory would be the only good reason. Force the Forsaken out, gain Lordaeron, then go for reclaiming Gilneas. The real question is if we really needed more Northern EK territory why not just clean up Stratholme

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Azahel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Moon Guard
    Posts
    1,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Laeneia View Post
    - Obliterate the Forsaken
    - Destroy the most prominent Horde threat in the Eastern Kingdoms
    - Claim the rightful lands and restore the seven kingdoms

    The Alliance would be safer with Lordaeron under human rule than with an undead threat to the North

    edit: Revenge is always a good but not really viable motive
    why don't we just reclaim Alterac or Stromgarde?

    I for one agree with Sylvanas when she says that Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken.
    They are the people who lived there, who died there, they became something else.
    If anything the alliance could take that elf from the leadership and put someone else and try some sort of cooperation.
    But I don't see any reason why it'd be useful to the alliance now.

    "We will fight them in the alleys until our knuckles are skinned and bloodied, and our rapiers lay on the ground, shattered. And if we find ourselves surrounded and disarmed, wounded and without hope; we will lift our heads in defiance and spit in their faces. But we will never surrender! FOR GILNEAS!"

  9. #9
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,181
    Quote Originally Posted by Senarx View Post
    Territory would be the only good reason. Force the Forsaken out, gain Lordaeron, then go for reclaiming Gilneas. The real question is if we really needed more Northern EK territory why not just clean up Stratholme
    But the problem with the territory angle is Lordaeron is the shittiest territory left in the EK. Arathi and Hinterlands could be much more sustainable lands to conquer, and you have the option of entering the EPL by coast if you are in the mood for some land-healing (also cutting out Quel'thalas land routes would be nice)

  10. #10
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    8,106
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    But the problem with the territory angle is Lordaeron is the shittiest territory left in the EK. Arathi and Hinterlands could be much more sustainable lands to conquer, and you have the option of entering the EPL by coast if you are in the mood for some land-healing (also cutting out Quel'thalas land routes would be nice)
    As long as the forsaken are a military threat, the Alliance has an interest in wiping them out.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finding a stranger in the alps.
    Posts
    1,833
    Alliance can't touch the forsaken, plague wins vs every living thing.

    Words to live by.

  12. #12
    Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken, the Alliance have no claim to it whatsoever

    We cannot prevent what we cannot predict ~

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Because Stormwind is boring as hell and they think reclaiming Lordaeron will make humans less boring.

    Of course it's not really reclaiming Lordaeron since Lordaeron is already in the hands of it's rightful owners.
    Like Sylvanas

    When you sayd "want Lordearon back", I presume you mean "want Lordearon back in human hands, Alliance hands or both".
    Anyway, I don't "want it back", I'd prefer if Lordaeron could be the kingdom of its people, living or undead. But (un)fortunately not everything is the way I want.

    Reasons I "want Lordaeron back" (and I don't, let's just use that phrase for a while) are different. Alliance should simply have more lore and focus toward reclaiming Lordaeron and/or war with the Forsaken in general, and I think one could list many reasons. Forsaken are expansionistic, a menace at least and a threat to life at worst. Many Lordaeron refugees are in Stormwind, many more fled Hillsbrad or died there, they should be much more emotional about fighting there. There are humans in Arathi, who are literally next to be mercifully raised with their free will kept so they could say "FOR SYLVANAS" right after that, or whatever is that nonsense about free will of the new generation of Forsaken. Minions of the Lich Queen already started pushing in Arathi, and Hinterlands as well, where we have dwarves and elves (and draenei as of recently, because Blizzard did not know where else to put them). There are also dwarves south of Thandol Span, who should be next target if north falls to undead. And I did not even begin to mention Gilneas, Kirin Tor lands, Ebon Blade, Argents, possible Alterac humans who should maybe try reestablishing connections with the Alliance in order to simply survive, or even possible threat Sylvanas might be to Quel'Thalas once the entire north belongs to her. And don't start with "she loves her people" and "they are only retaking blahblah". She doesn't care about her people any more than she cares about any other tool, she needs more meat shield between her and the hell that awaits her, it's only the coincidence that her interest is also strong faction of Undercity. And her people are basically without any free will, since they behave as drones of the Queen, they might as well try to "retake" Mulgore if she orders it.

    tl;dr, I don't want Lordaeron back, I just want more sense in the story, and that will happen only when Alliance and LOLneutrals (and maybe even the rest of the Horde) start treating the Forsaken like the threat they are, and maybe, just maybe, trying to actually do something about it, not because it will benefit them, but because waiting, watching, doing nothing and being "oh so concerned" (stupid Tirion) will only give Lich Queen and Forsaken more time and opportunity to become even greater threat.

    Even if they are no threat (there are people who preach Forsaken are not evil zombies, but more like cute ghost Casper who wants to make friends), they should be perceived as such by Alliance and plaguelands neutrals at least and they should act accordingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    The boy is either a master troll, professional pain in the ass, or a dung-tossing primate. Then again, why compromise? All three needn't be mutually exclusive, and exist together in harmony among people I stumble across every day.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ce-badass-hero

  14. #14
    there are no practical reasons. the forsaken are enemies of the alliance (very dangerous enemies, I must add), so the alliance wants to get rid of them. since varian loves the place, and the survivors from lordaeron wish they could have their home back, they just think like this: "while we're kicking forsaken ass, why not take lordaeron back too?"

    of course they'll never succeed as long as sylvanas is in charge.

    sure the alliance could go for arathi, but that would make them practically neighbors of the forsaken. I don't think anyone has forgotten what happened to the last alliance neighbors the forsaken had lol
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  15. #15
    Why? Push the Forsaken out; re-establish the fortifications that were there of old, bring Quel'thalas back into the fold and Alliance banners could once again wave over all the lands from Silvermoon to the tip of Stranglethorn!

    Besides, all the lands of Eastern Kingdoms belonged to man, dwarf and elf (all right, all right, and gnome) before that whole business with the Dark Portal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I forgot to mention that the Forsaken have hell to pay for what they did to Southshore, Gilneas and Andorhal.

  16. #16
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,181
    Quote Originally Posted by Reybar View Post
    Like Sylvanas

    When you sayd "want Lordearon back", I presume you mean "want Lordearon back in human hands, Alliance hands or both".
    Anyway, I don't "want it back", I'd prefer if Lordaeron could be the kingdom of its people, living or undead. But (un)fortunately not everything is the way I want.

    Reasons I "want Lordaeron back" (and I don't, let's just use that phrase for a while) are different. Alliance should simply have more lore and focus toward reclaiming Lordaeron and/or war with the Forsaken in general, and I think one could list many reasons. Forsaken are expansionistic, a menace at least and a threat to life at worst. Many Lordaeron refugees are in Stormwind, many more fled Hillsbrad or died there, they should be much more emotional about fighting there. There are humans in Arathi, who are literally next to be mercifully raised with their free will kept so they could say "FOR SYLVANAS" right after that, or whatever is that nonsense about free will of the new generation of Forsaken. Minions of the Lich Queen already started pushing in Arathi, and Hinterlands as well, where we have dwarves and elves (and draenei as of recently, because Blizzard did not know where else to put them). There are also dwarves south of Thandol Span, who should be next target if north falls to undead. And I did not even begin to mention Gilneas, Kirin Tor lands, Ebon Blade, Argents, possible Alterac humans who should maybe try reestablishing connections with the Alliance in order to simply survive, or even possible threat Sylvanas might be to Quel'Thalas once the entire north belongs to her. And don't start with "she loves her people" and "they are only retaking blahblah". She doesn't care about her people any more than she cares about any other tool, she needs more meat shield between her and the hell that awaits her, it's only the coincidence that her interest is also strong faction of Undercity. And her people are basically without any free will, since they behave as drones of the Queen, they might as well try to "retake" Mulgore if she orders it.

    tl;dr, I don't want Lordaeron back, I just want more sense in the story, and that will happen only when Alliance and LOLneutrals (and maybe even the rest of the Horde) start treating the Forsaken like the threat they are, and maybe, just maybe, trying to actually do something about it, not because it will benefit them, but because waiting, watching, doing nothing and being "oh so concerned" (stupid Tirion) will only give Lich Queen and Forsaken more time and opportunity to become even greater threat.

    Even if they are no threat (there are people who preach Forsaken are not evil zombies, but more like cute ghost Casper who wants to make friends), they should be perceived as such by Alliance and plaguelands neutrals at least and they should act accordingly.
    I really hate that you are going with the Lich Queen thing (BIAAAAAAAAAS) but the rest of your points ain't bad.

    But that's from a storytelling point, and we have enough stories to pick from, we really don't need to focus more on humans when the rest of the alliance races are so underepresented.

    And your argumentation is conditional of Sylvanas being evil, and although a likely end for her, it's not a fact thus far. And if there are "neutrals" it's because they don't see Sylvanas actions worthy of open war (at least as long she is part of the horde) Also you dismiss forsaken free will, which is a factual truth thus far (regardless of other reasons for their fanatical devotion)

    The thing is, calling the forsaken a "threat" is subjective; they are no more of a threat than any other races of the opposing faction, specially now they have lulled after the cataclysm.

    So instead of outright attacking them, the alliance should lay claim to Arathi and the Hinterlands: For in the case open war erupts unavoidably, they have the infrastructure to launch their campaign.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    Why? Push the Forsaken out; re-establish the fortifications that were there of old, bring Quel'thalas back into the fold and Alliance banners could once again wave over all the lands from Silvermoon to the tip of Stranglethorn!

    Besides, all the lands of Eastern Kingdoms belonged to man, dwarf and elf (all right, all right, and gnome) before that whole business with the Dark Portal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I forgot to mention that the Forsaken have hell to pay for what they did to Southshore, Gilneas and Andorhal.
    That is the exact opposite I'm asking about; you are entirely disregarding the point of this thread.

  17. #17
    the horde can have lordaeron if we can have arathi.

    deal? deal.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    the horde can have lordaeron if we can have arathi.

    deal? deal.
    again: do you really want to be neighbors with the forsaken?
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    Why? Push the Forsaken out; re-establish the fortifications that were there of old, bring Quel'thalas back into the fold and Alliance banners could once again wave over all the lands from Silvermoon to the tip of Stranglethorn!

    Besides, all the lands of Eastern Kingdoms belonged to man, dwarf and elf (all right, all right, and gnome) before that whole business with the Dark Portal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I forgot to mention that the Forsaken have hell to pay for what they did to Southshore, Gilneas and Andorhal.

    If we want to get technical about who it belonged to first, I think Trolls had first dibs.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    again: do you really want to be neighbors with the forsaken?
    arathi is the ORIGINAL alliance city, and danath trollbane hasnt had any spotlight for years.

    would be the perfect way to give the alliance something major without having to to really change much or take anything away from the other side.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultramonkey View Post
    If we want to get technical about who it belonged to first, I think Trolls had first dibs.
    and then even more technical before that it was all old god lands!
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •