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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    - Obliterate the Forsaken: Why?
    You said it yourself:

    Because this is not retaking any place, this is the Kingdom of the living dead that can turn humans into their own.
    They are too much of a threat to leave alone. When Lordaeron's graveyards are empty, Sylvanas will turn to the lands of the living to feed her armies. Sooner or later, it's going to be the Forsaken vs the living. If the Alliance gets a city back in the process, all to the better.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    You said it yourself:



    They are too much of a threat to leave alone. When Lordaeron's graveyards are empty, Sylvanas will turn to the lands of the living to feed her armies. Sooner or later, it's going to be the Forsaken vs the living. If the Alliance gets a city back in the process, all to the better.
    you guys arent being reasonable.

    none of that stuff can happen in an mmo, like kosak and ghostcrab said, if this were a single player game they would probably do things like that but since this is an mmo the best you are gonna get is sylvanas replaced with someone else at some point
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    you guys arent being reasonable.

    none of that stuff can happen in an mmo, like kosak and ghostcrab said, if this were a single player game they would probably do things like that but since this is an mmo the best you are gonna get is sylvanas replaced with someone else at some point
    Right, that's why we won't see an Alliance Lordaeron. But that reason can't be used as a part of the plot, can it? You couldn't have the Alliance leaders say "Yeah, the Forsaken are raising our dead and taking our territory, but we can't fight them because it's a two-faction MMO." If you think the Alliance (the faction, not the players) should give up on Lordaeron and ignore the threat of the Forsaken, you need an in-game reason. Otherwise it's just bad writing.

  4. #24
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    If you think the Alliance (the faction, not the players) should give up on Lordaeron and ignore the threat of the Forsaken, you need an in-game reason. Otherwise it's just bad writing.
    They should give up because they lost every single inch of Lordaeron to the Forsaken and the Argent Crusade. On top of that they now have a pretty good use for corpses now, so anything short of a full commitment (which can't happen for various reasons, not the least of which full commitment means other fronts suddenly turn at risk of failing instead) is only going to make the Forsaken stronger and make the Alliance look stupid.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    I really hate that you are going with the Lich Queen thing (BIAAAAAAAAAS) but the rest of your points ain't bad.

    But that's from a storytelling point, and we have enough stories to pick from, we really don't need to focus more on humans when the rest of the alliance races are so underepresented.

    And your argumentation is conditional of Sylvanas being evil, and although a likely end for her, it's not a fact thus far. And if there are "neutrals" it's because they don't see Sylvanas actions worthy of open war (at least as long she is part of the horde) Also you dismiss forsaken free will, which is a factual truth thus far (regardless of other reasons for their fanatical devotion)

    The thing is, calling the forsaken a "threat" is subjective; they are no more of a threat than any other races of the opposing faction, specially now they have lulled after the cataclysm.

    So instead of outright attacking them, the alliance should lay claim to Arathi and the Hinterlands: For in the case open war erupts unavoidably, they have the infrastructure to launch their campaign.
    Well, I am subjective, no need to even bother hiding it I loved Sylvanas What-Joy-Is-There-In-This-Curse Windrunner, but this corporeal elven poltergeist is not that Ranger General I hoped to work for when I rolled my Forsaken priest back in vanilla. But that's another subject. I might be subjective, but you'll have to admit I'm trying to be objective and I'm only letting my emotions give tone to my thoughts, nothing more

    I agree with you when it comes to story, but for me story is top priority. I can accept that gameplay must come first a lot of times, but I enjoy the story first and foremost. Story from WC2 and WC3 got me into WoW, and kept me playing up to Theramore fiasco. Story is the main reason I visit this forum after I stopped playing, although I doubt I'll ever continue playing. I loved this story, I want to see how it moves on and how it'll end. I'm story fan, and I want the story to make sense.

    And it'll make sense only if someone inside the world is more emotional about Forsaken and stuff they do, even if it's not pragmatical, even if it's overzealous, even if it's outright wrong. Sylvanas' short story showed us what she wants of her people and any corpse she raises, and also what will happen to her after her final death. Also, in Andorhal, Tirion's very doorstep, Sylvanas raised and effectively mind controlled dead, and they don't see her action too dangerous?

    I know I'm too emotional and I know my post looks like I want utter annihilation of every walking corpse east of Heartglen, but it cannot be further from truth. I repeat, I just want the story to make sense. Forsaken were killing Kirin Tor members since vanilla, it DOESN'T make sense to have Dalaran neutral without a single word. Forsaken were a danger for any living human from vanilla (remember pumpkins and a new plague quest chan which culminated in Wrath?) and even before vanilla (Tarren Mill was overrun by Forsaken and not Scourge, unless that was retconned). It DOESN'T make sense for Alliance to wait doing nothing until Southshore is ooze pool and no human is left west of Thoradin Wall. And that's only a part of it.

    I dismissed their free will, yeah, but that's just an emotional rant ;P Newly raised ones, however, like things we can see in Silverpine and Andorhal, show nothing of any free will.

    I agree, fortifying positions in Arathi, Hinterlands and Gilneas should be priority, but we don't even see that happening. For all we know, Forsaken might even stop their expansion there (not likely, but possible I guess). Alliance, however, has no reason to suspect that, and should finally, for the first time since vanilla, start ACTING and DOING something to combat that threat.
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  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Lordaeron belongs to its proper owners, just because they are undead doesn't deny them rights to their own land. I honestly wouldn't raise a finger for that cause (which is why I don't quest in EK), taking homeland away from its rightful inhabitants is not just. The Forsaken don't need to lose their land they just need to stop thinking damning everyone to the condition they claim to hate is a proper means of survival. Also Alterac Valley is land being warded over by the Frostwolf Orcs and they are the only ones keeping Stormpike and company from destroying to mountain by strip mining it into a heap of dirt. Alliance really needs to be out of those areas just as Horde needs to piss off out of Night Elf land.
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  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Peaky Blinder's Avatar
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    Lordaeron, Alterac and stromgarde are dead citys that should stay that way.

    There is nothing north of the spandol span for the races of alliances and they need to stop trying to farm and reclaim land in the plaguelands that dont belong to them unless they really really do wanna join the forsaken.

    All you will find is death and decay up north and a massive sign over the thandol span bridge that says 'KEEP THE FUCK OUT'

  9. #29
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    You said it yourself:



    They are too much of a threat to leave alone. When Lordaeron's graveyards are empty, Sylvanas will turn to the lands of the living to feed her armies. Sooner or later, it's going to be the Forsaken vs the living. If the Alliance gets a city back in the process, all to the better.
    when that happens Sylvanas and company will become a raid everyone goes in and destroys as gameplay would dictate it. Forsaken opposed to her rule would be the players, just as Orcs opposed to Garrosh are players, no matter how much they want to side with him. I think it's a bit too soon to turn another active leader into a raid boss.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    I think it's a bit too soon to turn another active leader into a raid boss.
    As much as I want to see that "clever-mouthed b**ch" cleaved in half, I couldn't agree more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    The boy is either a master troll, professional pain in the ass, or a dung-tossing primate. Then again, why compromise? All three needn't be mutually exclusive, and exist together in harmony among people I stumble across every day.
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  11. #31
    Geopolitics.

    Remove the Forsaken from Lordaeron, and remove the Northern threat to Gilneas and Arathi Highlands, fortifying the position of the Alliance in Eastern Kingdoms, and connecting with the Crusader territories to the North, that can act as a neutral physical barrier against Silvermoon.

    Last I checked Westfall was still loaded with refugees, many who would probably like to get their hands on some land in the North, may it be Arathi Highlands or Hillsbrad Foothills. Also the Gilneans could return to Gilneas and rebuild.

    Furthermore this would put the Alliance in the position where they could possibly propose to the Blood Elves some sort of special settlement. They wouldn't even need to rejoin the Alliance, just accept a non aggression pact. Something Silvermoon might be more inclined to consider, once the Forsaken are out of the picture.

    Not to mention, everyone could sleep better knowing Sylvanas is dead or at least she no longer has the resources of a kingdom at her disposal.

    Also it would be a major political win and moral boost for the Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    Lordaeron, Alterac and stromgarde are dead citys that should stay that way.
    Stromgarde is still up for grabs, and there are still living citizens inhabiting and fighting for the Highlands. Gilneas also awaits the return of its inhabitants. By your logic, by what right did the Forsaken cross into Gilneas. The Gilneans are still around and still fighting for it too. Lore wise Gilneas is contested territory with Alliance forces and GLF still fighting for it. It simply Blizzards half assed lazy crap that this is not reflected in the game, and the entire zone is just empty.
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  12. #32
    Epic! g01851's Avatar
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    Because the Forsaken have done nothing with it, and are still living in a big sewer. Maybe if they did a few renovations, it wouldn't be such an eyesore.

  13. #33
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    its a cool city, it should be with its rightful owners.
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  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans Suffer the Consequences's Avatar
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    If Tirisfal Glades and Undercity ever truly came under a direct threat, no one could reign Sylvanas in from using the blight, and whatever even worse concoctions she's made up since that was first unleashed. You don't want to invade. Just let it go.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    They are too much of a threat to leave alone. When Lordaeron's graveyards are empty, Sylvanas will turn to the lands of the living to feed her armies. Sooner or later, it's going to be the Forsaken vs the living. If the Alliance gets a city back in the process, all to the better.
    Uhm.. no. It'll be Forsaken vs Humans.
    As a Blood Elf I feel safe around my allies.

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Geopolitics.

    Last I checked Westfall was still loaded with refugees, many who would probably like to get their hands on some land in the North
    You must've missed a few major points of questing in post-Cata Westfall. Two being, they hate Varian Wrynn and they aren't about to throw their lives away against the Forsaken fighting for a moot cause. The reality of the story is also that every human you throw at the Forsaken who falls in battle is risen to join their ranks and given the state of the drifters and homeless people of Westfall it'd be nothing more than a golden opportunity at the Forsaken's trademark attribute, vengeance.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken, the Alliance have no claim to it whatsoever
    Calia Menethil says hello!. Are you for real? Lordearon city was the main faction/the ceneter of the old alliance,

    Calia Menethil comes back and ask the alliance for help to take back HER (rightfully) kingdom, so as to counter it, the horde as no claim at all. Whatever you say so is it still the Menethil bloodlines kingdom.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Uhm.. no. It'll be Forsaken vs Humans.
    As a Blood Elf I feel safe around my allies.
    It may just be a lore flub on Blizzard's part, but datamined dialogue from SoO has Lor'themar yelling at Sylvanas to "leave our dead alone". You might not be as safe as you think.

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffe View Post
    Calia Menethil says hello!. Are you for real? Lordearon city was the main faction/the ceneter of the old alliance
    Key word, Old. That Alliance has nothing to do with the current playable faction that includes Night Elves, Worgen and Draenei as well as humans from the kingdom of Stormwind. That's the *old* Alliance, and just like the *old* Horde has no relevance in World of Warcraft's timeline since it all ended in the RTS timeline.

    Calia Menethil comes back and ask the alliance for help to take back HER (rightfully) kingdom, so as to counter it, the horde as no claim at all. Whatever you say so is it still the Menethil bloodlines kingdom.
    Stormwind, Ironforge, Gnomeregan, Gilneas, Darnassus and the Exodar have nothing to do with Lordaeron; Calia can rage and rally all she wants, her *people* are the Forsaken now, she would be better served trying to court them if she wants power back. I can't see any Alliance member living in Kalimdor nor the Worgen who've yet to retake Gilneas wanting much of anything to do with trying to take Undercity, something that wouldn't happen anyways because game mechanics say it can't happen.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    You must've missed a few major points of questing in post-Cata Westfall. Two being, they hate Varian Wrynn and they aren't about to throw their lives away against the Forsaken fighting for a moot cause. The reality of the story is also that every human you throw at the Forsaken who falls in battle is risen to join their ranks and given the state of the drifters and homeless people of Westfall it'd be nothing more than a golden opportunity at the Forsaken's trademark attribute, vengeance.
    Who said anything about throwing the drifters at the Forsaken? That would be plain stupid as we seen in Andorhal.

    No, you march in an Alliance army, Gunships and all, level every surface settlement, clear out Lordaeron city, then demolish it for good measure. Set up military presence to secure Alterac, Arathi and Gilneas, finance the Argent Crusades clean up operations in exchange for extending it South, meanwhile offer the drifters settlement in Arathi and Alterac away from the worst hit Plaguelands, with plans for repopulating Lordaeron in the far future.

    This way you rebuild Human presence on the outskirts of Lordaeron and give people time to adjust and the lands to heal, meanwhile also finally securing Gilneas.

    See no reason to endanger civilians.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
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