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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    You said it yourself:



    They are too much of a threat to leave alone. When Lordaeron's graveyards are empty, Sylvanas will turn to the lands of the living to feed her armies. Sooner or later, it's going to be the Forsaken vs the living. If the Alliance gets a city back in the process, all to the better.
    you guys arent being reasonable.

    none of that stuff can happen in an mmo, like kosak and ghostcrab said, if this were a single player game they would probably do things like that but since this is an mmo the best you are gonna get is sylvanas replaced with someone else at some point
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    you guys arent being reasonable.

    none of that stuff can happen in an mmo, like kosak and ghostcrab said, if this were a single player game they would probably do things like that but since this is an mmo the best you are gonna get is sylvanas replaced with someone else at some point
    Right, that's why we won't see an Alliance Lordaeron. But that reason can't be used as a part of the plot, can it? You couldn't have the Alliance leaders say "Yeah, the Forsaken are raising our dead and taking our territory, but we can't fight them because it's a two-faction MMO." If you think the Alliance (the faction, not the players) should give up on Lordaeron and ignore the threat of the Forsaken, you need an in-game reason. Otherwise it's just bad writing.

  3. #23
    Legendary! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Back to who? The people that used to live there still do.
    Aye mate

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    If you think the Alliance (the faction, not the players) should give up on Lordaeron and ignore the threat of the Forsaken, you need an in-game reason. Otherwise it's just bad writing.
    They should give up because they lost every single inch of Lordaeron to the Forsaken and the Argent Crusade. On top of that they now have a pretty good use for corpses now, so anything short of a full commitment (which can't happen for various reasons, not the least of which full commitment means other fronts suddenly turn at risk of failing instead) is only going to make the Forsaken stronger and make the Alliance look stupid.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    I really hate that you are going with the Lich Queen thing (BIAAAAAAAAAS) but the rest of your points ain't bad.

    But that's from a storytelling point, and we have enough stories to pick from, we really don't need to focus more on humans when the rest of the alliance races are so underepresented.

    And your argumentation is conditional of Sylvanas being evil, and although a likely end for her, it's not a fact thus far. And if there are "neutrals" it's because they don't see Sylvanas actions worthy of open war (at least as long she is part of the horde) Also you dismiss forsaken free will, which is a factual truth thus far (regardless of other reasons for their fanatical devotion)

    The thing is, calling the forsaken a "threat" is subjective; they are no more of a threat than any other races of the opposing faction, specially now they have lulled after the cataclysm.

    So instead of outright attacking them, the alliance should lay claim to Arathi and the Hinterlands: For in the case open war erupts unavoidably, they have the infrastructure to launch their campaign.
    Well, I am subjective, no need to even bother hiding it I loved Sylvanas What-Joy-Is-There-In-This-Curse Windrunner, but this corporeal elven poltergeist is not that Ranger General I hoped to work for when I rolled my Forsaken priest back in vanilla. But that's another subject. I might be subjective, but you'll have to admit I'm trying to be objective and I'm only letting my emotions give tone to my thoughts, nothing more

    I agree with you when it comes to story, but for me story is top priority. I can accept that gameplay must come first a lot of times, but I enjoy the story first and foremost. Story from WC2 and WC3 got me into WoW, and kept me playing up to Theramore fiasco. Story is the main reason I visit this forum after I stopped playing, although I doubt I'll ever continue playing. I loved this story, I want to see how it moves on and how it'll end. I'm story fan, and I want the story to make sense.

    And it'll make sense only if someone inside the world is more emotional about Forsaken and stuff they do, even if it's not pragmatical, even if it's overzealous, even if it's outright wrong. Sylvanas' short story showed us what she wants of her people and any corpse she raises, and also what will happen to her after her final death. Also, in Andorhal, Tirion's very doorstep, Sylvanas raised and effectively mind controlled dead, and they don't see her action too dangerous?

    I know I'm too emotional and I know my post looks like I want utter annihilation of every walking corpse east of Heartglen, but it cannot be further from truth. I repeat, I just want the story to make sense. Forsaken were killing Kirin Tor members since vanilla, it DOESN'T make sense to have Dalaran neutral without a single word. Forsaken were a danger for any living human from vanilla (remember pumpkins and a new plague quest chan which culminated in Wrath?) and even before vanilla (Tarren Mill was overrun by Forsaken and not Scourge, unless that was retconned). It DOESN'T make sense for Alliance to wait doing nothing until Southshore is ooze pool and no human is left west of Thoradin Wall. And that's only a part of it.

    I dismissed their free will, yeah, but that's just an emotional rant ;P Newly raised ones, however, like things we can see in Silverpine and Andorhal, show nothing of any free will.

    I agree, fortifying positions in Arathi, Hinterlands and Gilneas should be priority, but we don't even see that happening. For all we know, Forsaken might even stop their expansion there (not likely, but possible I guess). Alliance, however, has no reason to suspect that, and should finally, for the first time since vanilla, start ACTING and DOING something to combat that threat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    The boy is either a master troll, professional pain in the ass, or a dung-tossing primate. Then again, why compromise? All three needn't be mutually exclusive, and exist together in harmony among people I stumble across every day.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ce-badass-hero

  6. #26
    Lordaeron, Alterac and stromgarde are dead citys that should stay that way.

    There is nothing north of the spandol span for the races of alliances and they need to stop trying to farm and reclaim land in the plaguelands that dont belong to them unless they really really do wanna join the forsaken.

    All you will find is death and decay up north and a massive sign over the thandol span bridge that says 'KEEP THE FUCK OUT'

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    I think it's a bit too soon to turn another active leader into a raid boss.
    As much as I want to see that "clever-mouthed b**ch" cleaved in half, I couldn't agree more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    The boy is either a master troll, professional pain in the ass, or a dung-tossing primate. Then again, why compromise? All three needn't be mutually exclusive, and exist together in harmony among people I stumble across every day.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ce-badass-hero

  8. #28
    Geopolitics.

    Remove the Forsaken from Lordaeron, and remove the Northern threat to Gilneas and Arathi Highlands, fortifying the position of the Alliance in Eastern Kingdoms, and connecting with the Crusader territories to the North, that can act as a neutral physical barrier against Silvermoon.

    Last I checked Westfall was still loaded with refugees, many who would probably like to get their hands on some land in the North, may it be Arathi Highlands or Hillsbrad Foothills. Also the Gilneans could return to Gilneas and rebuild.

    Furthermore this would put the Alliance in the position where they could possibly propose to the Blood Elves some sort of special settlement. They wouldn't even need to rejoin the Alliance, just accept a non aggression pact. Something Silvermoon might be more inclined to consider, once the Forsaken are out of the picture.

    Not to mention, everyone could sleep better knowing Sylvanas is dead or at least she no longer has the resources of a kingdom at her disposal.

    Also it would be a major political win and moral boost for the Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    Lordaeron, Alterac and stromgarde are dead citys that should stay that way.
    Stromgarde is still up for grabs, and there are still living citizens inhabiting and fighting for the Highlands. Gilneas also awaits the return of its inhabitants. By your logic, by what right did the Forsaken cross into Gilneas. The Gilneans are still around and still fighting for it too. Lore wise Gilneas is contested territory with Alliance forces and GLF still fighting for it. It simply Blizzards half assed lazy crap that this is not reflected in the game, and the entire zone is just empty.

  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans
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    Because the Forsaken have done nothing with it, and are still living in a big sewer. Maybe if they did a few renovations, it wouldn't be such an eyesore.

  10. #30
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
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    its a cool city, it should be with its rightful owners.
    Hi

  11. #31
    Legendary! The One Percent's Avatar
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    If Tirisfal Glades and Undercity ever truly came under a direct threat, no one could reign Sylvanas in from using the blight, and whatever even worse concoctions she's made up since that was first unleashed. You don't want to invade. Just let it go.
    You're getting exactly what you deserve.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken, the Alliance have no claim to it whatsoever
    Calia Menethil says hello!. Are you for real? Lordearon city was the main faction/the ceneter of the old alliance,

    Calia Menethil comes back and ask the alliance for help to take back HER (rightfully) kingdom, so as to counter it, the horde as no claim at all. Whatever you say so is it still the Menethil bloodlines kingdom.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Uhm.. no. It'll be Forsaken vs Humans.
    As a Blood Elf I feel safe around my allies.
    It may just be a lore flub on Blizzard's part, but datamined dialogue from SoO has Lor'themar yelling at Sylvanas to "leave our dead alone". You might not be as safe as you think.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    You must've missed a few major points of questing in post-Cata Westfall. Two being, they hate Varian Wrynn and they aren't about to throw their lives away against the Forsaken fighting for a moot cause. The reality of the story is also that every human you throw at the Forsaken who falls in battle is risen to join their ranks and given the state of the drifters and homeless people of Westfall it'd be nothing more than a golden opportunity at the Forsaken's trademark attribute, vengeance.
    Who said anything about throwing the drifters at the Forsaken? That would be plain stupid as we seen in Andorhal.

    No, you march in an Alliance army, Gunships and all, level every surface settlement, clear out Lordaeron city, then demolish it for good measure. Set up military presence to secure Alterac, Arathi and Gilneas, finance the Argent Crusades clean up operations in exchange for extending it South, meanwhile offer the drifters settlement in Arathi and Alterac away from the worst hit Plaguelands, with plans for repopulating Lordaeron in the far future.

    This way you rebuild Human presence on the outskirts of Lordaeron and give people time to adjust and the lands to heal, meanwhile also finally securing Gilneas.

    See no reason to endanger civilians.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Back to who? The people that used to live there still do.
    Along with a lot of other undead bastards :P I think UC is really international considering there are undead from a lot of different places and races living there now, doubt they are 100% Lordaeron humans...

  16. #36
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    You said it yourself:



    They are too much of a threat to leave alone. When Lordaeron's graveyards are empty, Sylvanas will turn to the lands of the living to feed her armies. Sooner or later, it's going to be the Forsaken vs the living. If the Alliance gets a city back in the process, all to the better.
    That turns it on a "preemptive strike" measure, and I don't think that'll be the sort of thing the rest of the alliance (the non humans) would be too keen on wasting resources.

    Unless Sylvanas steeps outside her limits (Even in Arathi she tries to use the Trollbane line to lay claim) and becomes a global threat, I just can't see the rest of the alliance being on board with taking out the forsaken; Sylvanas would have to do something remarkably hideous for it to happen, and beyond a metaphysical aspect and the razing of Southshore, she isn't yet a global threat. She has the potential to, but she isn't there yet.

    Sylvanas won't go to open war most likely, she can't afford lose her shield She won't risk breaking the camels back. I'd find more reasonable going to cold war with her instead of attacking her domain in that case.

    If you attack her in her house, she will retaliate and raise you; but if she goes in the aggressor role, she will be outnumbered by everyone, and Sylvanas can't afford to make herself a target when she fears death so much.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post

    Stormwind, Ironforge, Gnomeregan.
    This is the Old Alliance. Formed after the First War, with some other members. And why wouldn't the Gilneans would want to eliminate a genocidal enemy on their borders, that destroyed their nation and tried to exterminate them? They would sure as hell like their northern border somewhat safer.

    I agree it won't happen for gameplay reasons, but lorewise it makes all the sense in the world.

    Wtf are you talking about "white knight storytelling"? I just said the Alliance should and would exterminate the Forsaken for geopolitical reasons and draw the Argent Crusade into an alliance by asociation asking them to cleanse the land of plauge for them, meanwhile using them as a shield against Silvermoon.

    The Crusade wouldn't be fighting for the Alliance, just cleanse the land after all the Forsaken are dead or have been removed?

    White Knighting? LoL. This is why I prefer humans over other races. They are more nuanced. I can justify the need for this politically, or strategically, or with religious zealotry, or greed.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2013-08-31 at 05:51 AM.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    they're not, they're just like 90% Lordaeron humans <.<
    Source :P? Last time i checked the scourge ressed most what they killed, and when Sylvanas broke em free, im pretty sure she did not just pick the humans? Is Sylvanas a racist O.o?

  19. #39
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Geopolitics.

    Remove the Forsaken from Lordaeron, and remove the Northern threat to Gilneas and Arathi Highlands, fortifying the position of the Alliance in Eastern Kingdoms, and connecting with the Crusader territories to the North, that can act as a neutral physical barrier against Silvermoon.

    Last I checked Westfall was still loaded with refugees, many who would probably like to get their hands on some land in the North, may it be Arathi Highlands or Hillsbrad Foothills. Also the Gilneans could return to Gilneas and rebuild.

    Furthermore this would put the Alliance in the position where they could possibly propose to the Blood Elves some sort of special settlement. They wouldn't even need to rejoin the Alliance, just accept a non aggression pact. Something Silvermoon might be more inclined to consider, once the Forsaken are out of the picture.

    Not to mention, everyone could sleep better knowing Sylvanas is dead or at least she no longer has the resources of a kingdom at her disposal.

    Also it would be a major political win and moral boost for the Alliance.
    But are you willing to go to an all out war between the factions just for that? Specially on a world that keeps going into the shitter.

    It just sounds so unreasonable, to deploy the might of the alliance on such a vanity project. The repercussions would be global, all for a dried husk of a land. Why Lordaeron? Why start a global war for it when shit keeps hitting the fan?

  20. #40
    I want Lorderon back because of art style . SW suck lets trade Lorderon for Stormwind. or i would like Alliance would retake Gilneas And Gilneas would be new capital. Gilneas is such amazing city and its just easted

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