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  1. #41
    Bloodsail Admiral melak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Back to who? The people that used to live there still do.
    Along with a lot of other undead bastards :P I think UC is really international considering there are undead from a lot of different places and races living there now, doubt they are 100% Lordaeron humans...
    Quote Originally Posted by Runecapeman
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  2. #42
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Who said anything about throwing the drifters at the Forsaken? That would be plain stupid as we seen in Andorhal.

    No, you march in an Alliance army, Gunships and all, level every surface settlement, clear out Lordaeron city, then demolish it for good measure. Set up military presence to secure Alterac, Arathi and Gilneas, finance the Argent Crusades clean up operations in exchange for extending it South, meanwhile offer the drifters settlement in Arathi and Alterac away from the worst hit Plaguelands, with plans for repopulating Lordaeron in the far future.
    Sounds like more dreadful pro-human, white knight storytelling. And something that wouldn't happen, ever on account of gameplay saying it can't. And the Argent Crusade wouldn't do any "clean up operations" against Horde land. They are not Alliance. Do you not remember the outstanding ass-kickings Argent Dawn guards would give anyone who pvped around Light's Hope Chapel?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by melak View Post
    Along with a lot of other undead bastards :P I think UC is really international considering there are undead from a lot of different places and races living there now, doubt they are 100% Lordaeron humans...
    they're not, they're just like 90% Lordaeron humans <.<
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
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  3. #43
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    You said it yourself:



    They are too much of a threat to leave alone. When Lordaeron's graveyards are empty, Sylvanas will turn to the lands of the living to feed her armies. Sooner or later, it's going to be the Forsaken vs the living. If the Alliance gets a city back in the process, all to the better.
    That turns it on a "preemptive strike" measure, and I don't think that'll be the sort of thing the rest of the alliance (the non humans) would be too keen on wasting resources.

    Unless Sylvanas steeps outside her limits (Even in Arathi she tries to use the Trollbane line to lay claim) and becomes a global threat, I just can't see the rest of the alliance being on board with taking out the forsaken; Sylvanas would have to do something remarkably hideous for it to happen, and beyond a metaphysical aspect and the razing of Southshore, she isn't yet a global threat. She has the potential to, but she isn't there yet.

    Sylvanas won't go to open war most likely, she can't afford lose her shield She won't risk breaking the camels back. I'd find more reasonable going to cold war with her instead of attacking her domain in that case.

    If you attack her in her house, she will retaliate and raise you; but if she goes in the aggressor role, she will be outnumbered by everyone, and Sylvanas can't afford to make herself a target when she fears death so much.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post

    Stormwind, Ironforge, Gnomeregan.
    This is the Old Alliance. Formed after the First War, with some other members. And why wouldn't the Gilneans would want to eliminate a genocidal enemy on their borders, that destroyed their nation and tried to exterminate them? They would sure as hell like their northern border somewhat safer.

    I agree it won't happen for gameplay reasons, but lorewise it makes all the sense in the world.

    Wtf are you talking about "white knight storytelling"? I just said the Alliance should and would exterminate the Forsaken for geopolitical reasons and draw the Argent Crusade into an alliance by asociation asking them to cleanse the land of plauge for them, meanwhile using them as a shield against Silvermoon.

    The Crusade wouldn't be fighting for the Alliance, just cleanse the land after all the Forsaken are dead or have been removed?

    White Knighting? LoL. This is why I prefer humans over other races. They are more nuanced. I can justify the need for this politically, or strategically, or with religious zealotry, or greed.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2013-08-31 at 05:51 AM.
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    Sexual assault is not always rape.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
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  5. #45
    Bloodsail Admiral melak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    they're not, they're just like 90% Lordaeron humans <.<
    Source :P? Last time i checked the scourge ressed most what they killed, and when Sylvanas broke em free, im pretty sure she did not just pick the humans? Is Sylvanas a racist O.o?
    Quote Originally Posted by Runecapeman
    I try not to post anywhere anymore, due to fear of being infracted. Feels like there are too many mods that aren't screened well enough. "Dirty cops" if you will.

  6. #46
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Geopolitics.

    Remove the Forsaken from Lordaeron, and remove the Northern threat to Gilneas and Arathi Highlands, fortifying the position of the Alliance in Eastern Kingdoms, and connecting with the Crusader territories to the North, that can act as a neutral physical barrier against Silvermoon.

    Last I checked Westfall was still loaded with refugees, many who would probably like to get their hands on some land in the North, may it be Arathi Highlands or Hillsbrad Foothills. Also the Gilneans could return to Gilneas and rebuild.

    Furthermore this would put the Alliance in the position where they could possibly propose to the Blood Elves some sort of special settlement. They wouldn't even need to rejoin the Alliance, just accept a non aggression pact. Something Silvermoon might be more inclined to consider, once the Forsaken are out of the picture.

    Not to mention, everyone could sleep better knowing Sylvanas is dead or at least she no longer has the resources of a kingdom at her disposal.

    Also it would be a major political win and moral boost for the Alliance.
    But are you willing to go to an all out war between the factions just for that? Specially on a world that keeps going into the shitter.

    It just sounds so unreasonable, to deploy the might of the alliance on such a vanity project. The repercussions would be global, all for a dried husk of a land. Why Lordaeron? Why start a global war for it when shit keeps hitting the fan?

  7. #47
    I want Lorderon back because of art style . SW suck lets trade Lorderon for Stormwind. or i would like Alliance would retake Gilneas And Gilneas would be new capital. Gilneas is such amazing city and its just easted

  8. #48
    Sylvanas will have to be stopped at some point. She's like...the Lich Queen now. Give her enough time and I'll bet she can raise more soldiers than the other races can create the old fashioned way, and then what? Is she just going to sit on her laurels? Probably not. She already took land in Cata...of course she was ordered to attack Gilneas by Garrosh, but no one ordered her to go ape shit on Hillsbrad, that was her idea. She's obviously hungry for power and control. So I see attacking her, and thus attacking Lordaeron, as inevitable...but you're right it won't be about resources, or even faction pride, but out of necessity.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    Key word, Old. That Alliance has nothing to do with the current playable faction that includes Night Elves, Worgen and Draenei as well as humans from the kingdom of Stormwind. That's the *old* Alliance, and just like the *old* Horde has no relevance in World of Warcraft's timeline since it all ended in the RTS timeline.

    Stormwind, Ironforge, Gnomeregan, Gilneas, Darnassus and the Exodar have nothing to do with Lordaeron; Calia can rage and rally all she wants, her *people* are the Forsaken now, she would be better served trying to court them if she wants power back. I can't see any Alliance member living in Kalimdor nor the Worgen who've yet to retake Gilneas wanting much of anything to do with trying to take Undercity, something that wouldn't happen anyways because game mechanics say it can't happen.
    I agree with Darnassus and Exodar, But Ironforge,gnomeregan,gilneas belonged to the old alliance, well gilneas pulled out at the end. And the most important of all (stormwind) wich goes all back from the first war were the humans of stormwind got crushed and fled lordaeron to take shelter and seek aid which ended with:

    The armies of Lordaeron were the first to heed the call to arms issued by Sir Lothar and the people of Azeroth. As patron of the Alliance, King Terenas II has assumed the heavy mantle of leadership to protect all who abide in his domain, The house was known for their kindness to the Wrynns during the Second War.

    The house of Wrynn and the house of Menethil has a strong friendship, not to tell about how lordaeron saved stormwind in the past. So i think pretty much the whole alliance have more than enough reasons to help Calia menethil to take back her kingdom if she so wishes.

  10. #50
    We cleansed the EPL, tell me why we couldnt cleanse all of the plaguelands and restore Lordaeron to have a city capital closer to the Undercity for an attack?
    "If the people who are trying to destroy this world aren't taking a day off, then why should I?"

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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    But are you willing to go to an all out war between the factions just for that? Specially on a world that keeps going into the shitter.

    It just sounds so unreasonable, to deploy the might of the alliance on such a vanity project. The repercussions would be global, all for a dried husk of a land. Why Lordaeron? Why start a global war for it when shit keeps hitting the fan?
    The complete dominion of Eastern Kingdoms and the isolation of Silvermoon. It would defacto limit the Horde to Kalimdor, increasing peace and stability by 25 fold for the Alliance, internally and externally. If that isn't worth picking a fight over on Azeroth, I don't know what is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Sexual assault is not always rape.
    *slowclap*
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Woman rapes a guy, gives birth to child and has custody of the child.
    I don't see why you should take the child from the woman unless she abuses it.

  12. #52
    Dreadlord Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffe View Post
    Calia Menethil says hello!. Are you for real? Lordearon city was the main faction/the ceneter of the old alliance,

    Calia Menethil comes back and ask the alliance for help to take back HER (rightfully) kingdom, so as to counter it, the horde as no claim at all. Whatever you say so is it still the Menethil bloodlines kingdom.
    i guess it sucks that there's no logical way she could still be alive

    y'know with the scourge killing everyone in the capital city

    and due to Arthas being the crown prince, he would have been taught all the secret passages out of the capital city to ensure his safety (especially after the 2nd war)

    and the fact she would have certainly been in capital city regardless if she was married to a nobleman or not (a crown prince returning "victorious" from a lengthy campaign against the biggest threat to the kingdom is probably the most important event EVER, especially if you're his sister...)
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    Key word, Old. That Alliance has nothing to do with the current playable faction that includes Night Elves, Worgen and Draenei as well as humans from the kingdom of Stormwind. That's the *old* Alliance, and just like the *old* Horde has no relevance in World of Warcraft's timeline since it all ended in the RTS timeline.
    i wish people would stop saying that because its simply not true.

    everyone who was still alive at the end of the third war who were part of the alliance of lordaeron except for the blood elves is STILL part of the alliance.

    the dwarves, all of the surviving human nations, the remaining high elves, the gnomes. all of them are still here, they still operate the same way, and they still believe in the same ideals they did then, just because theyv added more members or a few of the nations fell doesnt means they arent the same people.

    you cant compare the old horde to the alliance of lordaeron, the alliance of lordaeron is the exact same thing except now stormwind is in charge and they had to take off the "of lordaeron" part and theyve added a few new allies.

    the old horde was a completely seperate entity, its ideals were completely different, the majority of the people in the horde now dont even remember it except in stories unless they are old vets like saurfang, not to mention the entire purpose of the horde is different. they are the horde in name only since they are now completely different and follow a completely different set of ideals and cultures.

    and while i agree that the forsaken have just as much of a right to lordaeron you cant just say "the alliance has no right" when a good portion of the alliance are made up of lordaeron refugees when they had to flee from then undead, that would be like when varian returned from lordaeron to rebuild stormwind you said "varian has no right to stormwind since he grew up in lordaeron"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by melak View Post
    Source :P? Last time i checked the scourge ressed most what they killed, and when Sylvanas broke em free, im pretty sure she did not just pick the humans? Is Sylvanas a racist O.o?
    the majority of the forsaken atleast in vanilla were compromised of both fallen lordaeron members and undead high elves.

    of course tons of forsaken have died since then and they couldnt make any more in large numbers until cata, so unless blizzard decides to say how much of the forsaken are from where all we have is what it was in vanilla
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  14. #54
    Bloodsail Admiral melak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    the majority of the forsaken atleast in vanilla were compromised of both fallen lordaeron members and undead high elves.

    of course tons of forsaken have died since then and they couldnt make any more in large numbers until cata, so unless blizzard decides to say how much of the forsaken are from where all we have is what it was in vanilla
    Exactly, so unlikely its 90% humans...
    Quote Originally Posted by Runecapeman
    I try not to post anywhere anymore, due to fear of being infracted. Feels like there are too many mods that aren't screened well enough. "Dirty cops" if you will.

  15. #55
    Oh yeah, and now that the Kirin Tor rejoined the Alliance, they might like their lands back too. They sure as hell aren't dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Sexual assault is not always rape.
    *slowclap*
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Woman rapes a guy, gives birth to child and has custody of the child.
    I don't see why you should take the child from the woman unless she abuses it.

  16. #56
    Lordaeron is ours, now and forever.

  17. #57
    Stood in the Fire Crysis's Avatar
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    1. They want it, because Sylvanas is a huge threat to all the living on Eastern Kingdoms. I can only imagine she already has tons of plans to attack Stormwind, Ironforge, Gnomeregan etc. - she is the danger, and Alliance has no other choice but to want to put her down.

    2. Forsaken are abominations in the eyes of humans - thus "their" kingdoms is not really theirs, it belongs to the humans, to the Alliance.

    3. Because Alliance already lost so much in this war, its only logical to "want" some of it back. What else then the fallen kingdom of Lordaeron?

    This being sad, I just rerolled an Undead Warlock and with Garrosh being dead soon and me not able to change that, my loyalty now belongs to the Sylvanas.. to the Dark Below with hippie trolls, taurens, blood elves and the Alliance, together we will unleash hell upon all the living!
    "Times change."

  18. #58
    There are plenty of reasons.
    (Note: Obviously, Lordaeron is the homeland of the Forsaken as well, but not everyone who lived there became a member of the Forsaken)

    1) The Forsaken are hostile to the Alliance, and conquering a hostile force is one way to stop them from being a danger to you.
    2) Most of the land is dead, but that doesn't mean some druids can't show up and start to fix it. There are still living Alliance farmers trying to make a living there.
    3) There are still living people on the Alliance to whom it's their homeland. Maybe that's not a logical reason, but it's an important reason to people.
    4) Symbolically. As far as the Alliance is concerned, the Scourge might as well still be out there. We may have defeated the Lich King, but Lordaeron, his homeland and the first victim of his rampage, is still ruled by undead, is still decaying and falling apart, and is still in the hands of enemies of the Alliance. Every second the Forsaken test plagues and live in run-down, cobweb-filled houses, is a reminder to the survivors of Lordaeron how many horrible things happened to them (Honestly, I don't see why the Forsaken want to live that way either when they're supposed to be resentful of their fate, but whatever). It really doesn't feel like you defeated your enemy when the land they stole from you perpetually remains in the state they left it in (again, enemy being the Scourge, the Forsaken are Lordaeron remnants).
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2013-08-31 at 06:19 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    and then even more technical before that it was all old god lands!
    And then even more technical before that it was all Titan lands. Old Gods aren't native to Azeroth they come from a different plane of existence. At least the Trolls evolved on the planet and aren't mutated aberrations that were never meant to be independent races (gnomes, humans, dwarves, trogg, etc.).
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer OzoAndIndi's Avatar
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    I'm not sure who they'd think they're retaking it from... aren't most of the Undead there the former living Humans who were it's citizens in the first place? It's still largely in the original people's hands then.

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