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  1. #221
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    there is no reason to try to take it unless there is something beneath tirisfal that has a ginormous benefit to the alliance and it is a matter of "get it all costs or die trying" . Aside from that from a military perspective, throwing soldiers to the undead = more undead armies to fight back at them. it is like trying to fight fire by throwing paper at it.
    that's easy to solve

    Robots > Zombies

    - - - Updated - - -

    but you right of course, there is not strategic advantage to even attempt to retake the whole of lordaeron, but they should push back Arathi, and maybe even try to retake South Shore and Gilneas.

  2. #222
    High Overlord Gren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azahel View Post
    why don't we just reclaim Alterac or Stromgarde?

    I for one agree with Sylvanas when she says that Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken.
    They are the people who lived there, who died there, they became something else.
    If anything the alliance could take that elf from the leadership and put someone else and try some sort of cooperation.
    But I don't see any reason why it'd be useful to the alliance now.
    I would actually like to see the Forsaken build up the old ruins, get some more use out of that place.

    As for the Alliance retaking, fat chance! I agree, they'd be much better off reclaiming Alterac or Stromgarde.
    Cthulhu 2016, why vote for a lesser evil

  3. #223
    Alliance encroaching on Lordaeron (sans Calia) is no different than if Alliance were to "retake" Quel'thalas. They are foreigners invading territory that doesn't belong to them.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-04 at 07:32 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    We are supposing that she is dead, concretely undead.

    Although she has not done anything for them (yet) she is the legitimate heir to the throne, I guess some Forsaken will remain loyal to the crown ...
    I don't think the forsaken would allow the living to be their leader.

    Well, I don't think they'd be loyal to the crown. They have a new queen. Someone showing up as the rightful heir doesn't account for anything as they are not under the kingdom of lordaeron anymore. They are forsaken now. And sylvanas is the queen of the forsaken.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Calia - she's the stupid daughter of the king [and therefore legitimate heir to the throne], who might be a forsaken now [and therefore one of them on equal terms]
    fixed

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    there is no reason to try to take it unless there is something beneath tirisfal that has a ginormous benefit to the alliance and it is a matter of "get it all costs or die trying" . Aside from that from a military perspective, throwing soldiers to the undead = more undead armies to fight back at them. it is like trying to fight fire by throwing paper at it.
    Uhm the Tirisfal Grove (where the mystical Chamber of Krasus is located)


  6. #226
    Stood in the Fire Rilec's Avatar
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    First of all, everyone saying "Lordaeron belongs to X and Y has no claim!" is pretty childish and wrong. The Forsaken and humans are two powers who don't recognize each others' laws. Both sides have what they believe to be a legitimate claim to the land and to each side, they're right while their enemies are wrong. The Forsaken are largely comprised of the dead of Lordaeron, raised into servitude and later set free to try and make an existence out of whatever husks of their former selves they had become. They take up residence in the land they once had during life, zealously defending the only home they have against human invaders who would stop at nothing to take everything from them. Lordaeron is currently the only real place in the world that the Forsaken have.

    On the other side of the coin, you have the humans. Many of them were once citizens of Lordaeron in one way or another. Some are refugees who's family lines were born, lived and died on those lands. Some are old Stormwind refugees from the first war who's sister-nation Lordaeron took in and offered a home for many, many years. They struggle to reclaim the birthplace of the Alliance. Some fight to reclaim their homes from what they see as an abomination. Others fight to try and restore the homes of those who gave them refuge in the past. Both sides here obviously seem to have very legitimate reasons for trying to control Lordaeron, but all it really boils down to is a simple "I want it". There are no rightful hands for the land to be in. The Forsaken currently control Lordaeron, so it's theirs. If the Alliance were to take the city, the sides would change and they would be the "rightful rulers" while the Forsaken would be "invaders".

    Now the out of game reason is because Blizzard hasn't done anything to endear Stormwind to the players. It has and continues to exist as a generic backdrop for humans and the Alliance as a whole. Even now, Stormwind and the Humans are a cheap, bland and empty wrapper hastily put around the alliance and a lot of people know it. A lot of Alliance players are desperate for the nostalgia of Warcraft 2, the amazing symbolism (the stylized L is infinitely better than stormwind's baby's-first-kitty) and a rich story. That's likely why you see so many ranting and raving on the forums about reclaiming Lordaeron.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Alliance encroaching on Lordaeron (sans Calia) is no different than if Alliance were to "retake" Quel'thalas. They are foreigners invading territory that doesn't belong to them.
    Sylvanas has given the Alliance enough reason to take Lordaeron for their own safety, never mind the refugees they are sheltering.

    EJL

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Sylvanas has given the Alliance enough reason to take Lordaeron for their own safety, never mind the refugees they are sheltering.
    Those refugees don't mean jack squat. There are High Elf refugees in the Alliance too. You don't see the Alliance invading Quel'thalas over it or anyone claiming that the Alliance has a right to Quel'thalas.

    The threat that Sylvanas poses is a real concern. But that doesn't change the fact that the Alliance are still foreign invaders into Lordaeron and that their actions are more conquest based than taking out Sylvanas.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-04 at 11:05 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #229
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Sylvanas has given the Alliance enough reason to take Lordaeron for their own safety, never mind the refugees they are sheltering.

    EJL
    And the Orcs gave the Alliance enough reason to take Durotar for good. But gameplay won't let that happen. Why does anyone think this will? Sylvanas and company are on a short leash with the rest of the Horde and the World and presumably not stupid enough to pick a fight with the whole world. Forsaken aren't as easily whipped up into racist frenzies as Orcs, plenty have already left and went to neutral organisations when they disagreed with her. They consolidated regional power in Lordaeron since it's their land. They got the Horde to fight their battles because that's why they joined them in the first place. The Horde isn't in the capacity to wage war against the Alliance any more, and Sylvanas certainly can't by herself.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
    Out with the old, in with the new, and superior
    Night Elf Independence Movement:

  10. #230
    I wouldn't mind seeing more storytelling (or even questing) about the Alliance trying to retake Lordaeron, but in they end they should (and likely always will) fail.

    Forsaken players need those zones, to quest and level in. Plus, it seems kinda silly for zones to permanently change hands. Alliance doesn't need those zones, they already have their leveling areas.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    So basically, you're an Alliance fanboy with no real concept of how Militarily impossible that would be right?
    I've been a Horde player ever since I started playing Warcraft 2 multiplayer as Orc a long, long time ago. And I believe that the Forsaken will either leave or be kicked out of the Horde as soon as the current two faction alliances are no longer needed. Possibly in a future game. How would the Forsaken resist an Alliance/Human attack without the backing of the Horde?

    BTW, most of my WoW characters are Undead.

  12. #232
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    in general i have no problem with the game never ending (i.e. with neither the horde nor the alliance ever beating and conquering the other)

    i would like to see territorial shifts from expansion to expansion with general parity in the number of leveling and questing zones, as well as parity in the number of faction capitals.

  13. #233
    Bloodsail Admiral Junblat's Avatar
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    I think the alliance should help all of those homeless people in westfall, before starting a new devastating war with the horde

    "The truest victory, is steering the hearts of your people" Last king of Lordaeron said that, if the current king of the alliance cant rally his people behind him, he already lost.

  14. #234
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    because it sounds cool. LOR-DA-RON. Hey man where are you? Oh I don't know...a little place called LORDAERON?!

  15. #235
    Fluffy Kitten Shadow the Edgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diabl0 View Post
    I've been a Horde player ever since I started playing Warcraft 2 multiplayer as Orc a long, long time ago. And I believe that the Forsaken will either leave or be kicked out of the Horde as soon as the current two faction alliances are no longer needed. Possibly in a future game. How would the Forsaken resist an Alliance/Human attack without the backing of the Horde?

    BTW, most of my WoW characters are Undead.
    Well, that's an easy enough answer.

    Plague! Plague bombs everywhere!

    Undead Oprah: You get a plague bomb! YOU get a plague bomb! EVERYBODY GETS A PLAGUE BOMB!

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Junblat View Post
    I think the alliance should help all of those homeless people in westfall, before starting a new devastating war with the horde

    "The truest victory, is steering the hearts of your people" Last king of Lordaeron said that, if the current king of the alliance cant rally his people behind him, he already lost.
    He said "stirring" not "steering".
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-05 at 05:38 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  17. #237
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    OP you're worrying yourself over nothing. It will never happen anyway. We all know that as long as Chris Metzen is employed at Blizzard the Alliance won't gain anything.

    And even if they do, it will be done in such a way that the Horde is still made out to be the either heroic honorable enemy who is graceful in defeat, or the innocent underdog who gets butchered by the menacing lunatics in blue.

    Put it this way, the story will always be told from a Horde point of view when you've got a staff full of people who think of WoW as a Horde-centric experience. Maybe add some balance to that out in Irvine and we could see some real writing and story progression come along. But until then it will continue being the adventures of the lil' green people and their pointy eared and skeletal pals.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    OP you're worrying yourself over nothing. It will never happen anyway. We all know that as long as Chris Metzen is employed at Blizzard the Alliance won't gain anything.

    And even if they do, it will be done in such a way that the Horde is still made out to be the either heroic honorable enemy who is graceful in defeat, or the innocent underdog who gets butchered by the menacing lunatics in blue.

    Put it this way, the story will always be told from a Horde point of view when you've got a staff full of people who think of WoW as a Horde-centric experience. Maybe add some balance to that out in Irvine and we could see some real writing and story progression come along. But until then it will continue being the adventures of the lil' green people and their pointy eared and skeletal pals.
    My heart bleeds for you and all the Alliance players who haven't been the focal point of an expansion since WotLK. It's not like you didn't have WC1, 2, 3, Vanilla, TBC and WotLK...oh wait, you did.

    Horde has always been playing catch up on the lore front as they only really started getting fleshed out in WC3.

  19. #239
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Tell me one, one viable, material victory the alliance would accomplish that justified retaking Lordaeron. Not nostalgia, not "moral victories", no; a real reason why a campaign for Lordaeron would benefit the alliance as a whole and justified its cost.
    I don't have one. What I would like to happen is a cavern of time instance of lordaeron.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    and then even more technical before that it was all old god lands!
    Ia! Nagpha'yss ni shgl ftaghn! The Black Goat with Seven Eyes wants 20,000 years of back rent, with interest!

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