Thread: Tinker Class

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  1. #921
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Cursed vision is Rogue, Druid and Monk gear. Demon hunter class could be mail. No limit exists because the class does not exist.
    So WoW Demon Hunters wouldn't be able to wear a signature Demon Hunter head piece from Illidan Stormrage?

    That don't make sense.

  2. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So WoW Demon Hunters wouldn't be able to wear a signature Demon Hunter head piece from Illidan Stormrage?

    That don't make sense.
    They cant wear the warlock challenge gear either. Does that blow your mind too? Cursed vision is also old gear. Why design a class around one item? That would make less sense.

  3. #923
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    They cant wear the warlock challenge gear either. Does that blow your mind too? Cursed vision is also old gear. Why design a class around one item? That would make less sense.
    No, because that gear is specifically for Warlocks.

    The Cursed Vison of Sageras is an item associated with Demon Hunters, and it drops from THE Demon Hunter Illidan Stormrage. You don't think DH players wouldn't like to transmog that gear? You wouldn't be able to transmog that if you're wearing mail armor.

    Monks, Rogues, and Druids can wear the Cursed Vision of Sageras but not Demon Hunters? Think about that for a moment.

    It's like DHs not being able to use the Warglaives of Azzinoth.

    Consider this just another sign that DHs aren't meant to be a class in WoW.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-09-13 at 02:56 AM.

  4. #924
    Sorry, don't buy it. You simply have no other method to attack the Demon Hunter concept once you've accepted the possibility for them to wear mail (or any type of) armor. The only thing you have left to grasp on to is pushing Legacy gear as a reason for their existence, which frankly is a laughable idea.

    Blindfolds aren't limited to any armor type, and it could easily be alleviated by having visual blindfold models as a permanent part of the Demon Hunter heads. If you choose to wear a helm on top to cover that, you can. If not, leave helmet off and there you have your blindfolds. Any type of armor or helm is a stat boost, just like gear for any other class.

    Aside from all this, even if the Demon Hunter class for whatever reason was unable to wield the Blades of Azzinoth, it wouldn't be a problem at all, for two big reasons. One is that even Death Knights can not wield Frostmourne, and suffer no less without it, so Demon Hunters would not either. Two is that the Twin Blades are not transmoggable. All that needs to happen is to allow them to have access to Transmoggable versions of Warglaives, which could include the Twin Blades model (with new texture).

    Sorry, but legacy gear doesn't define a class.

  5. #925
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Sorry, don't buy it. You simply have no other method to attack the Demon Hunter concept once you've accepted the possibility for them to wear mail (or any type of) armor. The only thing you have left to grasp on to is pushing Legacy gear as a reason for their existence, which frankly is a laughable idea.

    Blindfolds aren't limited to any armor type, and it could easily be alleviated by having visual blindfold models as a permanent part of the Demon Hunter heads. If you choose to wear a helm on top to cover that, you can. If not, leave helmet off and there you have your blindfolds. Any type of armor or helm is a stat boost, just like gear for any other class.

    Aside from all this, even if the Demon Hunter class for whatever reason was unable to wield the Blades of Azzinoth, it wouldn't be a problem at all, for two big reasons. One is that even Death Knights can not wield Frostmourne, and suffer no less without it, so Demon Hunters would not either. Two is that the Twin Blades are not transmoggable. All that needs to happen is to allow them to have access to Transmoggable versions of Warglaives, which could include the Twin Blades model (with new texture).

    Sorry, but legacy gear doesn't define a class.
    You don't seem to understand what I'm saying, so I'll try again;

    The Curse Vision of Sageras indicates that a Demon Hunter would be a leather wearing class. Why? Because the Cursed Vision of Sageras is leather, and it drops from Illidan. Its also pretty iconic. The idea that Demon Hunters can't wear an iconic Demon Hunter armor is ridiculous, and makes no sense. You brushing that off as if its meaningless is pretty hilarious. You don't think the first thing a DH player would do would be to get their hands on the Cursed Vision?

    Imagine their surprise when they can't wear it because for some oddball reason Demon Hunters have to wear mail armor....


    Also since when can't Death Knights use Frostmourne? Its a 2H sword. DHs can use 2H swords.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-09-13 at 04:06 AM.

  6. #926
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You don't seem to understand what I'm saying, so I'll try again;

    The Curse Vision of Sageras indicates that a Demon Hunter would be a leather wearing class. Why? Because the Cursed Vision of Sageras is leather, and it drops from Illidan. Its also pretty iconic. The idea that Demon Hunters can't wear an iconic Demon Hunter armor is ridiculous, and makes no sense. You brushing that off as if its meaningless is pretty hilarious. You don't think the first thing a DH player would do would be to get their hands on the Cursed Vision?

    Imagine their surprise when they can't wear it because for some oddball reason Demon Hunters have to wear mail armor....


    Also since when can't Death Knights use Frostmourne? Its a 2H sword. DHs can use 2H swords.
    Jesus christ, i havnt even been following the thread and i see this nonsense

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  7. #927
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The Curse Vision of Sageras indicates that a Demon Hunter would be a leather wearing class. Why? Because the Cursed Vision of Sageras is leather, and it drops from Illidan. Its also pretty iconic. The idea that Demon Hunters can't wear an iconic Demon Hunter armor is ridiculous, and makes no sense. You brushing that off as if its meaningless is pretty hilarious. You don't think the first thing a DH player would do would be to get their hands on the Cursed Vision?

    Imagine their surprise when they can't wear it because for some oddball reason Demon Hunters have to wear mail armor....


    Also since when can't Death Knights use Frostmourne? Its a 2H sword. DHs can use 2H swords.
    Old gear is old, no matter where it comes from. I'm sorry, but gear meant for other classes that existed before a true Demon Hunter class doesn't dictate the design of new ones. On top of that, Mail wearers can use Leather gear, so even if they obtained it, they can wear it. The gear is so old that the stats or the fact that it's leather armor type don't matter at all.

    Besides, Illidan also dropped the Skull of Gul'dan, an Int. Trinket. Are you going to tell me that Demon Hunter's main stat is Int. now too?

    And Death Knights can't use Frostmourne because it's not a droppable weapon. I swear, sometimes I wonder if you've even played World of Warcraft.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2013-09-13 at 05:28 AM.

  8. #928
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    Tinker class... Gnomes with spanners. We already have Engineering so could be a specialization instead of a new class. Engineer who can put turrets for more dps or a shield generator for mitigation... or a mechanical lightwell that shoots medikits on low health players!!....

    We already have so many classes, everything is covered. Maybe make new professions.

  9. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Sorry, don't buy it. You simply have no other method to attack the Demon Hunter concept once you've accepted the possibility for them to wear mail (or any type of) armor. The only thing you have left to grasp on to is pushing Legacy gear as a reason for their existence, which frankly is a laughable idea.

    Blindfolds aren't limited to any armor type, and it could easily be alleviated by having visual blindfold models as a permanent part of the Demon Hunter heads. If you choose to wear a helm on top to cover that, you can. If not, leave helmet off and there you have your blindfolds. Any type of armor or helm is a stat boost, just like gear for any other class.

    Aside from all this, even if the Demon Hunter class for whatever reason was unable to wield the Blades of Azzinoth, it wouldn't be a problem at all, for two big reasons. One is that even Death Knights can not wield Frostmourne, and suffer no less without it, so Demon Hunters would not either. Two is that the Twin Blades are not transmoggable. All that needs to happen is to allow them to have access to Transmoggable versions of Warglaives, which could include the Twin Blades model (with new texture).

    Sorry, but legacy gear doesn't define a class.
    I really like the idea of having permanent blindfold. Would negate any use for leather items and keep all DHs true to their origin. It's much the same as what Blizzard already did with DKs (their blue eyes and pale look) only to a more noticeable degree.

  10. #930
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    yeah that's the lore/flavour/aesthetics, whatever you call
    All of which is irrelevant as far as design is concerned, and potentially inaccurate until DH is codified.

    Possible Ingame mechanics about buffs that gives your demon/demons:
    Is irrelevant. What Blizzard could do with the class has no bearing on what it CAN do and HAS done with the Warlock.

    Is there a gameplay reason you couldn't outfit the Warlock with a 4th spec and make that a Demon Hunter?

    No...there isn't.
    Is there a lore reason? No...there isn't.

    What there is is a potential conflict in how certain players see and view the DH class based on how they believe the class SHOULD be. There simply is no reason...in gameplay or lore...a DH cannot be treated as or seen to be a melee focussed Warlock.

    None at all. Just arguments based on how players THINK a Demon Hunter should act and behave and anything that they don't agree with seems to get discounted for some reason.

    We have different armor type (possible, only concepts)
    No, we don't. What we have is every single DH in game using cloth-lookalikes or no armor. You COULD get away with leather or mail, but you are highlighting a difference that doesn't exist.

    one is ranged and the other is melee
    One and only meaningful difference.

    one use and summons pets and the other has a perma-demon/soul inside him (this is why they are using same element damage).
    Pure supposition and a lore based irrelevancy if true.

    That's a joke?
    No. Gul'dan isn't the one you need to be comparing it with.

    they are the same? Really?
    And I notice that of three examples, you only used two.

    I wonder why http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...838:32837&l=85 didn't excite you?
    As I said - try it on a NElf male.

    Of course. You have a perma-demon thing inside you.
    A complete and total irrelevance.

    People keep bringing up this "DHs absorb demons" idea. But if it is permanent...as you say....its lore. Lore doesn't count. This ability then becomes background and irrelevant to the class design. If it is a meaningful buff, then DHs will need a summon.

    Either way, the argument "DHs absorb demons" does zero for the case for a standalone class. In fact, it harms it by pointing out that a DH with an absorb mechanic will need to be made even more like Warlocks.

    A pair of pants instead of a kilt. Illidan, however, is the archetypical Demon Hunter. The first of his kind. AThe rolemodel for all others.

    And he's being used to give Warlocks flavor. You might as well use Uther Lightbringer if you were correct.

    No, warlocks have 0 sets that feels like a DH, but looks like a Demon-Illidan and Dreadlords (demons).
    Seriously - you are trying to make a case that noone believes. You just need to look at the Warlock BETRAYER Regalia.

    You know - the one that gives you the same look as Illidan the Betrayer. Tattoos. Horns. You know - things noone else has. I could understand a case where you said you didn't think it looked enough like Illidan - they are obvious decals and not the "real thing". or even that Illidan wore pants and not a kilt. But to say there is NO resemblence?

    Yes. You are right. It's impossible for anybody to create a new DH class to fit a new Hero class in wow. (It's a joke).
    No. Its very possible. Thats not what I am saying.

    What I am saying that the overlap in theme, look, flavor, capabilities and so on is so great - partially because Blizzard DELIBERATELY mind the DH class for Warlock moves and look and ideas - that Blizzard CAN'T bring it in without overlapping the Warlock class almost entirely. There is little or no design room for the DH class to develop as a class. There is nothing Blizzard cannot do with the DH class that cannot be done with the Warlock class. They have the same theme, the same look, the same capabilities. Neither class has any lore which contradicts the supposition. And Blizzard has ben deliberately bringing the two classes together, merging them into one, for years.

    No. DH has 0 problems, and tinkerers too. Why? Because it's so easy to expand a 4skills-hero unit from WC3 in wow.
    Tinkers are "whimsical". They are played as a joke in game. Whats more is, they are a tech class in a game that is largely fantasy flavored.

    Demons Hunters overlap strongly with Warlocks and, to a lesser degree, some other classes. With no design room for itself, - well, that's a killer. That's more than enough reason not to develop it as a class.

    I wouldn't call that "0" problems.

    As it is...Demon Hunters have been used to give Warlocks a look, story, moves and abilities. They share the same theme of Demons. Neither one has moves exclusive to the other and NPCs even share many moves with the warlock class. Bringing DHs into the game will harm development of the Warlocks because the class theme will be diluted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Demon Hunters do not summon or sacrifice demons
    Please provide a valid, in game source for your theory.

    Demon Hunter's traditional look is also not shared at all by Warlocks, who only have one tier set that looks like Illidan.
    Wouldn't that be one half of your sentence contradicting the other?

    On top of that, Demon Hunters don't actually use Shadow Magic, despite it being in their description. Warlocks use Curses, Banes and other afflictions, which the Demon Hunter does not. Warlocks summon multiple types of demons, the DH doesn't even summon. The only similar thing is... turning into a demon.
    In game evidence suggests otherwise. DHs use Curse of Flames, they use Shadow magic, and so on.

    What you are saying is that the vision of a DH being a subset of Warlocks doesn't agree with your own personal vision of the Demon Hunter. And anything which doesn't agree with you is "unique" or an "anomaly" or "doesn't exist" or the "designers made a mistake" or which can't be counted or used for evidence for whatever reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hengwulf View Post
    Where you got all of this from? What absorb? They don't need to do that. They have no reasons to summon demons, both lorewise and gameplay-wise. You are forcing this just so you have something to support DH = Warlock idea. Stop it.
    Do they absorb Demons for power? Lets assume a "yes".

    Is it a temporary buff?
    Yes - they'll need a summon ability
    No - its lore and doesn't affect class design or implementation.

    Either way - it does nothing for your argument.

    In the actual, existing in game lore
    The fact that they are shunned, ritualistioc and secretive doesn't say anything about their (in)ability to summon demons.

    So do DHs and Warlocks. Both use fel magic. Everything else is different.
    Same schools of magic. Same theme. Same moves and abilities. Same look.

    Challenge mode warlock set reminds me of a demon, and in particular of a transformed Illidan, where he ceased to be a Demon Hunter, and instead became a Betrayer, Lord of Outland, someone who controls demons, just like warlock does. If you think that BT version of Illidan is representative for DHs, then you're wrong.
    And yet you are trying to disconnect Warlocks from DHs. Tell me...would you use Gul'dan as a model for Paladins?

    How so? Lore says that demon is inside of him all the time
    Lore? What lore? There is no such lore. The only thing close to it is a possessed Demon Hunter in SSC.

    It is very relevant. Also, skipping the bit from RPG, we have Demon Hunters in WC3, we have Leotheras the Blind, we have plenty of lore that in fact DHs contain demons within themselves.
    Permanently? That don't drive them insane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hengwulf View Post
    But they AREN'T real Demon Hunters. They are Illidari. They dropped their purpose and instead of destroying demons, they seek to control them.
    That argument is ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Any new Demon Hunter class would gain a consistent and concrete theme that fits within their own archetype
    Without rebuilding them into something different - what theme can they get that doesn't overlap with Warlocks or any other existing class?

    If you really want to build a case against the Demon Hunter's Identity conflicts, I would at least treat it in the same manner the Death Knight and Monk were added in the game. Both of those classes already faced the same tribulations that the Demon Hunter is being presented with right now, and despite whatever similarities or conflicts that exist, they were able to fit in perfectly.
    Conflicts? Looking at just theme....Death knights don't share one ith Warriors. Never did. Monks don't share one with Rogues. Never did. Never have.

    Demon Hunters - have the same theme as Warlocks. And - without a rebuild into something totally different - always have. Always will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hengwulf View Post
    The fact they do something else than they used to, and that instead of fighting demons they willing cooperate with them and embrace the corruption is enough of a distinction. Game also calls them Illidari Demon Hunters, if you want to nitpick.
    As I said - your argument is ridiculous. The game calls them Demon Hunters. But because they don't fit in with your preconceptions over motivations, they don't count?

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-09-13 at 09:57 AM.

  11. #931
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Old gear is old, no matter where it comes from. I'm sorry, but gear meant for other classes that existed before a true Demon Hunter class doesn't dictate the design of new ones. On top of that, Mail wearers can use Leather gear, so even if they obtained it, they can wear it. The gear is so old that the stats or the fact that it's leather armor type don't matter at all.
    If youre wearing a mail headpiece you can't transmog it.

    Besides, Illidan also dropped the Skull of Gul'dan, an Int. Trinket. Are you going to tell me that Demon Hunter's main stat is Int. now too?
    No one considers the Skull of Gul'dan Demon Hunter gear. However, every person going for DH transmog is going for the Cursed Visage.

    And Death Knights can't use Frostmourne because it's not a droppable weapon. I swear, sometimes I wonder if you've even played World of Warcraft.
    So in other words, no one can equip Frostmourne? That's different than other classes being able to use it, but DKs can't because for some oddball reason they couldnt use 2H swords. That wouldn't make sense.

    DHs being unable to wear the cursed visage of Sageras wouldn't make send either.

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If youre wearing a mail headpiece you can't transmog it.
    Why would you want or need to? All Demon Hunters are blind, it only makes sense to have blindfolds a part of their basic head model. Turn helm off = Blindfold.

    So in other words, no one can equip Frostmourne? That's different than other classes being able to use it, but DKs can't because for some oddball reason they couldnt use 2H swords. That wouldn't make sense.

    DHs being unable to wear the cursed visage of Sageras wouldn't make send either.
    It's a simple matter, really. Other classes can wear Illidan's gear. A Demon Hunter class would have that look available from the start, and as mail-wearers, they can still obtain and wear the Cursed Vision of Sargeras item. You do know that Mail users can wear leather, right?

    Mountains out of molehills.

  13. #933
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Why would you want or need to? All Demon Hunters are blind, it only makes sense to have blindfolds a part of their basic head model. Turn helm off = Blindfold.
    Because the Cursed Vision of Sageras is an iconic Demon Hunter headpiece.

    It's a simple matter, really. Other classes can wear Illidan's gear. A Demon Hunter class would have that look available from the start, and as mail-wearers, they can still obtain and wear the Cursed Vision of Sargeras item. You do know that Mail users can wear leather, right?

    Mountains out of molehills.
    As a Monk, I can Raid or PvP while wearing that item via transmog. Demon Hunters in mail couldn't say the same.

  14. #934
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please provide a valid, in game source for your theory.
    Demon Hunter playable class would be based on source material - The Warcraft 3 Demon Hunter hero. Demon Hunter heroes do not summon or sacrifice demons to obtain their power. Demon Hunter NPCs in WoW could be seen as different branches of the same tree. They're all Demon Hunters, but each individual is different. What we're concerned about are specifically a playable Demon Hunter, and that means one that properly represents the classic Warcraft Hero in its truest form. They are not Illidan, they are not the Illidari.

    Wouldn't that be one half of your sentence contradicting the other?
    The Warlock challenge gear is based on Illidan as a half-demon. Demon Hunters aren't all half-demons. Illidan is a Demon Hunter, Demon Hunters are not Illidan.

    In game evidence suggests otherwise. DHs use Curse of Flames, they use Shadow magic, and so on.
    They're called non-playable characters for a reason. It is not evidence if it does not relate to the subject material. We all know that NPC classes relate little to the actual design of a Player class. Death Knights can't summon hordes of skeletons, drop meteors from the sky or use Holy magic, as would be suggested by Baron Rivendare and the 4 Horsemen.

    What you are saying is that the vision of a DH being a subset of Warlocks doesn't agree with your own personal vision of the Demon Hunter. And anything which doesn't agree with you is "unique" or an "anomaly" or "doesn't exist" or the "designers made a mistake" or which can't be counted or used for evidence for whatever reason.
    It's beyond my personal vision. If I were the only one replying to you about it, then it would be personal, yes. What I'm telling you, and have been telling, has been echoed by many others here, as well as from other threads. How many people who support a Demon Hunter class actually agree with you that the Demon Hunter should be a Warlock spec? Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're the one with the unpopular theory. I've seen the thread you made polling if Demonology Locks are Demon Hunters. It was definitely not in your favour.

    Without rebuilding them into something different - what theme can they get that doesn't overlap with Warlocks or any other existing class?
    Isn't that a loaded question? By different, I assume you mean different from Warlocks, because that's what you think Demon Hunters are. Of course, you're the only one who thinks Demon Hunters are Warlocks. If you want to see one of my examples, check out the Tinker vs Demon Hunter thread that Teriz started. Feel free to think it's too different from being a Demon Hunter, it's part of the excersize. I'm not a Blizzard developer, after all.

    Conflicts? Looking at just theme....Death knights don't share one ith Warriors. Never did. Monks don't share one with Rogues. Never did. Never have.
    Sure they had conflicts. People thought the Monk was going to be Rogue 2.0. Nobody thinks that now after actually playing the Monk and finding out all their abilities.

    Demon Hunters - have the same theme as Warlocks. And - without a rebuild into something totally different - always have. Always will.
    Well based on Warcraft 3, the Demon Hunter had one ability that Warlocks took because they learned it from mimicing Illidan. Illidan is a Demon Hunter, but he's a different branch of the same tree. The branch that the player Demon Hunter is on is still a bud, and there's many different directions it can go without intertwining with the Illidan branch.

    Take a look at my concept for a Mageslayer class. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a concept that potentially fits the Demon Hunter, avoids most conflict with the Warlock, and branches off into other crazy specs to add flavour to the core class. But of course, you're going to think example = proof of concept, therefore you'll take it too seriously again and think that I'm going too far by 'making shit up'. I know you too well

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because the Cursed Vision of Sageras is an iconic Demon Hunter headpiece.
    As a Monk, I can Raid or PvP while wearing that item via transmog. Demon Hunters in mail couldn't say the same.
    Unless they make a Mail Headpiece using the exact same model as a quest reward in their starting zone?

    Demon Hunter Blindfold even exists in the game for NPCs. It's mail. In game proof that Demon Hunters can wear Mail.

    But even then, I don't know why you would want to transmog Blindfolds into Blindfolds... that's like.. Blinception or something...

    I guess the bigger question is: Why would we care? Straight out of the box, we get to look like a real Demon Hunter without having to run TBC and farming old raids. We don't even need to transmog or get an old epic. We would also have real spectral sight instead of the gimmicky track demons on your minimap thing.

    And of course the real kicker to all this - Player Demon Hunter Blindfolds will look 100X cooler than old TBC models.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2013-09-13 at 11:24 AM.

  15. #935
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    No, we don't. What we have is every single DH in game using cloth-lookalikes or no armor. You COULD get away with leather or mail, but you are highlighting a difference that doesn't exist.
    They actually use leather, not cloth. You're highlighting a resemblance that doesn't exist.
    You know - the one that gives you the same look as Illidan the Betrayer. Tattoos. Horns. You know - things noone else has. I could understand a case where you said you didn't think it looked enough like Illidan - they are obvious decals and not the "real thing". or even that Illidan wore pants and not a kilt. But to say there is NO resemblence?
    Again that set focuses on aspects of Illidan's appearance that are iconic for him, and him alone, not the other Demon Hunters.

    Do they absorb Demons for power? Lets assume a "yes".

    Is it a temporary buff?
    Yes - they'll need a summon ability
    No - its lore and doesn't affect class design or implementation.

    Either way - it does nothing for your argument.
    It is permanent, it is lore, but it is relevant, because it gives explanation for DH to use abilities related to fel magic, like Metamorphosis.

    The fact that they are shunned, ritualistioc and secretive doesn't say anything about their (in)ability to summon demons.
    There is no reason to assume they do summon demons. I don't have to provide arguments to prove they don't summon demons. We simply have no reason to assume they do. If you want to prove something that doesn't happen in game, you have to provide proof.
    Same schools of magic. Same theme. Same moves and abilities. Same look.
    Same schools of magic. Different themes. Different moves and abilities, except for the few related to using the same school of magic. Completely different look.
    And yet you are trying to disconnect Warlocks from DHs. Tell me...would you use Gul'dan as a model for Paladins?
    Illidan the corrupted lord over demons is similar to warlock. Illidan the Demon Hunter, on whom would be the new class based, is not.
    Lore? What lore? There is no such lore. The only thing close to it is a possessed Demon Hunter in SSC.
    So there is. It is also in line with what DHs in WC3 did.
    Permanently? That don't drive them insane?
    Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it does (Leotheras).
    That argument is ridiculous.
    What is ridiculous? Claiming that policeman who joined a gang and is working for them isn't representative of what a policeman should be? That is ridiculous?

    As I said - your argument is ridiculous. The game calls them Demon Hunters. But because they don't fit in with your preconceptions over motivations, they don't count?
    They game calls them Illidari Demon Hunters. You know, like there is a difference between Paladin and Fallen Paladin. Knight and Death Knight. Illidari Demon Hunters are something more and something less than regular NE Demon Hunters, so using them as an example of what DH is difficult - it is hard to tell what of the things they do comes from being a Demon Hunter, and what comes from being an Illidari.
    Last edited by Hengwulf; 2013-09-13 at 03:15 PM.

  16. #936

  17. #937
    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    So do Tinkerers have some sort of Base like how DKs have Acherus?
    Yes, and it is AMAZING.

  18. #938
    Quote Originally Posted by Hengwulf View Post
    Yes, and it is AMAZING.
    is it on a remote abandoned Oil platform deep into the seas only accessible by a ship?

  19. #939
    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    So do Tinkerers have some sort of Base like how DKs have Acherus?
    Undermine. It's the goblins' home city, as well as the headquarters of the Tinkers' Union, and it's neutral. The Cataclysm hit it but didn't destroy it, and it was stated at Blizzcon 2010 that we would be going there at an undisclosed point in the future.

    It's in the South Seas.
    Last edited by Drilnos; 2013-09-13 at 04:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Undermine. It's the goblins' home city, as well as the headquarters of the Tinkers' Union, and it's neutral. The Cataclysm hit it but didn't destroy it, and it was stated at Blizzcon 2010 that we would be going there at an undisclosed point in the future.

    It's in the South Seas.


    it's on the island of kezan, in the Goblin starter zone you can ride a little trolley that passes through one of the cave entrances of Undermine, but you never actually see the city itself.

    i think it was planned and then abandoned/set aside in the delopment of the Goblin starting zone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hengwulf View Post
    They game calls them Illidari Demon Hunters. You know, like there is a difference between Paladin and Fallen Paladin. Knight and Death Knight. Illidari Demon Hunters are something more and something less than regular NE Demon Hunters, so using them as an example of what DH is difficult - it is hard to tell what of the things they do comes from being a Demon Hunter, and what comes from being an Illidari.
    i am not sure this is a sound analogy
    illidari could just be a affiliation name, like saying 'Stormwind soldiers' versus 'gilnean soldiers' versus 'lordaeranian soldiers' versus 'Alteracian soldiers'.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2013-09-13 at 04:45 PM.
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