Thread: Tinker Class

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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I find it amazing that people still can't figure that Demon Hunter tweet out. You do understand that when GC asks a player if there's enough design space for a DH class, he's in fact saying that there's no design space for the DH class? He even goes on to mention the classes that take the DHs design space away.

    Unbelievable.
    LOL, okay.

    Question about design space = No Demon Hunters Ever

    Repeated tweets about how easy it would be for your pet class to be too whimsical or ridiculous, or how maybe someday somebody will come up with a good design /shrug (which indicates apathy to most people) = TINKERS CONFIRMED NEXT XP

    I mean, for crying out loud, if I wanted to I could pick apart that he listed hunters as competitive for Demon Hunter design space, which is ridiculous, and decide "Hunters have nothing to do with Demon Hunters! Misdirect confirmed! DHs INC!!!!!!" but I don't because it's just a tweet and that would be stupid.
    Last edited by Cooper; 2013-08-31 at 10:24 PM.

  2. #82
    I know it wont happen. But i think tinker class is much more "plassible" then demon hunter since, the super special demon hunter form demonology warlocks have, and pretty much many of their " key" abilitys have been given to warlocks anyway.

    I still hope for a Dragon aspect class. Could be so many things, Red for healing, Blue for caster, Black for melee, Bronze for i think caster. Green would also be healer, so many possibleties they could makle with a Dragon aspect class
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  3. #83
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    LOL, okay.

    Question about design space = No Demon Hunters Ever

    Repeated tweets about how easy it would be for your pet class to be too whimsical or ridiculous, or how maybe someday somebody will come up with a good design /shrug (which indicates apathy to most people) = TINKERS CONFIRMED NEXT XP

    I mean, for crying out loud, if I wanted to I could pick apart that he listed hunters as competitive for Demon Hunter design space, which is ridiculous, and decide "Hunters have nothing to do with Demon Hunters! Misdirect confirmed! DHs INC!!!!!!" but I don't because it's just a tweet and that would be stupid.
    Let's flip this around shall we?

    QYou've said WoW cannot support an infinite number of classes.With DK and now Monks added will we ever see a Tinker class?

    AIs there enough design space there not occupied by Engineering?
    How should that be interpreted? I would interpret it the same way I interpret the actual DH tweet; There isn't enough design space. There would be too much overlap between a DH and a DK, Hunter, and a Warrior.

    In the case of Tinkers, I find it pretty laughable that you fixate on the whimsical part, but seemingly ignore the repeated times where he stated the class is completely doable. He even said it would be cool.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-08-31 at 10:48 PM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    I still hope for a Dragon aspect class. Could be so many things, Red for healing, Blue for caster, Black for melee, Bronze for i think caster. Green would also be healer, so many possibleties they could makle with a Dragon aspect class
    Meh, I think Blizzard is kind of done with the aspects. It sounds really, really cool, but ever since they gave up their powers - well, it seems like an artificial goodbye to them.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Now who's reaching for stuff that's not there?

    Theres a difference between saying what he meant, and you warping his words around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    How should that be interpreted?

    It should be interpreted as a question. No more, no less.


    I would interpret it the same way I interpret the actual DH tweet; There isn't enough design space. There would be too much overlap between a DH and a DK, Hunter, and a Warrior.
    You absolutely would not. You would start crowing about how Blizzard is thinking about how to design the Tinker. You couldn't be more disingenuous about this whole topic.

  7. #87
    Im okay with tinker being a class in wow. I just despise how teriz says its fact tinker will be the next and final class in wow. To justify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    You absolutely would not. You would start crowing about how Blizzard is thinking about how to design the Tinker. You couldn't be more disingenuous about this whole topic.
    Tell us more about your telepathic ability to determine how someone else will act when the situation has not arisen.

    As for the question, it absolutely should be interpreted as Teriz is saying. The developers often come right out and say "We are actively thinking about x addition, but we're not sure how to do it." when they don't know how to do it. Saying it in the way they did is not a questionable "Oh we never thought about it." It is a statement saying we've thought a lot about it, but we can't find anything worth noting. Why would this case be different unless it's ACTUALLY different?

    And he's right. Demon Hunters fill nothing unique about the game now. Warlocks have their iconic demon transformation, Warriors fill the dual wield stance (as do rogues, dk and shaman, but for simplicity's sake), Rogues fill the agile melee fighter, Shaman and DKs fill magic melee fighter. To take all of that away from Demon Hunters would be to create a class that is NOT Demon Hunter.

    I personally wouldn't play a Tinker. But if The Dark Below is the new expansion, it would seem the South Seas would be the general leveling area if I'm guessing right. (And that's all I'm doing right now, is guessing, so feel free to call me out on this.) The South Seas is the perfect time to introduce the Tinker as it would match the setting in Kezan (Assuming the island isn't completely melted due to the volcano eruption in the Goblin starting area.) and it can be used by many if not all races. (Maybe not Nelfs and Tauren. They might be against it, being tree hugging hippies by nature and all.)

    Also, to address something I saw earlier in the thread and am very upset about because it comes up in every single thread about the new class: POPULARITY HAS NEVER LEAD TO A CLASS BEING ADDED TO THE GAME. Stop saying the next class is going to be whatever is most popular; It might be, but only if that class coincidentally fits the theme of the expansion. Classes are not added due to popularity. This is a bad idea. Demon Hunters would not fit in an Azshara expansion. Timewalkers would not fit in an expansion without Time as a major theme. Dragonsworn wouldn't fit in a Legion expansion. Etc. etc. They will not add a class only due to popularity.

    THAT BEING SAID...
    OT: There will likely not be any confirmation on a new class (If there even will be one) in the next expansion until the expansion itself is being previewed, likely at Blizzcon later this year. There's hints for a bunch of possible classes, but nothing solid.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2013-08-31 at 11:21 PM.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Tell us more about your telepathic ability to determine how someone else will act when the situation has not arisen.
    He doesnt need to be telepathic. Its how teriz works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    He doesnt need to be telepathic. Its how teriz works.
    I admit I don't frequent the forums enough to see all of this that people keep talking about. But Teriz seems to admit when he's wrong from what I have seen of him. I don't particularly agree that all of these things are necessarily true, that he keeps saying. (Realistically, I feel like a tinker would need to be in his suit to be good at anything. In which case, why wear armor at all? Nevermind mail armor.) But speculation is speculation until you try to pass it off as fact.

  11. #91
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Theres a difference between saying what he meant, and you warping his words around.
    Its pretty difficult to warp his words when he said very plainly that the Tinker class is completely workable within WoW as long as its not done in a silly fashion.

    Unless you believe that darkening a class' theme is some huge design obstacle that can't be accomplished, it would appear that a Tinker class would work perfectly fine in WoW's class lineup.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Its pretty difficult to warp his words when he said very plainly that the Tinker class is completely workable within WoW as long as its not done in a silly fashion.
    And yet in the tweet to which you continually refer, what he actually literally says is that he's not sure if the Tinker would fit into WoW.

    Question: Thanks for clarifying that. Is the Tinker a class that you feel would fit into WoW? I'd love to see it.
    Ghostcrawler's Answer: Not sure. Might be a little too whimsical for WoW. Would depend on the treatment.
    That's a far cry from "he said very plainly that the Tinker class is completely workable within WoW as long as its not done in a silly fashion." So yes, you are warping his words.

  13. #93
    Blademaster HuSaYiN's Avatar
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    i hope for it but i dont really think it is going 2 come

  14. #94
    With the Engineering profession, I sincerely doubt they will add a "Tinker" Class.

    EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I'd love an excuse to roll another gnome, but I don't think it's going to happen.

  15. #95
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    And yet in the tweet to which you continually refer, what he actually literally says is that he's not sure if the Tinker would fit into WoW.



    That's a far cry from "he said very plainly that the Tinker class is completely workable within WoW as long as its not done in a silly fashion." So yes, you are warping his words.


    Do you guys have some sort of defect where you miss the conclusion of a statement?

    He concluded that tweet by saying It would depend on the treatment.

    He also said this;

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 1h

    @NathanielCraver I've said before it depends on the treatment. Too easy for that class to be too wacky or precious.

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 1h

    @NathanielCraver A more steampunk vibe sounds cool to me. A dude in a mech having misfires that poop out springs and gears less so.

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 1h

    @NathanielCraver I don't know. Lucca from Chrono Trigger could work. A little bit of gnomish (tee hee) world enlarger goes a long way IMO.

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 1h

    @NathanielCraver But maybe one of the designers will come up with a pitch perfect design that blows us away someday. Shrug.
    He stated that Bards are too soft. He stated that Demon Hunters overlapped too much with existing classes. However with Tinkers, he says that as long as its not done in a silly manner, it fits as a class in WoW.

  16. #96
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We just had a poll where Tinkers beat out Demon Hunters by about 40 votes.
    Hey Teriz, do you have that whole thing ready to paste?

    Also even Blizzard has said Forums=/=The entire playerbase, a forum poll, on a fansite, isn't giving you much of the WoW community.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Think there was another blue that just said straight up that it was too much work. You've got to consider 'bang for buck' as well, I think a new class would have more impact than new specs and if it comes at less work, then it answers itself.
    Yet again, those two quotes don't really say what you are trying to make them say. He's simply pointing out some of the issues with adding a 4th spec or a new role to an existing class.

    The issues aren't even that valid for Warlocks given their past history wrt tanking and the continuing linkage with the DH class. Those constraints don't exist because the Warlock class already has them built in. Nor is the unsourced assertion that it was too much work....as much of the work needed for a Warlock 4th spec/new role has already been done.

    You are simply applying generic statements to a specific scenario without even trying to see if they are relevant. And yet again, they are not.

    Adding a 4th spec or a new role to an existing class has pros and cons. There is less design room, more constraints...yes. You don't have to worry about how existing players may or may not feel or how a new role will interact with existing abilities designed and balanced around a different toolkit.

    I personally do not believe Demon Hunters will ever be a standalone class. It already has a huge overlap with Warlocks and one tweet you didn't quote emphasised the need for uniqueness and the problems of homogenity....a longstanding and well known concern of Blizzard and others.

    Warlocks have a history of tanking, they have tank orientated abilities and mechanics, and they have a deliberately strong linkage with Demon Hunters developed over several years and who are consistently shown as tanks. And all of that neatly eviscerates any relevance from those two tweets.

    EJL

  18. #98
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Hey Teriz, do you have that whole thing ready to paste?

    Also even Blizzard has said Forums=/=The entire playerbase, a forum poll, on a fansite, isn't giving you much of the WoW community.
    Ever stop to wonder why GC is answering so many questions about Tinkers?

    Maybe its because he's getting asked about them, a lot.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again; The Tinker concept is more popular than many give it credit for.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    And yet in the tweet to which you continually refer, what he actually literally says is that he's not sure if the Tinker would fit into WoW.
    If it would "depend on the treatment" then by definition, there are some treatments where it would work, would be acceptable, would not be too whimsical, would fit into the game as a player class.

    My own feeling is that the only that could survive from the WC3 treatment would be the name. Everything else can safely be scrapped. What you want from the "Tinker" - if that ends up being the class name - is NOT actually a Tinker. A Tinker is probably the LAST thing you want it to be. Its too whimsical, too silly.

    What you want is a class who has a Tech based theme. (And please - no pedantic nitpicky arguments about what is and what is not "tech")


    A tech based theme, whatever it is called, doesn't need to be as silly or as whimsical as the Tinker. A Gunman/Combat Medic/Steam Warrior hybrid, for example could recieve a very serious treatment. It wouldn't need to rely on Explosive Sheep but it would have Concussion Grenades, and Wrist Lasers and anti-armor missiles or use a pistol and vibro sword combo or dual pistols or a rifles or gas grenades and healing drones or whatever.

    There is a great deal of room for the class to be as light hearted or as serious as you want - but I think a more serious approach, losing all/most of the little clockwork gadgets and light hearted touches would work far better for a player class than the in game Tinker.

    Which means no backpacks mounting huge fists. No explosive sheep. No turning into a robot. No pocket factories which churn out little mini robots. And probably no cluster missiles. And...to keep the theme straightforward - no alchemists or apothecaries. Lets leave the magical potions to the Warlocks. If Tinkers have to heal, lets make it tech based.

    EJL

  20. #100
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    I really didn't think when I created this thread it would get so much attention lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

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