Thread: Tinker Class

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  1. #1241
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You mean re-introduced, since we already had a Demon Hunter expansion via TBC, and we kind of killed most of them in the process.
    Introduced, because a Demon Hunter playable class was never made.

    Immediately following that, Warlocks started getting Demon Hunter abilities.
    Warlocks were inspired by Demon Hunters from the very beginning. Was it every in doubt that the Warlock draws inspiration from the class? It took spells from the Demon Hunter, Pitlord, Dreadlord - and even Death Knight. When they designed WoW's classes, they focused on taking what familiar and iconic abilities there were and allocating them to appropriate classes to fill out a broad spectrum. They didn't have Hero classes in mind, that's why a spell like Death Coil was first given to Warlocks, which was retroactively changed when the actual Death Knight class was introduced.

    A "redemption" story for DHs sounds kind of silly. It makes since for DKs because they're fallen champions. Demon Hunters actively choose to embrace the darkness of demonic magic (just like Warlocks).
    Demon Hunters aren't evil. Illidan fell to his own pride, going full-blown demonic. There's really nothing to say that the Demon Hunter champion for the Player Class will go in a new, better direction that fits the Alliance and Horde. And if Illidan does return, he will likely have a redemption or revenge story, where he goes back to being a classic Anti-Hero instead of pure villain. I don't see Blizzard making Kerrigan 2.0 out of him. He's a damned cool character, but he doesn't need to be tied to the playable class. I mean look at Chen Stormstout; we have playable Monks and none of them have anything to do with him.

  2. #1242
    I want say read in here from Teriz that wow want be making many more exspansion for wow. I like they wil be look at ever quest at over 20 and wow way more popular that so wow will be here for many more years

  3. #1243
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    As the Tinker Hero unit from WC3 had only 4 abilities, should Tinkers become a playable class this argument will be applicable to probably 98% of their abilities. Don't use it, it works against you.
    Sukhoi's argument is that Tinkers are already in the game via Engineering. If that were the case, at least one of its abilities would show up in Engineering.

    None of them do.

    That was my point.

  4. #1244
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Sukhoi's argument is that Tinkers are already in the game via Engineering. If that were the case, at least one of its abilities would show up in Engineering.

    None of them do.

    That was my point.
    Two of them do actually.

    My argument for tinkers and demon hunters are both lorewise. Theres no reason for them to join the horde/alliance. They wouldve been playable classes by now. Tinkers have no reason to suddenly become a playable class, and dhs are outcasts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  5. #1245
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Introduced, because a Demon Hunter playable class was never made.
    That's pretty irrelevant. If they were going to be a playable class, they would have been such in the expansion where we faced Illidan, and we fought with and against many Demon Hunters. Warlocks getting Demon Hunter abilities after TBC supports that.

    Warlocks were inspired by Demon Hunters from the very beginning. Was it every in doubt that the Warlock draws inspiration from the class? It took spells from the Demon Hunter, Pitlord, Dreadlord - and even Death Knight. When they designed WoW's classes, they focused on taking what familiar and iconic abilities there were and allocating them to appropriate classes to fill out a broad spectrum. They didn't have Hero classes in mind, that's why a spell like Death Coil was first given to Warlocks, which was retroactively changed when the actual Death Knight class was introduced.
    Death Coil wasn't the Death Knight spell from WC3. I don't know how many times I need to repeat that.

    I mean look at Chen Stormstout; we have playable Monks and none of them have anything to do with him.
    You mean beyond the fact that the entire class was modeled after him?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Two of them do actually.
    Please point out the Tinker abilities in Engineering.

    My argument for tinkers and demon hunters are both lorewise. Theres no reason for them to join the horde/alliance. They wouldve been playable classes by now. Tinkers have no reason to suddenly become a playable class, and dhs are outcasts.
    Goblins and Gnomes being in opposing factions, and being technological rivals give Tinkers plenty reason to be a class for the Horde and the Alliance.

  6. #1246
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That's pretty irrelevant. If they were going to be a playable class, they would have been such in the expansion where we faced Illidan, and we fought with and against many Demon Hunters. Warlocks getting Demon Hunter abilities after TBC supports that.



    Death Coil wasn't the Death Knight spell from WC3. I don't know how many times I need to repeat that.



    You mean beyond the fact that the entire class was modeled after him?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Please point out the Tinker abilities in Engineering.



    Goblins and Gnomes being in opposing factions, and being technology rivals give Tinkers plenty reason to be a class for the Horde and the Alliance.
    Goblins are part of the horde? Gnomes alliance? Or am i crazy? What i mean is. Monks were an undiscovered style of fighting where the teachings were taught to us. Death Knights were betrayed and broke free.

    With Tinkers, its not like theres a secret sect of super badass tinkers out there, where "We want to help you voljin and varian".

    Explosive sheep does the exact same thing as pocket factory. And the mortar and glove TINKERING ABILITY are cluster rockets. Please tell me how shooting someone with a rocket, isnt an ability? Putting a sheep down that chases someone and explodes? Its an ability no matter how much you dont want to believe it. It has damage and has a cooldown. All the characteristics of an ability.
    Last edited by Sukhoi; 2013-09-18 at 01:11 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  7. #1247
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Goblins are part of the horde? Gnomes alliance? Or am i crazy?

    Explosive sheep does the exact same thing as pocket factory.
    Explosive Sheep:

    Explosive Sheep
    Item Level 30
    Use: Summons an Explosive Sheep which will charge at a nearby enemy and explode for 135 to 165 damage. Lasts for 3 min or until it explodes. (1 Min Cooldown)
    Pocket Factory
    Creates a factory which automatically constructs Clockwerk Goblins. Clockwerk Goblins explode upon death, causing damage to nearby enemy units.
    You believe that's the same ability?

    And the mortar and glove TINKERING ABILITY are cluster rockets. Please tell me how shooting someone with a rocket, isnt an ability? Putting a sheep down that chases someone and explodes? Its an ability no matter how much you dont want to believe it.
    Mortar isn't in the game anymore.

    And Cluster Rockets is an AoE stun ability that does fire damage. The glove rocket ability is single target, and has a long cooldown.

    They don't even share a name.

    This is closest thing I've seen to the actual ability;

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=136110

    However its uncatagorized. It won't end up in Engineering because Engineering is a profession.

    Need I remind you that Trinkets and Items aren't class abilities?
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-09-18 at 01:16 AM.

  8. #1248
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Need I remind you that Trinkets and Items aren't class abilities?
    He's right. Making the character use an item that procs an ability is still an ability.

    And btw the explosive sheep and pocket factory robot goblin are exactly the same.

  9. #1249
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riarden View Post
    He's right. Making the character use an item that procs an ability is still an ability.

    And btw the explosive sheep and pocket factory robot goblin are exactly the same.
    Incorrect.

    1. The Goblin is produced in a factory.
    2. The Goblin attacks the target a few times before exploding.
    3. Its a robotic goblin, not a robotic sheep.
    4. One is called Clockwork Goblin, the other is called Exploding Sheep.

    Its not exactly the same. The only thing they have in common is that they both explode. That's like saying a firecracker is "exactly the same" as an atom bomb.

    Also items stay at the same potency forever. So an Exploding Sheep will always do about 100 damage, even when you hit level 90.

    An actual class ability? That scales with you as you level.

  10. #1250
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Incorrect.

    1. The Goblin is produced in a factory.
    2. The Goblin attacks the target a few times before exploding.
    3. Its a robotic goblin, not a robotic sheep.
    4. One is called Clockwork Goblin, the other is called Exploding Sheep.

    Its not exactly the same. The only thing they have in common is that they both explode. That's like saying a firecracker is "exactly the same" as an atom bomb.
    More like saying a firecracker is the same as a roman candle, but okay tough guy. How's that fantasy world youre in?

  11. #1251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riarden View Post
    More like saying a firecracker is the same as a roman candle, but okay tough guy. How's that fantasy world youre in?
    Its a fair comparison, since the Exploding Sheep is a toy that you use for shoots and giggles. In WC3 you used Pocket Factory to bring down heroes and entire armies.

  12. #1252
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Its a fair comparison, since the Exploding Sheep is a toy that you use for shoots and giggles. In WC3 you used Pocket Factory to bring down heroes and entire armies.
    According to blizzard, its whimsical. So most people view the pocket factory goblins for "shoots and giggles" as well.

  13. #1253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riarden View Post
    According to blizzard, its whimsical. So most people view the pocket factory goblins for "shoots and giggles" as well.
    Except we have no idea what Blizzard considers whimsical and doesn't consider whimsical, and GC never mentioned PF as a whimsical ability specifically.

    You also have no idea what "most people" think.

    So you're wrong on both counts.

  14. #1254
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except we have no idea what Blizzard considers whimsical and doesn't consider whimsical, and GC never mentioned PF as a whimsical ability specifically.

    You also have no idea what "most people" think.

    So you're wrong on both counts.
    Whimsical means whimsical. In diablo 3 whimsishire is all rainbows unicorns, flowers and sunshine. I think we have a pretty clear definition of blizzards whimsical. And most people on this website hate you and your concept. So im gonna go ahead and stand by what i said.

  15. #1255
    Oh god, did Sukhoi get banned again? ROFLOL...

    Honestly when i see all those gnome/goblin bases in outland and other places - it does look way too whimsical, with a lot of metal machines moving almost like they are living organisms.

    Tinker/Alchemist stuff would have to be a lot more serious than that if it is to be a respectable-looking class.

    What i do know is that i would greatly enjoy playing a Tinker/Alchemist class, especially if it was made as a 4 spec hybrid.

    I guess a Demon Hunter (Fire/Shadow/Arcane with Weaponized Martial Arts and Demonology?) could also be cool - kind of a risky gamble, since at the end of design it might not even resemble the Warcraft 3 DHs...
    Tinker + Alchemist in a single class:
    Tank spec: robotics, steampunk hammers/chainsaws, grappling hooks and heavy machinery.
    Melee dps spec: doping yourself with chems and tossing vicious acids on the enemies.
    Ranged dps: rockets, lasers, TNT critters and explosives, shrink rays and sapper mines.
    Healing spec: chemical sprays, needles, exploding flasks and other chemical type abilities to heal.

  16. #1256
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Oh god, did Sukhoi get banned again? ROFLOL...

    Honestly when i see all those gnome/goblin bases in outland and other places - it does look way too whimsical, with a lot of metal machines moving almost like they are living organisms.

    Tinker/Alchemist stuff would have to be a lot more serious than that if it is to be a respectable-looking class.

    What i do know is that i would greatly enjoy playing a Tinker/Alchemist class, especially if it was made as a 4 spec hybrid.

    I guess a Demon Hunter (Fire/Shadow/Arcane with Weaponized Martial Arts and Demonology?) could also be cool - kind of a risky gamble, since at the end of design it might not even resemble the Warcraft 3 DHs...
    For saying idiot. Read his posts. He's been pretty reasonable. You know, i could report you for your avatar. Im jewish after all. And pretty offended.

  17. #1257
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Stop with the personal attacks on one another and get back to the topic. If everything about tinkers has been said that needs to be said move on.

    As well, do not discuss moderation, who is banned, etc. It's derailing, off-topic and pointless.
    A bit of civility and respect for others opinions goes a long way toward getting any respect in return. Overly hostile, profane and insulting posts are a sign that people don't really have anything to say. Profanity is best served out in very small doses.

    "Forum drama exists because people enjoy creating it." - ML/2013

  18. #1258
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Stop with the personal attacks on one another and get back to the topic. If everything about tinkers has been said that needs to be said move on.

    As well, do not discuss moderation, who is banned, etc. It's derailing, off-topic and pointless.
    Can you please close this. Please.

  19. #1259
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riarden View Post
    Whimsical means whimsical. In diablo 3 whimsishire is all rainbows unicorns, flowers and sunshine. I think we have a pretty clear definition of blizzards whimsical. And most people on this website hate you and your concept. So im gonna go ahead and stand by what i said.
    Yet there's a class in the game that throws barrels of alcohol at targets and gets them drunk in the process. We have no clue what Blizzard means by whimsical. Additionally GC said "might be".

    Also as I said before, you don't know what most people think;

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ss-Idea-(Long)

    "Most people" who participated in that poll liked my concept.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...S-Demon-Hunter

    "Most people" who participated in that poll preferred Tinkers to Demon Hunters.


    You can stand behind your statements if you wish.

    That doesn't make you any less wrong.

  20. #1260
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except we have no idea what Blizzard considers whimsical and doesn't consider whimsical, and GC never mentioned PF as a whimsical ability specifically.

    You also have no idea what "most people" think.

    So you're wrong on both counts.
    Technically he isn't wrong. He could be wrong about what most people think or he could be right. He doesn't know but then again neither do you, so you don't know whether or not he is wrong.

    From an unbiased third party. I think mechanically and thematically the exploding sheep and pocket factory are extremely similar, where they differ is in the skin and the damage.

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