Tinker Class

[Talen]

So do you believe Warlocks can make the transition to all permanently blind themselves, gain ritualistic tattooes? Or do you believe that Demon Hunters do not need any of that to function as a Warlock spec?

I think you're overemphasising the importance of what appears to be an optional requirement that exists only in non-canonical lore and which does nothing to impede the development of Demon Hunters as a melee/tanking focussed Warlock 4th spec.

In essence - no, you don't need to ritually blinded or tattooed to be a Demon Hunter. That "lore" doesn't exist in game and is contradicted even in the RPGs. If it is non-canon...why should it count against a Warlock 4th spec? If the RPGs can show examples of DHs with no blindfolds, why assume that they are mandatory anyway?

EJL

[Pigglix]

The lore can change. remember the first gen of Death Knights and what we have now.

IF Blizz decide to make the DH playable, hell, they can make their eyes glow green, more greenie than the Belves eyes instead of making them using the blindfold and burning their eyes.

[Hengwulf]

I think you're overemphasising the importance of what appears to be an optional requirement that exists only in non-canonical lore and which does nothing to impede the development of Demon Hunters as a melee/tanking focussed Warlock 4th spec.

In essence - no, you don't need to ritually blinded or tattooed to be a Demon Hunter. That "lore" doesn't exist in game and is contradicted even in the RPGs. If it is non-canon...why should it count against a Warlock 4th spec? If the RPGs can show examples of DHs with no blindfolds, why assume that they are mandatory anyway?

EJL

Dhs in WC3 and WoW have blindfolds, glaives and tatoos as something visually distinctive for them. It is not optional, it is visually defining DHs. That is why warlocks have -nothing- from DH look, because warlocks are not and aren't meant to be DHs.

[Futhark]

It would also shine some much needed light on two very neglected classes.

I'm sure you meant races. It's okay though; confusing classes with races or professions is a common mistake.

[Sukhoi]

I'd rather see a Spell Breaker, Warden or Dark Ranger than a Demon Hunter or Tinker/SteamWarrior.. But that's just me (:

I personally think youre going to see that. Spell breaker is elvish, as is dark ranger, so theres a strong possibility of a ranger class. Wardens sadly are being funneled into rogues.

[Talen]

LOL, that is from the RPG,

The non-canonical RPG. None of the info there is valid anymore. What we have is a look that can be attached to Demon Hunters but which doesn't exclude the possibility to them being a Warlock subspec.

There is no current lore forbidding it.
The RPG lore doesn't even really forbid it because the same RPG which provided those quotes also gave examples of Demon Hunters which contradicted the assertion such acts were necessary to be a DH. Your "ritual" appears to be nothing more than a membership rite so NElfs DHs will accept you as one of their own.

The only concern anyone has ever raised it that it simply doesn't meet their own personal idea of what a DH stands for. And that is a reason that has zero impact on class design.

I can take the Demonology spec and with relatively little work turn it into a fully fledged, fully viable melee tanking spec called "Demon Hunter". Blizzard has enough experience to do it better than I, with more balance and polish.

It wouldn't change or later the lore of either class to do so, nor affect the identity or theme or look or flavor of either class.

Why does the game need a DH class when this is possible? When a DH would simply retrace a lot of ground already taken up by the Warlock? When Blizzard wants to avoid issues such as homogeniety as much as possible?

The privilege of being called "Demon Hunter" in quest texts simply isn't worth that. And THAT would be the main benefit of a dedicated DH class.

The DH needs to bring more to the game than another way to play a class with a theme centered around Demons. Especially a class that has already been stripped of its look, its moves, its flavor for the benefit of other classes.

This is where the Tinker concept shines. The tech theme is one which hasn't been mined yet. There is no crossover with existing specs or classes. It is flexible enough so it can take on any role...even spell DPS via the TechnoMage concept. And it can act as a vehicle through which the Gnomes story can potentially be advanced.

The downsides? Flavor. Tech in a fantasy style game? Might be offputting. Representation. The Alliance is FAR more tech orientated than the Horde. Whimsical. The implementation of the Tinker in the WC3 game is far too whimsical, far too silly, far too ridiculous.

Dhs in WC3 and WoW have blindfolds, glaives and tatoos as something visually distinctive for them. It is not optional, it is visually defining DHs. That is why warlocks have -nothing- from DH look, because warlocks are not and aren't meant to be DHs.

Betrayer Regalia? They have the look of the most infamous Demon Hunter of them all.

EJL

[Hengwulf]

Betrayer Regalia? They have the look of the most infamous Demon Hunter of them all.

Betrayer Regalia look like demon Illidan, not like demon hunter Illidan. Both warlocks and demon hunters are about demons, but you don't need Betrayer Regalia to know that.

Glaives, blindfolds, tattoos - locks got none of those. For a warlock to look like a demon hunter, they both need to metamorphose. If you consider those three things optional, what is left really?

[Talen]

Betrayer Regalia look like demon Illidan, not like demon hunter Illidan.

What makes you think Illidan stopped being a Demon Hunter?

Both warlocks and demon hunters are about demons, but you don't need Betrayer Regalia to know that.

And that one fact alone is enough to kill the class...Blizzard doesn't need to have two classes cover the same ground. Any story you can tell with a DH, can be told with a Warlock.

Glaives, blindfolds, tattoos - locks got none of those.

You know what it'd take to get those into the game for Warlocks?

Tattoos? Already in via the Betrayer regalia.
Glaives? Give Warlocks Dual wielding and add them to the Glaives.
Blindfold? Create a cloth Blindfold.

In other words...purely cosmetic options that are very easy for Blizzard to add. Or, in the case of tattoos, already have.

For a warlock to look like a demon hunter, they both need to metamorphose. If you consider those three things optional, what is left really?

The actual class itself is left. Looks are important in many ways...but the looks here are extremely easy to add.

Try this, for example:

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...21;45479:4+0:0

Its what you'd get with DW and a blindfold.

EJL

[Sukhoi]

What makes you think Illidan stopped being a Demon Hunter?



And that one fact alone is enough to kill the class...Blizzard doesn't need to have two classes cover the same ground. Any story you can tell with a DH, can be told with a Warlock.



You know what it'd take to get those into the game for Warlocks?

Tattoos? Already in via the Betrayer regalia.
Glaives? Give Warlocks Dual wielding and add them to the Glaives.
Blindfold? Create a cloth Blindfold.

In other words...purely cosmetic options that are very easy for Blizzard to add. Or, in the case of tattoos, already have.



The actual class itself is left. Looks are important in many ways...but the looks here are extremely easy to add.

Try this, for example:

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...21;45479:4+0:0

Its what you'd get with DW and a blindfold.

EJL

Jesus christ give warlocks a fourth spec and dual wield passive and int to ap conversion

[Jessicka]

Jesus christ give warlocks a fourth spec and dual wield passive and int to ap conversion

The issue with this is Hit/Expertise.

[Sukhoi]

The issue with this is Hit/Expertise.

Spirit = expertise. Their gear has hit rating anyway. Dude im a demon hunter fan too. The chance for them is slim.

[Grubjuice]

true story, if you put arguments in bold, or color them red, or make the font larger, those arguments are more true.

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they can give AP, Hit and exp to any intellect class if they can give AP, hit and exp to Mistweavers

[Hengwulf]

What makes you think Illidan stopped being a Demon Hunter?

He turned into demon. He set himself new goals. He practically stopped being one.

And that one fact alone is enough to kill the class...Blizzard doesn't need to have two classes cover the same ground. Any story you can tell with a DH, can be told with a Warlock.

Wrong. There are plenty of things shared between many classes, and it works just fine. Your statement can be paraphrased changing the name of classes, and it'll still remain true. So, not a factor.

You know what it'd take to get those into the game for Warlocks?

Yes. Change warlocks into something what they are not.

Tattoos? Already in via the Betrayer regalia.

Wearing a set of clothes doesn't make you tattoed. Also, this set is made to look like a specific person, the fact that person at some stage of his life was a demon hunter and kept some of the look, doesn't mean the demon hunter look is meant for warlocks. Would be very easy to incorporate blindfold as part of this set, didn't happen. Maybe for a reason.

Glaives? Give Warlocks Dual wielding and add them to the Glaives.

This works with every class and every item in the game. Give X Y and add them to Y- type legendary. The fact it is possible isn't a reason to do it.

Blindfold? Create a cloth Blindfold.

No lore reasons for warlocks to wear a blindfold.

In other words...purely cosmetic options that are very easy for Blizzard to add.

It is very easy to swap mage look with rogue look. Mage looking like a rogue will still be a caster, and rogue looking like a mage will still be melee. Same case here. If you want to swap abilities too, then grats, you came up with how to replace warlocks with demon hunters.

[Jessicka]

Spirit = expertise. Their gear has hit rating anyway. Dude im a demon hunter fan too. The chance for them is slim.

Why this insane need to pile up special rules on special rules? Just make a new goddamn class.

[Sukhoi]

K so let the record show demon hunters werent demon hunters as an original class. Illidan was a mage. Warlocks can become demon hunters by assumption?

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Why this insane need to pile up special rules on special rules? Just make a new goddamn class.

I just want this thread to die.

[Drilnos]

Why this insane need to pile up special rules on special rules? Just make a new goddamn class.

Every spec in every class has special rules piled up on special rules. They're called "passives."

A new class would have just as many of them.

[Jessicka]

Every spec in every class has special rules piled up on special rules. They're called "passives."

A new class would have just as many of them.

Yes, and they wouldn't need to be contrived or convoluted to account for those held by existing specs. This is my point.

[Grubjuice]

you know you could simply ignore this thread.

[Sukhoi]

you know you could simply ignore this thread.

Kind of hard to ignore when every day theres a "tinker is new class" thread

[Stormdash]

Kind of hard to ignore when every day theres a "tinker is new class" thread

Amen. Not sure if it's to convince Blizzard, bystanders, or themselves.

IMO, every half-formed class idea with a lot of overlap should just be turned into the template for some sort of advanced-classing, multi-classing system. One model is what they did in CoH/CoV with the ancillary power pools, basically at high level, accessing a small pool of abilities that belong to an entirely different archetype. If Tinker and Demon Hunter are a) things that theoretically any existing class could "be", and b) things without quite enough unique attributes/abilities to be a stand alone class, then run with it. Tinker-specced Warriors and Demon Hunter-specced Monks and such. That would be a way to bring in other popular but essentially half-baked ideas like Runemasters and Bards* and Dragonsworn.

*Bard probably as standalone class is that the role itself doesn't exist in WoW, so unless they are going to break the "trinity", it would be another advanced class idea.