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  1. #1

    Question The fifth, yet unnamed Old god. Creator of trolls?

    Yogg-Saron
    C'thun
    N'zoth
    Y'shaarj


    These are the four known Old gods of the five that are written about in the lore of Azeroth.

    C'thun and Yogg-Saron and the third unnamed old god seems to be imprisoned underneath the depths of Azeroth. Question is, when the last old god will make his appearance. N'zoth is no where to be found and seemingly was able to escape the clutches of the Titans and during this time he created the Emerald Nightmare.

    What intrigues me is the following; Troll is the only playable race that existed before the Titans came to Azeroth. But also the only race who refer the titans as the travellers. And if trolls managed to survive during the raging battles between the elements and old gods warring eachother... They are rather stronger than the WoW makers seems to want to depict them. In other words, they are simple beating bags. But it will also explain why the trolls hatred enemy is Arcane magic.

    Arcane magic originates from the first Well. A well that was created by the Titans which means that the titans brought Arcane to Azeroth and before that there was none and that is why the trolls still use their magic LOA which is both mysterious and dangerous to other races.

    During my small argues with different people and the seemingly comparison between Wowpedia and Wowwiki to get the most out of the lore from both angles I have kind of found a small indication that Aqir, Faceless, Trolls are in possible fact armies of the different old gods.

    That brings us to next question, What if the fifth, yet unnamed Old god is perhaps the troll creator? The greatest LOA and the master of their race. How will Darkspear conflict with this old god if it true? Will they turn on their horde brethren to service their old god like the Mantid went to the voice of Y'shaarj?

    After all, the old gods weren't in great terms with each other before the titans came. HAving their own citadels where they dwelled and schemed against each other to become the greatest of them. It is even written that the two united old gods C'thun and Yogg-Saron had a war with N'zoth's minions.

    That leads to the question, who created the troll race and for what purpose? Were they an army as well like Aqir and Faceless ones? Who were their master? Perhaps the fifth unnamed old god. The only old god that can whisper into their minds and bring them back in unified force? After all, if C'thun or Yogg-Saron could hold control of eachothers minions. Why didn't they try to reach out towards the Mantid? Mantid, a race who served their old god blindly... But perhaps... They could not? Not because of the mist but because the mantid was never created to serve them. They were created to serve Y'shaarj whom is in pieces but not fully dead. As long the Sha roams the land of Pandaria, he will never fully be dead.

    And where is the last Titan facility that hides the third Old god? Yogg-Saron was in a titan facility and threw his influence on the guards. C'thun was in a titan facility that he rebuilt with the Qiraji... Where is the last Old gods prison? What might guard it and what might its schemes for release give us?

    The question is mainly;

    Is the fifth old god the creator of trolls? The master LOA?
    How will Darkspear respond to the old god if it true? Will they turn their back on their maker?
    What will happen to the night elves and blood elves whom carry the blood of trolls even if they are twisted by arcane?
    Where is the last Old God imprisoned and why hasn't he tried resurface yet?

  2. #2
    C'Thun wasn't in a Titan facility. Remember, the titans assumed C'thun to be dead as a doorknob. The 'facility' you're speaking of is in fact the Qiraji kingdom.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    This kinda depends on which website you read for the history of WoW. You could either read that the Titans came first or that the Old Gods did.

    Trolls were basically the first sentient race, iirc. They were around before the Titans came but also before the Old Gods. They also have amazing regenerative abilities so that surviving is a little easier. If they really do predate the Titans, that makes the Troll race more than 50,000 years old. And honestly, I see them siding with the Titans more than the Old Gods.

    Personally, I believe that the Loa are just Gods in the same way that Malorne and co are Gods. Not related to the Titans or Old Gods in any way whatsoever. Can't regular Trolls become Loa when they die, anyway? I may have that wrong but I remember reading about a certain troll dying and either becoming a Loa or joining the Loa maybe. Hell, given that Night Elves are an evolution of Troll, Gods like Malorne could really just be Night Elven Loa.

    Basically, no, I don't believe that the Troll race has anything to do with the Old Gods or the Titans. I'll wait until Blizzard flesh out that part of the lore I think, or for someone to correct me, ofc

    Note: I've missed a lot of comic/manga/WoW magazine lore so could be miles off.
    Last edited by UnifiedDivide; 2013-08-31 at 03:35 PM.

    Rarely updated...

  4. #4
    I certainly wouldn't mind this. Personally I think that the fifth Old God is the one hinted to be under Vash'jir and corrupting L'ghorek which could fit in with your theory quite well depending on where Zandalar Isle happens to be.

  5. #5
    There is no 5th one, the 5th one is just remains of N'zoth when he was on land (hes in water or in between the dream right now or something)

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    There is no 5th one, the 5th one is just remains of N'zoth when he was on land (hes in water or in between the dream right now or something)
    There are 5 chained old gods beneath the earth according to the WC III Manuel itself so there is a 5th one in addition to WoWpedia

    The Old Gods (also known as the Old-Gods,[1] Old Ones, Elder Gods, elder beings, dark elders, or dread elders) are a group of eldritch horrors who ruled the planet of Azeroth in the days before the titans arrived to shape and order it. The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the five evil gods far beneath the surface of the world

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kassadin View Post
    C'Thun wasn't in a Titan facility. Remember, the titans assumed C'thun to be dead as a doorknob. The 'facility' you're speaking of is in fact the Qiraji kingdom.
    Tol'vir built around C'thun corpse a Titan facility which got taken over by the Aqir, the Temple of AQ is in fact an Old Titan city.


    My guess: Trolls were around Azeroth before Old Gods & Titans, though Titans later empowered them to fight for them, in Shadows of the Horde it is stated that Vol'jin could read the Titanic Language on those Stone Tablets in the Dagger of the Dark Scenario and learned how he could instantly revert the Curse of Flesh on Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes through Shadow Hunter magic, since Shadow Hunter / Voodoo Magic is pretty much limited to Trolls i guess that these magics have titan roots.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
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  8. #8
    Well, I guess it depends on what the "Loa" actually are.

    There are theories that Ula-Tek that the ZA Trolls worship may have been an old god or (along with Hakkar) could be their offspring.

    I've always been curious about what the hell Elune actually is too. An old god? a Loa? Did she used to hang out with the old gods back before the titans came?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GuldTasken View Post
    Is the fifth old god the creator of trolls? The master LOA?
    How will Darkspear respond to the old god if it true? Will they turn their back on their maker?
    What will happen to the night elves and blood elves whom carry the blood of trolls even if they are twisted by arcane?
    Where is the last Old God imprisoned and why hasn't he tried resurface yet?
    I don't think there's any serious evidence for this, especially since it's impossible to even say whether the Old Gods or Titans were on Azeroth first. Also, "loa" doesn't need to be in all caps, and it's a really broad word that seems to basically just mean "spirit" in the general sense of anything otherwordly or ancient. It's similar to the Japanese use of "kami" (if you're familiar with the Shinto faith) in that it can be used to refer to a spirit that is god-like, but also things like a single wisp, or possibly even mortals who in their life time were very connected to the spirits (sen'jin).

    There's really no reason for the Darkspear to suddenly shift to Old god worship, even if they were created by the Old Gods, it'd be something their race did more than 15,000 years ago. That would be like humans/dwarves/gnomes suddenly deciding to obey every command of the Titans. The night elves and blood elves have even less of a connection, and even less of a reason to follow the worship that the ancestors of their ancestors followed.

    Location is sort of impossible to say, there isn't really a good systemic location system for the Old Gods. Presumably he has resurfaced in some regard or another, but hasn't been noticed yet, similar to how Yogg's (direct) corruption is isolated to Northrend, and Y'shaarj's to Pandaria.
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  10. #10
    High Overlord Brutalion's Avatar
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    Wasn't there an old god burried somewhere below Lordaeron? I remember reading rumors about it a while ago.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Trolls were basically the first sentient race, iirc. They were around before the Titans came but also before the Old Gods. They also have amazing regenerative abilities so that surviving is a little easier. If they really do predate the Titans, that makes the Troll race more than 50,000 years old.
    If this is true, how could a race like trolls stand up against old gods of such terrifying nature and their armies? That would mean their magic is much stronger than depicted and how come trolls easily so falls for foes like Heroes? After all, if they could fight in the midst of the war between the elements and the forces of the old gods and survive on a dark world like it was described as before titans came and made 'order'. It would essentially mean their race is far more superior than the makers of World of Warcraft wants to admit.

    But yes, it is a wait and see. But may I ask where you read that made you think that trolls was on azeroth before old gods even? But there is also something else that bothered me when I read the lore.

    C'thun seemingly wasn't worried about the existence of the Farraki trolls in Tanaris. Perhaps tehy were small and such but back shifting war of sands. This would essentially make the one of the enemies unless... They knew the race was actually a servant of old gods and didn't care to remove them from azeroth. And also the fact that Farraki trolls never participated in pushing back the Qiraji as they entered Tanaris.

    We also got the oddity of trolls being the only race that has the proper adaptive genes. Ice trolls have fur that protects them against the cold. Forest trolls has moss that protects them among the forests. Desert trolls have no fur but only skin, dry and sandpaper and makes them survive for a long period of time without water in the steaming heat of Tanaris. Jungle trolls have hide like a horse(Closest I can think) to both keep them warm but also allow them to survive in a jungle with different parasites and bugs. AFter all skinned creatures tends to get easier bitten by bugs and critters in comparison to animals with fur or hide. Cave trolls we haven't really seen but I would imagine their dark purple skin is made to make them easier to hide within teh depths of their caves and come out at night to hunt in the cover of the darkness.

    No other race have shown this great genes to adapt after their terrain of choice. Dwarves have shown some signs but they are all skin creatures and even thought they live in the heat and cold their skin colours seem to not give them any advantage in their terrains.

    And yes, regular trolls can become LOA if they are worshipped. The more worshippers and offering, the clearer their presence become. After all, the loa hierarchy in a troll community are the following; Personal loa -> Family loa(Ancestors usually) -> Tribe loa -> Empire/Faction loa.

    I don't think old gods see them as a threat in comparison to races that are created with the help of arcane like most titan created races and of course the twisted versions of trolls -> night elves, high elves, blood elves, highborne.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutalion View Post
    Wasn't there an old god burried somewhere below Lordaeron? I remember reading rumors about it a while ago.
    I think Blizzard stated it wasn't an Old God but Dave Kosak has recently said that even they basically don't know what it is yet. It's a "hook" for future lore. They've not decided what to do with it yet

    Rarely updated...

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Pisholina's Avatar
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    I don't think Trolls have anything to do with the Old Gods. The Darkspears serve the Loa religiously and making them a part of the Old Gods would also turn Darkspears as the bad guys. Also, in the book Shadows of the Horde, Vol'jin negotiates a life of a Human Warrior from the Loa of Death, which means the Loa listens to their servants, which no Old God ever did to my knowledge.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GuldTasken View Post
    If this is true, how could a race like trolls stand up against old gods of such terrifying nature and their armies? That would mean their magic is much stronger than depicted and how come trolls easily so falls for foes like Heroes? After all, if they could fight in the midst of the war between the elements and the forces of the old gods and survive on a dark world like it was described as before titans came and made 'order'. It would essentially mean their race is far more superior than the makers of World of Warcraft wants to admit.
    Why would you while fighting another Old God waste your time and resources to attack and kill a race you deem pathetic?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brutalion View Post
    Wasn't there an old god burried somewhere below Lordaeron? I remember reading rumors about it a while ago.
    There is something corrupting under Lordaeron but we have no idea what it is. Even Blizzard is still deciding what they want it to be.

    However, I do remember a theory that Hakkar himself is an Old God and that would certainly fit with an Old God army made of Trolls since many of them already worship him.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuldTasken View Post
    If this is true, how could a race like trolls stand up against old gods of such terrifying nature and their armies? That would mean their magic is much stronger than depicted and how come trolls easily so falls for foes like Heroes? After all, if they could fight in the midst of the war between the elements and the forces of the old gods and survive on a dark world like it was described as before titans came and made 'order'. It would essentially mean their race is far more superior than the makers of World of Warcraft wants to admit.

    But yes, it is a wait and see. But may I ask where you read that made you think that trolls was on azeroth before old gods even? But there is also something else that bothered me when I read the lore.

    C'thun seemingly wasn't worried about the existence of the Farraki trolls in Tanaris. Perhaps tehy were small and such but back shifting war of sands. This would essentially make the one of the enemies unless... They knew the race was actually a servant of old gods and didn't care to remove them from azeroth. And also the fact that Farraki trolls never participated in pushing back the Qiraji as they entered Tanaris.

    We also got the oddity of trolls being the only race that has the proper adaptive genes. Ice trolls have fur that protects them against the cold. Forest trolls has moss that protects them among the forests. Desert trolls have no fur but only skin, dry and sandpaper and makes them survive for a long period of time without water in the steaming heat of Tanaris. Jungle trolls have hide like a horse(Closest I can think) to both keep them warm but also allow them to survive in a jungle with different parasites and bugs. AFter all skinned creatures tends to get easier bitten by bugs and critters in comparison to animals with fur or hide. Cave trolls we haven't really seen but I would imagine their dark purple skin is made to make them easier to hide within teh depths of their caves and come out at night to hunt in the cover of the darkness.

    No other race have shown this great genes to adapt after their terrain of choice. Dwarves have shown some signs but they are all skin creatures and even thought they live in the heat and cold their skin colours seem to not give them any advantage in their terrains.

    And yes, regular trolls can become LOA if they are worshipped. The more worshippers and offering, the clearer their presence become. After all, the loa hierarchy in a troll community are the following; Personal loa -> Family loa(Ancestors usually) -> Tribe loa -> Empire/Faction loa.

    I don't think old gods see them as a threat in comparison to races that are created with the help of arcane like most titan created races and of course the twisted versions of trolls -> night elves, high elves, blood elves, highborne.
    All races in the lore are more powerful than they are in the game, just look at Thrall. That's just game-play. You can't have Trolls running around with super regen powers and never dying can you? :P
    Who's to say the early Trolls didn't hide out on a little island while all this madness was going on? There is nothing to say that they actually fought anyone/thing while the Titans and Old Gods were going at it. Here's another lore tidbit though, even the Tauren may predate the Titans. It has both been hinted at and against though so we don't really know.

    I honestly don't remember where I read it, but it was either a blue quote or was in the Warcraft magazine. I think it was the magazine tbh.

    With Trolls being the first race, they had to adapt to survive for this long. They started out as one faction of Trolls and eventually branched out into the world and evolved with their climate/surroundings. Hence why you have the different kinds. You don't survive this long without adapting.

    The Old Gods likely never bothered with the Trolls because the Titans were a much larger threat. As evidenced by them actually winning.

    Rarely updated...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    There is something corrupting under Lordaeron but we have no idea what it is. Even Blizzard is still deciding what they want it to be.

    However, I do remember a theory that Hakkar himself is an Old God and that would certainly fit with an Old God army made of Trolls since many of them already worship him.
    This was a very, very old theory before more was known about Old Gods and the Loa.
    Hakkar is just the Loa of blood, although it is possible that he works with and or serves under N'zoth, due to his role in Eranikus falling to the Emerald Nightmare.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  18. #18
    Might as well mention. When the Qiraji rose to fight the life of existence on Kalimdor, the dragons came to help the night elves.

    But back 16000 years when the trolls fought Aqir, they never got the aid of the dragons.

    Why are the aspect of red, aspect of green and aspect of black not helping the trolls back then? After all, the Aqir wanted to vanquish all life that wasn't of Insectoid nature and was a threat to life, nature and earth. Why where the dragons so eager to help the night elves in comparison to trolls? Is it because trolls are not affliated with arcane or the makers of Titans so they just sit there, hoping the race would fight it self to death with Aqir so they both could be thrown away?

    For what reasons does the dragons have to look down on the troll race in comparison to all other races whom came into existence because of the titans meddling? Because if they were helping the titans back then. Surely the dragons would whom came into existence shortly after know of such and decide to help the race when it is in need?

  19. #19
    the old god who created the trolls. his name: trol'olol
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by GuldTasken View Post
    Might as well mention. When the Qiraji rose to fight the life of existence on Kalimdor, the dragons came to help the night elves.

    But back 16000 years when the trolls fought Aqir, they never got the aid of the dragons.

    Why are the aspect of red, aspect of green and aspect of black not helping the trolls back then? After all, the Aqir wanted to vanquish all life that wasn't of Insectoid nature and was a threat to life, nature and earth. Why where the dragons so eager to help the night elves in comparison to trolls? Is it because trolls are not affliated with arcane or the makers of Titans so they just sit there, hoping the race would fight it self to death with Aqir so they both could be thrown away?

    For what reasons does the dragons have to look down on the troll race in comparison to all other races whom came into existence because of the titans meddling? Because if they were helping the titans back then. Surely the dragons would whom came into existence shortly after know of such and decide to help the race when it is in need?
    Because Trolls are, and have always been, filthy, dark-voodoo worshiping, cannibalistic savages.
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