The fifth, yet unnamed Old god. Creator of trolls?

[Falu]

Maybe...
Since we know Sargeras, was, once upon a time, the titan's mightiest instrument, is it possible, that he arrived to Azeroth before the other titans (centuries, or a millenia) and created the Trolls to fight the armies of the old gods? to set things in motion for the Titan's arrival.
When Sargeras fell, his creations were shunned in the eyes of the titans?
The evidences of their origin swiped under the rug.

[Vyrd]

i like the idea.

tin foil hat speculation time

yogg dominated minds, yshaarj was influential (emotions/shas), nzoth is a corruptor, cthun a warlord (maybe, his massive aqir armies), what could the final one be. perhaps the last old god would represent cunning, or subterfuge. they could have been living in plain sight for thousands of years, and it was dismissed as troll 'voodoo'. hakkar is regarded as the ultimate loa, feared and respected by the zandalari and gurubashi. the amani worship their forest loa, the drakkari have their northern loa, even the darkspear have their loa, bwansamdi (baron samedi). every troll culture has their loa worship. is it ingrained in their genetic markup to worship a primal spirit, an ancient god? what then however, would drive the drakkari to kill their own gods? that was the lich kings doing.

the trolls are widely believed to be the base genetic model for night elves. some trolls were exposed to arcane energy and changed into night elves. however, the same spirit worship trigger existed. the night elves needed new gods to praise. elune, cenarius, and the other ancients. both the loa and the ancients have existed for a very long time, the loa were around before the titans even came to azeroth. there is a troll druid in moonglade who references night elf wisps as loa. even the celestials in pandaria have a loa like quality to them. the leviathan in dragonblight that the tuskarr worshipped fears that the drakkari were sent to kill her, just as they did with their gods.

taken right from wowpedia..

Cenarius' descendants are the keepers of the grove, the magnataur, the centaur, the dryads, and their forest and frost descendants
Something created the pandaren
Ursoc created the furbolg
Agamaggan created the quilboar
Aviana created the harpies

Brann also speculates on the existence of few ancients and their creation of descendant races:

Gorloc and a Frog Ancient
Wolvar and a Badger Ancient
Tauren and a Cow Bull Ancient
Tuskarr and a Walrus Ancient
Aessina might have created the grell (she tells Brann "maybe")
Gnolls and a Hyena Ancient
Makrura and a Lobster Ancient


every culture on azeroth has a primal deity system. the real only exception seems to be 'the light', that paladins, priests and the draenei revere. most likely referring to the naaru light. which brings the question, why did the races of azeroth worship the light long before the draenei arrival. are the naaru already on azeroth?

i think the final old god is more than the creator of trolls. i think it is the progenitor of ALL life on azeroth. the exception are the titan created races, vrykul, dwarves, gnomes, humans by way of vrykul (twisted by yogg's curse of flesh). through manipulation and creating deities, it gains strength and survives. it needs worship to live. it creates manifestations of itself to be worshiped by mortal races; troll loa, night elf ancients, pandaren celestials. it is not a secret that old gods fight one another. this accounts as to why the night elf ancients were so vital to the defeat of nzoth's minions and ragnaros. the pandaren celestials were enemies of the sha. perhaps the final old god is one that all of the other old gods fear. it recognizes that the power of voodoo, worship, and panda zen are far more powerful than any army. the mortal races have been praising this old god for thousands of years and not even realizing it.

[Deleted]

I really like the idea and twist that it could be Elune - or as someone in this thread put E'lune.

What would that mean for us though? im not sure.

[wych]

Isn't there a quest in STV that hints to there being an Old God under STV?

The whole singing blue shards thing and the really old item that you find but can't date/figure out what it is?

Was a year or so ago I did STV on my alt so could be wrong

[Aquamonkey]

Pandas existed before the Mogu came along. The Mogu enslaved them and destroyed their ancient language and culture, pandaren culture of present is just hold overs from MOgu times.

Pandas certainly didn't exist before the Mogu shaped Pandaria and created the Vale of Eternal Blossoms.

[Aquamonkey]

read up on your lore.

...the Pandaren were around during the Titan/Old Gods war? Because that's how far back the Mogu go.

[Aquamonkey]

It's stated, in the game itself, that when the Mogu enslaved the Pandaren they destroyed their unique culture, including their own language, and forced them to speak Mogu, amongst other things. Whatever irrelevant bullshit you want to try and cite as a way around the written story won't change that.

And that happened thousands of years after the Mogu were left without contact with the Titans. Pandaren were ancient by the time the Mogu turned flesh and had their war, but the Pandaren are not older than the Mogu. The Mogu created the very land that the Pandaren developed on...

[Kindahuge]

Well, didn't see anything against reviving old threads, but I decided to throw in my speculation as a new on the thread. Which sums what I ahve been trying to say earlier in the thread;

Now, for my theory. The fifth, still unnamed old god.

The trolls have scriptures and tablets that speak of the titans but under a different name, The wanderers/travellers. This was the first indication that the troll had witnessed the living titans but also that they as a race was the oldest on Azeroth which explains how they came to control most of Ancient Kalimdor with such ease in comparison to other races that might have lived back then.



Aqir and Trolls were explained in the lore as enemies, ancient enemies which had deep hatred for one another. Perhaps because the Aqir wanted to kill anything that wasn't insect looking but taking into account that Aqir was a prospering insect territory that can easily hatch many, many new children, warriors and then take into account that trolls whom controlled most of Ancient Kalimdor still sacrificed which kept their population growth somewhat in a halt. This would mean that Aqir would of had an overwhelming advantage in numbers when the twin empires united to fight the common foe. But the Aqir was pushed back, the reason in my opinion that trolls could get such land control so fast and of course being able to conduct a war that would make Aqir break was because they had probably fought Aqir before that point, back during the Chaos.

The time of Chaos was when the elemental lords, the old gods walked the earth of Azeroth and the lore indicates that every race, both spiritual and elemental that lived back during this time was a servant of either one or the other old god and part of their army. If they(The old gods), saw themselves as allies. They would not need to bolster such armies and create new races, like Faceless ones. This means that trolls were most likely a servant of one or the other old god. I want to refer the trolls old god so far as the Fifth, yet unnamed one.

The reason being that when C'thun broke through his prison to influence the land, he took contact with the ancient Aqir or well the remnants of it. Where he transformed the hive mind dumb Silithids into intellectual beings of Qiraji. Surely an old god like C'thun would know how the trolls broke Aqir's empire apart? Why did he not instead reach for the Trolls of farrakki. A race that dabbles with necromancy and believes in dark LOA and is quite 'evil' in society to other races? The reason might be because C'thun knew that they were enemies of the perhaps him back in the day. It doesn't explain otherwise how a old god that can easily manipulate trolls by making them believe him as a loa, wouldn't do such. Doesn't make sense after all.



Another reason is Yogg-saron in northrend that could of easily directed his influence over the drakkari tribe before it fell to the scourge. For the same reason, he could of easily contacted them, make them believe him as a loa and he could grant them 'boons'. Yet, this old god refrained from it as well. After all, the fact that Drakkari had a city so big as Zul'Drak meant they were a superior force to be reckoned with in Northrend and with his influence, they could of easily been able to dominate even the scourge once the time came to passing.

So, why did these two old gods not go so far as reaching out to the trolls? Conclusion, the trolls whom believe in LOA and gods that can walk the earth of azeroth doesn't and didn't serve any of the four known old gods and therefore wouldn't allow themselves to fall so easily into the drink of power granted by these old gods. That is because the still unnamed old god is the one true Loa and god they would kneel to once he came to surface. That is my theory at least.

Because, it doesn't explain how two or three old gods with great power wouldn't contact and manipulate a race as trolls that would be considered the far easiest race for old gods to manipulate as loa. It simply doesn't make sense. Why would they go through the hassle of transforming dumb Silithids, corrupt the mind of titan guardians and one dragon with their whispers but ignore the trolls whom clearly could of been manipulated far easier and transformed and become a force to be reckoned with? Hell, even unite the silithids and Trolls down in southern Kalimdor. Or Drakkari with the guardians in Northrend. Perhaps the reason being, the fifth old god whom is the reason trolls got regeneration, connection to realms of magic that other races can't gain access too and more importantly, much as a regeneration boon. The old god, yet unnamed old god have granted the race of trolls immunity toward the corruptive whisper of the other four old gods.

That old god has yet to surface, why wouldn't he surface considering how weak azeroth is? Considering he has yet make a move and has probably breached his prison by now. Yet, no guardians, other titan races, dragons among other races felt any events puppeteer by him. Hell, he didn't even surface during the time when N'zoth, C'thun, Yogg-saron together manipulated the black dragonflight. IT is too many question marks in the old gods decision making and for being a race of so high intellect and power. They should of be able to see the true worth they can raise trolls too with a bit of their magic.

That is my final speculation at least. I would love to throw this in the Dave Kosak's direction but I have no idea how to reach out to him or make him notice and respond to my speculation :P

How in God's name do you post something this massive without the tiniest glimmer of a TL;DR? Common courtesy, broseph.

[Aquamonkey]

You say initially that the pandaren didn't exist before the Mogu shaped Pandaria, now you try to yield and imply they are the same age? Pandaren have been around at least as long as the mogu, which makes your initial statement, inaccurate, which it is.

Reading comprehension fail... I never implied they are the same age... Mogu turning flesh and enslaving the Pandaren happened thousands of years after the Titans stopped contacting them. Just because the Pandaren culture was ancient by that time doesn't mean they are the same age.

FFS, the Mogu created the very land that the Pandaren developed on.

[Aquamonkey]

no comprehension fail, perhaps you just fail with words or lack the ability to understand what an implication was. I'll provide you your own fucking words.

When you say "certainly didn't exist before ______" the inference is "it's at best, as old as". Comprehension fail falls on you, unable to comprehend the shit you write (and subsequently refute)

And your argument was that the Pandaren were around before the Mogu... The fact that Mogu shaped Pandaria completely disproves your assertion. It has nothing to do with implying that they are "at best, as old as," which they aren't.

The Mogu having shaped the very land that the Pandaren arose on clearly makes the Mogu older. So IDK WTF your getting that I implied that they are the same age. It's like you're trying to argue that "the baby certainly didn't exist before the construction workers built the hospital it was born in" somehow means that baby is the same age as the construction workers...

[GennGreymane]

Fatal flaw: Tauren.

Bull ancient according to Brann Brozebeard

[NotFunny008]

That's what we needed, a Troll Old God. Troll lore really needs a looong rest. Or a final push where the race is exterminated and no one hears about them again. I can live with both.

Yes, take the night elves with them too.

[Aquamonkey]

I'm not making an argument Im countering your bullshit.

Pandas existed before the Mogu came along.

Which is wrong.

No, it doesn't. Lmao 1+1 = 11 according to you.

By your reasoning, the Pandaren are older than the land they arose from and older than those who formed that land...

Quoted from you: "And that happened thousands of years after the Mogu were left without contact with the Titans. Pandaren were ancient by the time the Mogu turned flesh and had their war. So what will it be, contemporary, or not as old, or older? You're all over the place. Slow down, breathe, think, then type.

For some reason you believe "thousands of years" and "ancient" mean exactly the same age... Besides, the Mogu existed for a long time hunting Y'Shaarj and shaping Pandaria before that era of thousands of years without Titan contact.

no, it's not. Not even close. You must be "thinking" this. I am saying that the Pandaren and Mogu are contemporaries. You are going all over the place trying to pretend you are a canon source with the bullshit you type here. I was nice removing your bullshit from ignore but now I remember why.

Aquamonkey, you are wrong, you don't know what you are talking about, you rarely have ever made sense, and even your arguments are entirely with yourself. Get some fresh air.

You're the one all over the place. Now you say they are contemporaries... You had previously said that the Pandaren predate the Mogu.

[Synros]

Then we find out Jesus Thrall was an Old God all along!....

[Gothicshark]

the most irrelevant bit of information you can possibly come up with. Jinyu use a night elf model, does that mean they are related to night elves as well? Other monsters and creatures use a skeleton from existing races, as a time saver, not some hint at origin...

- - - Updated - - -

Pandas existed before the Mogu came along. The Mogu enslaved them and destroyed their ancient language and culture, pandaren culture of present is just hold overs from MOgu times.

True, the thing is with the Jinyu they are a complete reskin and they do not look like Night Elves. Qiraji look like Night Elves with added insects parts. They are not even subtly differant, it looks more like Qiraji are night elves wearing bug bits.

And to make things clear that back then the Blizzard Dev team used skeletons from player races to make many of the other races, to include early Goblins were a skin over the Dwarf skeleton. No one has ever though that Goblins and Dwarves were related, because the re-skin job made goblins look like Goblins.

The Jinyu do not look like Night Elves, the Goblins do not look like Dwarves, but the Qiraji look like Night Elves.

I don't even know why I'm arguing this since as I said there are three plausible theories for the Origin of Trolls, Night Elves, and Goblins. the AQ theory is not even my favorite one, but it needs to be pointed out because it is just as plausible as any other.

Also many of the 'Lore' statements you have said to be true do not come from the game.

Trolls were not around before the Titans, that is a misunderstanding of what is said.

Azeroth was made by the Titans, however when the Titans finally settled on Azeroth they found that corruption had settled Azeroth. ie the Old Gods.

We have no idea what the time scale if and have very few bits of dialog in game. What is clear ALL player races are descended from Titan Creations. Which means Trolls do not Predate Titans, and if there is a link to Qiraji and Night Elves, it is possible that the Qiraji are a corruption of Night Elves. After all 2k years ago when the AQ first attacked, that land was Night Elf Territory, and the bugs over ran several night elf communities. ie the Twins might be former Night Elves.

Major clues that the Titans made all player Races:

Elegon- Touch of the Titans- Contact with the Energy Vortex transforms the target into celestial form, increasing all damage done by 50% and healing done by 50%. Pets get the bonus but are not transformed. .
Paragons of the Klaxxi - "Come, children of the Titans, you face the Paragons."


this picture is a big clue.
From Ulduar in an area showing various creations of the Titans.



- - - Updated - - -

It's stated, in the game itself, that when the Mogu enslaved the Pandaren they destroyed their unique culture, including their own language, and forced them to speak Mogu, amongst other things. Whatever irrelevant bullshit you want to try and cite as a way around the written story won't change that.

It also implies that the Mogu Modified what they were, much like the other races they enslaved, Blizzard has hinted that Pandaren started out as Furbolg.

- - - Updated - - -

You say initially that the pandaren didn't exist before the Mogu shaped Pandaria, now you try to yield and imply they are the same age? Pandaren have been around at least as long as the mogu, which makes your initial statement, inaccurate, which it is.

You both have a piece of the truth and fail to acknowledge that the lore is actually complex.

Pandaren were reshaped into slaves by the Mogu, because the Mogu reshaped all 'inferior races' to make them better servants.

So in this the Pandaren as we know them today are created by the Mogu.

However the race that became the Pandaren existed long before the reshaping of Pandaria, long before the Mogu Empire. It has been said by Dev team members that they use to be Furbolg, which are very similar to Pandaren only they are very primitive. Although they do like Beer. Ironic that back in Vanilla Furbolg had Beer, and now Pandaren are great Brewmasters.

[Shink]

it would be a nice twist if the final old god is someone that was right beside us the whole time, someone who is involved with the horde & alliance



(Yes, *Star wars*, it still would be fairly interesting to see that storyline done here) Malfurion would be a nice fit~

[Gothicshark]

How in God's name do you post something this massive without the tiniest glimmer of a TL;DR? Common courtesy, broseph.

How in Gods name can you be so lazy as to need a TL;DR and think it is required.

[Golden Yak]

The Jinyu do not look like Night Elves, the Goblins do not look like Dwarves, but the Qiraji look like Night Elves.

Don't see it myself. Yeah, the bug princes use the night elf animation set, because for whatever reason they made the qiraji rulers more humanoid than the other qiraji males like the gladiators or the casters. But beyond being roughly the same shape so they can use the same animation skeleton, they look nothing like night elves - segmented limbs, different facial structure (they have a mass of mandibles instead of humanoid features)... plus, they're gigantic. Too much of a reach.

The last of the lore on the subject indicated that trolls, aqir, and faceless ones predated the Titans arrival, but there's no indication that the trolls are related at all to the aqir.

[apepi]

What is clear ALL player races are descended from Titan Creations. Which means Trolls do not Predate Titans, and if there is a link to Qiraji and Night Elves, it is possible that the Qiraji are a corruption of Night Elves. After all 2k years ago when the AQ first attacked, that land was Night Elf Territory, and the bugs over ran several night elf communities. ie the Twins might be former Night Elves.

False. Taurens come from a certain bull ancient, which I theorize as Niuzao.

[Ahhdurr]

False. Taurens come from a certain bull ancient, which I theorize as Niuzao.

Some kodo Demi-god seems more likely.