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  1. #501
    What some people seem to be forgetting is the fact that the whole thime Garrosh was insisting to uphold the code of honor during is war against the Alliance to secure Horde/Orcisch superiority.

    Stonetalon? The General got executed for bombing out young nightelfen children/teenagers.
    MoP? Telling Ishi during the Lion's Landing-scenario that murdering the enemy in their slumper is honorless.
    Orgrimmar? Gutting Warlocks and hanging them for being users of forbidden magic.

    But it's suddenly okay to slaughter innocent children and unarmed, caged civilians and put them on spikes?

    That back and forth is the problem, not the scenery itself. Either let him deveolpe that path down or don't instead of going rollercoaster with your character.
    He can't be the honorfull Orc that wants the Alliance defeated and a MUAHAHA-Maniac-Evilguy at the same time, that's what is bugging me the most.
    Blizzard should have stuck to one archetype and went down that path, instead of all that inconsistenties during the story.

  2. #502
    This is my headcanon about Garrosh.

    I think at some point in his development (being more and more "corrupted" by Pride), Garrosh probably thought to himself:

    "You know what? Screw honor! I don't have to be a slave to it anymore! I am above and beyond honor! I can do whatever damn thing I want, because I'm the WarChief, and anyone who says otherwise can be impaled!"

  3. #503
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    I doubt this is canon, it seems like flavour text and if it is canon then ill just stop taking WoWs lore seriously. Its fucking shit now, Garrosh is just a roller coaster of hypocrisy, I didnt want to kill him beforehand, but now I want to kill him so his damn story can just end already.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Krek01 View Post
    This is my headcanon about Garrosh.

    I think at some point in his development (being more and more "corrupted" by Pride), Garrosh probably thought to himself:

    "You know what? Screw honor! I don't have to be a slave to it anymore! I am above and beyond honor! I can do whatever damn thing I want, because I'm the WarChief, and anyone who says otherwise can be impaled!"
    And soon after that, he time traveled back to siege of Theramore and kidnapped its citizens?
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by SeeRay View Post
    What some people seem to be forgetting is the fact that the whole thime Garrosh was insisting to uphold the code of honor during is war against the Alliance to secure Horde/Orcisch superiority.

    Stonetalon? The General got executed for bombing out young nightelfen children/teenagers.
    MoP? Telling Ishi during the Lion's Landing-scenario that murdering the enemy in their slumper is honorless.
    Orgrimmar? Gutting Warlocks and hanging them for being users of forbidden magic.

    But it's suddenly okay to slaughter innocent children and unarmed, caged civilians and put them on spikes?

    That back and forth is the problem, not the scenery itself. Either let him deveolpe that path down or don't instead of going rollercoaster with your character.
    He can't be the honorfull Orc that wants the Alliance defeated and a MUAHAHA-Maniac-Evilguy at the same time, that's what is bugging me the most.
    Blizzard should have stuck to one archetype and went down that path, instead of all that inconsistenties during the story.
    Why it has always be about "inconsistency"? Why can't a character, being pushed over and over again by defeats, snap and start doing all of this?

    It's even written on the novels, he went from just wanting Ashenvale for resources to push the Night Elves from Kalimdor to conquer Azeroth from the lesser races. He is a sociopath with extreme power that keeps failing on his goal.

    Blizz did stuck to one archtype, the path of a sociopath with daddy issues that was given power without lesson. He parroted Saurfang's words rarely, but at the same time acted the exact opposite (the Alliance sailors massacre near Northrend comes to mind).
    Last edited by Tauror; 2013-09-01 at 03:59 PM.

  6. #506
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    So just to clarify... after Garrosh is dead, the Alliance leaves the Horde to rebuild themselves.

    Correct?

    Am I right?

    The Alliance and the Horde are enemies. They are in a war against each other, and according to Blizzard they "conquer the enemy city and kill their leader" and then they leave?

    Why?

    Why would they let the greatest threat to their livelihood survive and rebuild?

    Blizzard's storytelling in the past has been shoddy at best, but wow. This takes the biscuit, my friends.

    I could understand if the High King left some troops behind in Orgrimmar much like the Allies did in Germany, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Garrosh dies, Ogrimmar is conquered and then given right back to Vol'jin, Thrall, Baine, Sylvanas, Lor'themar and the rest.

    And I think I'm right in assuming they'll choose a new leader from amongst themselves and rebuild and then... continue their war against the Alliance.

    Nice job, Blizzard. That's pretty impressive.


    ----------


    BTW I play Horde. But I don't really prefer one side or the other. I just want to see things happen. War is about change. Battles are won and lost. Leaders are killed and new ones come to take their place. Land is gained, lost and regained. This war between the Horde and the Alliance has always been shallow, but its stuff like this that just totally kills the immersion.
    Last edited by Kilperch; 2013-09-01 at 04:07 PM.

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    And soon after that, he time traveled back to siege of Theramore and kidnapped its citizens?
    It does sound dumb if that happened.

    But perhaps after Garrosh dumped Y'Shaarj's heart into the Vale, he decided to go all out and ordered his Kor'Kron to kidnap all of the Theramore survivors still in Gadetzan or wherever.

  8. #508
    Brewmaster Rhaide's Avatar
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    I'm 100% pro-horde, but garrosh is, and has always been a dickburger.
    "When you do things right, people won't be sure you have done anything at all."

    -God (Futurama)

  9. #509
    They might as well made it more gruesome, like close towards the end of the raid you see all the children hurdled up before they goop them with sha stuff and they melt becoming some sort immersius v2 with screams and sobbing crying for their parents.

    Might as well turn them into weapons at that rate

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiematico View Post
    They might as well made it more gruesome, like close towards the end of the raid you see all the children hurdled up before they goop them with sha stuff and they melt becoming some sort immersius v2 with screams and sobbing crying for their parents.

    Might as well turn them into weapons at that rate
    Why stop there, why not melt them and use their biomass to clone hitler.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  11. #511
    Legendary! Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Why stop there, why not melt them and use their biomass to clone hitler.
    Even better, steal ME2 ending and use biomass to create HITLER REAPER !!! WITH 3 EYES !!!!

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilperch View Post
    So just to clarify... after Garrosh is dead, the Alliance leaves the Horde to rebuild themselves.

    Correct?

    Am I right?

    The Alliance and the Horde are enemies. They are in a war against each other, and according to Blizzard they "conquer the enemy city and kill their leader" and then they leave?

    Why?

    Why would they let the greatest threat to their livelihood survive and rebuild?

    Blizzard's storytelling in the past has been shoddy at best, but wow. This takes the biscuit, my friends.

    I could understand if the High King left some troops behind in Orgrimmar much like the Allies did in Germany, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Garrosh dies, Ogrimmar is conquered and then given right back to Vol'jin, Thrall, Baine, Sylvanas, Lor'themar and the rest.

    And I think I'm right in assuming they'll choose a new leader from amongst themselves and rebuild and then... continue their war against the Alliance.

    Nice job, Blizzard. That's pretty impressive.


    ----------


    BTW I play Horde. But I don't really prefer one side or the other. I just want to see things happen. War is about change. Battles are won and lost. Leaders are killed and new ones come to take their place. Land is gained, lost and regained. This war between the Horde and the Alliance has always been shallow, but its stuff like this that just totally kills the immersion.
    How about let's chill out for another week and a half and see what the actual ending is.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  13. #513
    Is he a monster, though?

    Maybe he was trying to save the children from GETTING NUKED!

    Maybe he intended to raise the children within the Horde so that the next generation of humans wouldn't be so hostile to the Horde and orc kids could be familiar with humans. This would break the cycle of hate and start a new generation of tolerant orcs and humans.

  14. #514
    Stood in the Fire Kreghar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    Is he a monster, though?

    Maybe he was trying to save the children from GETTING NUKED!

    Maybe he intended to raise the children within the Horde so that the next generation of humans wouldn't be so hostile to the Horde and orc kids could be familiar with humans. This would break the cycle of hate and start a new generation of tolerant orcs and humans.
    So nice of Garrosh to do that! Altought I still think he should start with not impaling their relatives across Orgrimmar to make those kids Horde-buddies.

    lol

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilperch View Post
    So just to clarify... after Garrosh is dead, the Alliance leaves the Horde to rebuild themselves.

    Correct?

    Am I right?

    The Alliance and the Horde are enemies. They are in a war against each other, and according to Blizzard they "conquer the enemy city and kill their leader" and then they leave?

    Why?

    Why would they let the greatest threat to their livelihood survive and rebuild?

    Blizzard's storytelling in the past has been shoddy at best, but wow. This takes the biscuit, my friends.

    I could understand if the High King left some troops behind in Orgrimmar much like the Allies did in Germany, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Garrosh dies, Ogrimmar is conquered and then given right back to Vol'jin, Thrall, Baine, Sylvanas, Lor'themar and the rest.

    And I think I'm right in assuming they'll choose a new leader from amongst themselves and rebuild and then... continue their war against the Alliance.

    Nice job, Blizzard. That's pretty impressive.


    ----------


    BTW I play Horde. But I don't really prefer one side or the other. I just want to see things happen. War is about change. Battles are won and lost. Leaders are killed and new ones come to take their place. Land is gained, lost and regained. This war between the Horde and the Alliance has always been shallow, but its stuff like this that just totally kills the immersion.
    They can't do much more than that or you screw over the horde player base. Apparantly there will be some form of compensation from the horde to the alliance. How this is implemented I do not know. But for gameplay reasons no they can't do anything other than siege it and give it back afterwards.

  16. #516
    BTW I play Horde. But I don't really prefer one side or the other. I just want to see things happen. War is about change. Battles are won and lost. Leaders are killed and new ones come to take their place. Land is gained, lost and regained. This war between the Horde and the Alliance has always been shallow, but its stuff like this that just totally kills the immersion.
    Yes, but the Alliance crushing the Horde and more or less finishing them off would also kill the immersion for a lot of Horde players, if we spent the next entire expac rebuilding the entire Horde.

    In reality, the Alliance would probably burn Org to the ground, but this is a game and to keep it going there are going to be holes like this. If Org was destroyed by the Alliance, there'd be a lot of people who would be upset at losing the biggest Horde city. It would've been like if Garrosh had gone to nuke Stormwind instead of Theramore. Maybe it would've made more sense from a tactical "we're at war" perspective but you also would've lost a lot of subs in the process of destroying the Alliance main base.

  17. #517
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Cookiematico, Verdugo, Arrashi. the fact your all having a conversation about how to mutilate and eviscerate children is.. well, its pretty messed up. And not in a funny messed up way.

  18. #518
    It's a delicate balance. If the Alliance just kills Garrosh and peaces out with nothing else, it'll piss off Alliance players. But they can't destroy the Horde or do TOO much or else it'll alienate horde players. I think the best balance is to make it clear the Alliance is taking back its lands in Ashenvale and Gilneas, even if the zones aren't brought up to date in the game itself.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  19. #519
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    It's a delicate balance. If the Alliance just kills Garrosh and peaces out with nothing else, it'll piss off Alliance players. But they can't destroy the Horde or do TOO much or else it'll alienate horde players. I think the best balance is to make it clear the Alliance is taking back its lands in Ashenvale and Gilneas, even if the zones aren't brought up to date in the game itself.
    only if the horde gets to kick out the alliance from its lands, the barrens, durotar, mulgore and tirisfal.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    only if the horde gets to kick out the alliance from its lands, the barrens, durotar, mulgore and tirisfal.
    When the Horde manages to sack Stormwind and is in a position to make those demands, sure.

    In Barrens, Fort Triumph was destroyed in Tides of War, in Durotar don't you clear them out at Tiragarde keep through questing? Are there alliance in Mulgore still I thought the gate kept them out? And what alliance in Tirisfal?

    If the Horde is truly in a weakened state due to the civil war and the Alliance is united and strong, and in a position where Varian could have chosen to keep pushing the Horde and eventually subjugate it, or at least have a good chance at doing so according to Wrathion, it makes NO sense for them to not reclaim the homelands of the night elves and gilneans fully. I'm not arguing for the destruction of the horde or anything, only for the Alliance to actually take back its peoples homelands. I don't even care about Stonetalon.
    Last edited by Malzra; 2013-09-01 at 07:04 PM.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

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