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  1. #521
    every leader takes actions that results in the death of children. you'd have to oppose all leaders if that's your reasoning.

  2. #522
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Somebody think of the children!
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week we discuss the Warlords of Draenor launch night and a butcher that goes insane

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Cookiematico, Verdugo, Arrashi. the fact your all having a conversation about how to mutilate and eviscerate children is.. well, its pretty messed up. And not in a funny messed up way.
    Nah, we are just guessing what would Garrosh do next.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  4. #524
    As a horde player I say let the ally have org. I'll afk else where

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    if Garrosh did take child prisoners from Theramore, that makes his crimes so much worse.

    It shines a new light on him IMHO. It's irredeemable, there is no chance for redemption before the end.
    IMHO most civilizations that had the "technology" (you know swords and shit forget that spell/goblin/gnome crap) that Azeroth had did just about the same things. They took children as slaves. They sacrificed children. Young children were taught to kill enemies.

    The only thing that keeps this from being a normal in wow is an ESRB rating.

  6. #526
    Why do people asume took = take hostage? Take can be used as killed.


    He took my wife.
    He killed my wife. Murdered.

    >:I

  7. #527
    Garrosh is a fucking lad.

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Cookiematico, Verdugo, Arrashi. the fact your all having a conversation about how to mutilate and eviscerate children is.. well, its pretty messed up. And not in a funny messed up way.
    I'm sure you realized by now that in my case its a suggestion how to portray Garrosh further into villainy. In WoW players have committed acts of murder, genocide, torture and killing the parents of wolvar pups in quests, people are becoming more apathetic to such things of what Garrosh did. So instead to make him just like a loot pinata that got pushed out by lore/design reasons, make him do acts no normal sane person would do, acts that would make normal player cringe from just looking at it and truly want Garrosh to be disposed of even on HORDE side. Seeing those Theramore civilians as horde you would feel no empathy to them; they were the enemy, the ones the player helped into Garrosh hands. But if you show those players of acts that (hopefully all) players would unquestionably label as evil and not to wish it even upon their enemies, that would have a greater impact on them to want to see the Warchief dead instead of faction motives.

    It is distasteful what I wrote but it riled out the reaction out of you that I wish to see from players when they engage the Warchief. For someone to be a truly a person everyone can go against, he must have acted atrocities that would hit every player in their hearts. Not for faction pride, lewt or vengeance, but for shear vindication to set things right. Oh and labeling people without asking their thoughts behind that what they wrote, maybe ask them next time before being too quick with judgment....unless people don't think deeper nowadays and need to have everything spelled out.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Blizzard is really trying to hard to make us hate and kill Garrosh....
    Exact same problem they had with Arthas; they couldn't stop people from relating to him, and so they had to go to absolutely laughable lengths to try and make him seem "irredeemable", to the point it actually ruined the climax of Christie Golden's book "Rise of the Lich King". They've given Garrosh a lot more personality in these past two expansions, to a point that people can actually kind of get behind him as a character, and for some reason, Blizzard seems to think that's a bad idea.

    They may have *planned* to kill Garrosh, but honestly, they need to wake up and realize that, against all odds, they've actually created a memorable character. They basically killed off their "Mickey Mouse" when they allowed Arthas to die; they really need to consider allowing Garrosh to survive, and continue his story.

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Exact same problem they had with Arthas; they couldn't stop people from relating to him, and so they had to go to absolutely laughable lengths to try and make him seem "irredeemable", to the point it actually ruined the climax of Christie Golden's book "Rise of the Lich King". They've given Garrosh a lot more personality in these past two expansions, to a point that people can actually kind of get behind him as a character, and for some reason, Blizzard seems to think that's a bad idea.

    They may have *planned* to kill Garrosh, but honestly, they need to wake up and realize that, against all odds, they've actually created a memorable character. They basically killed off their "Mickey Mouse" when they allowed Arthas to die; they really need to consider allowing Garrosh to survive, and continue his story.
    Even before 5.4 he's done too much to go back, his only future is as a villain.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Even before 5.4 he's done too much to go back, his only future is as a villain.
    I respectfully disagree. He would never be considered a "hero", but I see no reason he couldn't tread a more neutral line. His story is largely one of a victim of circumstances; the Siege of Orgrimmar could be the pivotal turning-point in his character, in which he is ultimately humbled.

    I'm just saying that, in terms of the overall narrative... did he actually serve any purpose? He was introduced, had an elaborate rise to power, and then succumbs to the exact same fate as Grom -- with the exception that he wouldn't have a "moment of redemption". That's the reason I hope he lives, so that all that build-up of his character actually has some kind of lasting impact on the story, not just to justify a new loot-pinata.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I respectfully disagree. He would never be considered a "hero", but I see no reason he couldn't tread a more neutral line. His story is largely one of a victim of circumstances; the Siege of Orgrimmar could be the pivotal turning-point in his character, in which he is ultimately humbled.

    I'm just saying that, in terms of the overall narrative... did he actually serve any purpose? He was introduced, had an elaborate rise to power, and then succumbs to the exact same fate as Grom -- with the exception that he wouldn't have a "moment of redemption". That's the reason I hope he lives, so that all that build-up of his character actually has some kind of lasting impact on the story, not just to justify a new loot-pinata.
    How do you think the lore would have proceeded if instead of jumping off the slippery slope with the destruction of Theramore, Garrosh merely captures and occupies Theramore, kicking out all Alliance on the isle, and renames it "Garromore" or something to stroke his ego?

    I mean, I'm all for a good villain (Lei Shen, anyone?), but Garrosh now seems to be a bit too cartoonish. I would have liked to have seen a more morally-ambiguous Garrosh who struggles with doing the right thing without being totally unpleasant about it.

  13. #533
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Am i the only one that has been expecting something like this all along?
    Or did you really think the evil Garrosh would've been ok with bombing a city without taking prisoners?

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Krek01 View Post
    How do you think the lore would have proceeded if instead of jumping off the slippery slope with the destruction of Theramore, Garrosh merely captures and occupies Theramore, kicking out all Alliance on the isle, and renames it "Garromore" or something to stroke his ego?

    I mean, I'm all for a good villain (Lei Shen, anyone?), but Garrosh now seems to be a bit too cartoonish. I would have liked to have seen a more morally-ambiguous Garrosh who struggles with doing the right thing without being totally unpleasant about it.
    Yeah, they've definitely gone very "Saturday-morning cartoon villain" with him lately, but it's nothing some solid writing couldn't fix; just put Christie Golden on the case!

    I also agree that Garrosh has a lot of potential to be a deeper character, which is where I would like to see them take his character. Have him "free" of the Sha of Pride, exiled back to Outland, and have him really come to terms with his actions. Personally, I would've really dug seeing a book around him, struggling with his own insecurities while still trying to maintain a code of honor. Like I said, it seems unlikely now, but I certainly don't think it's too late. I mean, it's too late to see any of that story added to 5.4, but I should think they could just take him down to 1% health after the fight, and have the Racial-Leaders force him to stand trial for his actions.

  15. #535
    Pit Lord Sett's Avatar
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    So. If they've had those civilians captured for months... That isn't just Garrosh being a jackass.


    Was Jaina not aware of these ships being captured?
    Quote Originally Posted by r03dz View Post
    Also, Jaina and Vereesa going for a rid on their skeleton horses. :P (typo intended)
    Let's look fabulous~. A Paladin transmogrifier item list.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Sett View Post
    Was Jaina not aware of these ships being captured?
    Because no one in the Alliance seemed to miss ships full of children and civillians.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  17. #537
    I am Murloc! Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krek01 View Post
    How do you think the lore would have proceeded if instead of jumping off the slippery slope with the destruction of Theramore, Garrosh merely captures and occupies Theramore, kicking out all Alliance on the isle, and renames it "Garromore" or something to stroke his ego?

    I mean, I'm all for a good villain (Lei Shen, anyone?), but Garrosh now seems to be a bit too cartoonish. I would have liked to have seen a more morally-ambiguous Garrosh who struggles with doing the right thing without being totally unpleasant about it.
    Wait lei shen is a good villain ? I mean this guy did absolutely nothing. He was corpse first and then he took adventurers in the knee. I guess that he also empowered troll that was killed in 1v1 by some nameless scrub.

    Also trassk you forgot about flaying them alive, as well as forcing them to watch disney channel. Only sickest of men can force kids to watch disney channel.
    Last edited by Arrashi; 2013-09-01 at 11:08 PM.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Wait lei shen is a good villain ? I mean this guy did absolutely nothing. He was corpse first and then he took adventurers in the knee. I guess that he also empowered troll that was killed in 1v1 by some nameless scrub.

    Also trassk you forgot about flaying them alive, as well as forcing them to watch disney channel. Only sickest of men can force kids to watch disney channel.
    Lei Shen had an interesting backstory, but blizz really dropped the ball by not having him do anything impressive after his ressurection besides sit in his little fortress island. Him showing up and wrecking things in 5.1 would have been a good lead in.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  19. #539
    Herald of the Titans Mighty Blue Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Seriously? That's a little sadistic. Seriously man. I mean...I can be sadistic when I write but...I don't believe I can cross that line.
    Well he IS supposed to be evil now.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverrendy View Post
    Why do people asume took = take hostage? Take can be used as killed.


    He took my wife.
    He killed my wife. Murdered.

    >:I
    I was thinking this as well. But either way makes no difference to me. They are his enemies, and he can do as he pleases with them.

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