Garrosh took child prisoners from Theramore

[delus]

Why do I need to repeat myself? Having a zone flip to the Horde's STORY in that zone doesn't mean the Horde, by default, has to wreck the Alliance in every single one. The Alliance has storylines (Andorhal is a good one) where we just completely lose and leave. Westfall is another one (Since I already know you were going to say "B-b-but Andorhal was in a neutral zone!").

What don't you get about this? People don't care the zones flipped. At least most don't. They care that the Horde shit all over the Alliance in every single one.

You can hide behind that excuse if you want, but that doesn't make it right.

They could have left Hillsbrad getting wiped out by a tsunami but nope.

[McNeil]

[Aquamonkey]

They've more or less admitted through tweets that the Alliance will not be getting back any of the territories the Horde have stolen because they don't feel like going back and updating them, and they think saying "Alliance has this in lore even though it's still contested ingame" is boring (While it is, I would say it's better than the alternative of the Alliance not getting anything at all, but apparently Blizz disagrees).

Obviously the Alliance cannot capture or destroy Orgrimmar for gameplay reasons.

Even Garrosh himself is fought with Thrall, and so will likely be killed by Thrall. Maybe Vol'jin for the black heart/Yshaarj's heart connection, but that's not any better for us.

Really, what's left for the Alliance to gain from Siege?

Will the other leaders give Varian flak for going over their heads in the letting the horde go with no reparations made from them
Just because we don't take ten minutes to show negotiations doesn't mean there's no reparations. (Source)

Will the Alliance receive compensation lore wise (Doesnt have to be in game) after SoO?
They just conquered their enemy's capital. What compensation are you looking for? (Source)
Like making the Horde back out of Gilneas and Ashenvale?
I'm a gameplay designer. So what gameplay is there in losing leveling zones for Horde? (Source)
If Alliance players had some interesting way to spend time there, that would be different. (Source)
Do Allies gain NOTHING from this war except tens of 1000s dead and their lands stolen? Not even in lore? Goblins keep Azshara
Garrosh is the real problem, not the trolls and goblins. (Source)
Lore-wise we could say that zones changed hands but wouldn't it be lame once you visited them and saw that was not the case? (Source)
It's always a challenge doing a lot of work just for lore reasons unless it comes with awesome gameplay too. (Source)
Quest blurb "We of the Horde agree to withdraw all forces from Azshara...." is not a lot of work.
But they wouldn't actually do that unless we rebuilt the zone. Can't you argue that is lame as well? (Source)
stop saying u lose a leveling zone when u can phase for hight levels like u do on Theramor
Okay, so you're asking for Ashenvale to be phased at higher level to reinforce Alliance winning back some land? (Source)
I agree, progressive phasing would help keep the world large and alive. The world shrinks as zones become irrelevant.
That provides gameplay though. That's a different argument IMO from Alliance get Ashenvale just for a sense of victory. (Source)
Example of game mechanics needing to trump in-universe logic. AvH always going to be central theme, says Metzen.
The story is always going to serve the needs of the game, not the other way around. We understand that doesn't sit well with all. (Source)
conquered a city but after the raid it will be a horde city again, Theramore is still a hole in the ground
If this was a single player or non-persistent game, we'd consider removing one faction's capital permanently. (Source)
It would be nice to know what we worked towards somthing in MoP, deposed one Horde Warmonger for another not cool.
H and A competed over the newly rediscovered continent. It ended up coming at a huge cost though. (Source)
So what was the reason for giving the horde Darkshore, South Shore and allowing them to nuke Theramore?
Those were all motivated by tryingnto provide an interesting leveling / scenario experience. (Source)
Many of these concerns seem motivated by issues like fairness or justice. We're just trying to make playing WoW interesting. (Source)

wrong attitude to have. Like saying last of us shouldn't have story, cause its a game.
There are studios that believe in story first or world first or maybe social first. Blizzard is gameplay first. (Source)

Was stunned that you broke the timeline in Cata and shrugged it off. Lore (& community) should be top, not bottom priority.
Lore is important. A fun expansion is more important. (Source)

[Tyrathius]

They could have left Hillsbrad getting wiped out by a tsunami but nope.

Or better yet, they could have not shipped the Worgen off to Darnassus at level 10, and featured Silverpine/Hillsbrad as an alternative leveling path for them.

Which would incidentally solve the problem of having to roll Horde to see Worgen lore.

[Killmaim Deathbringer]

It's kind of odd how in Cataclysm, Garrosh got all pissy when they nuked that place in Stonetalon that was filled with Children and Women (was it? I kind remember, anyway it had innocent lives in it). Now the bastard is killing everything that questions him.

[lopk]

Wait, didn't we already know this? I could have sworn that I've know this for a while.

Guess not.

[Honeyprime]

Alliance fist pump moment - it was promised - what is it?
This expansion, after Theramore, there have been a string of Alliance victories. They stopped Garrosh in 5.1 from doing what he was going to do. By 5.2, we had purged Dalaran. Dalaran is now an Alliance city. 5.3, we saw the Horde completely dissolving while the Alliance is coming together. And in 5.4, the Alliance is marching into Orgrimmar, deposing the Warchief, and allowing the Horde to name a successor that they can work with. So, Alliance is changing the world here. And so, that's big! I don't know how to make it any bigger without alienating the entire Horde playerbase. I think we're trying to walk the line where both Alliance and Horde are seeing the siege of Orgrimmar as something they're both excited about. I think we've crafted a good story to do that. I'm not sure... if we were sieging Stormwind would that be more fist-pumpy? I mean, YOU'RE SIEGING ORGRIMMAR! YOU ARE TAKING AN ENEMY CAPITAL AND KILLING THE WARCHIEF! I don't know what more the Alliance can be doing. They're like, "uuhhhh yeahh, whatever." I don't know, I don't know what more the Alliance can be doing. PUMP SOME FISTS AS YOU KILL EVERY SINGLE ORC IN ORGRIMMAR, practically. (Source)

All caps to describe the Siege? What people are complaining about though is that they aren't besieging the opposing faction's capital and killing their leader. They're helping the Horde besiege a villain who has taken their capital from them. The Alliance isn't beating the Horde, they're beating Garrosh. Right now, they're helping the actual Horde. It would be like saying Wrath of the Lich King was an expansion about defeating the Burning Legion because he was Kil'jaeden's minion until after Reign of Chaos. Not to mention, the Alliance lead up to the siege involved piloting a robot cat with a leet-speak name...

Anyway, I think I see the real problem here. Upset that the Alliance doesn't cheer at the Dalaran purge, and that they're not excited to kill every single orc in Orgrimmar? Blizzard doesn't realize what kinds of people pick the Alliance. Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone, but I bet you people are generally going to choose the shiny knights and humans of the Alliance over the brutish races of the Horde because... they want to be heroes, not barbaric conquerors (not saying the Horde are evil, but to a new player they are going to appear evil in comparison).

The Alliance players don't want to commit genocide. They want to have victories in a war, but not at the cost of their soul. They don't want to sacrifice their values just to say they accomplished something. And don't say you have to. Look at pretty much any neutral faction. And you know what? I think this may explain all the weirdness about the biggest heroes becoming neutral. Blizzard apparently has this weird idea that both factions are mindless, evil conquerors instead of both being the heroes they're supposed to be post-Warcraft III, and yet for some reason we're forced to join them instead of the actual heroes.

The Order of the Silver Hand and the Cult of the Damned both formed in Alliance territory. I'm willing to bet most Alliance players identify more strongly with the former.

This so much. Seriously, all caps? I don't want to "KILL EVERY ORC IN OGRIMMAR". I don't get all fist-pumpy killing/accusing innocents. I was put off by the Dalaran purge quest line. I didn't feel it was a fist pump moment at all. I..........well, you explained things pretty well.

[iamthedevil]

Good, less alliance.

[Arcanist]

What do you expect?

They honestly don't care as one of the devs admitted that he finds writing for the Alliance boring. Clearly, most of them feel the same way because if they did care the Alliance wouldn't have an illogical, "slapped together at the last moment" "story".

[rebecca191]

I guess he isn't evil enough yet. Next, they'll have him kill puppies.

[Deleted]

one human stating his kids where taking and youre CLAIMING Garosh took them?
wheres your prrof for YOUR CLAIM???

[josykay]

I think, taking children as prisoners is really one of the more harmless things after watching several screenshots of the SOO raid, including goblins als practicing target for archers/ gunners and the slaughter of many Orgrimmar citizens.

While the one half of (more or less meaningless Horde npcs support Garrosh and are killable, he slaughters nearly the other half of orcs in Orgrimmar.

[Aquamonkey]

I wonder what happened to the kids in the Orgrimmar orphanarium.

[Grimble]

I for one am pretty much okay with storming Orgrimmar and painting the walls with the guts of everyone inside, as long as the final battle/cutscene isn't just THRALL THRALL THRALL or something. Trying to claim that the actual Warchief of the Horde, sitting on the throne of Orgrimmar, somehow isn't "real Horde" just because some of the Horde doesn't like him? Doesn't wash with me.

Fuck it.

/fistpump

[Ellessandra]

It's funny how now one bats an eyelid when we kill thousands of adult enemies/npc's but everyone loses their minds when kids "might" become casualties. In a fake world.

[Skorpionss]

lol you probably have the biggest grin right now.

Next, we just need Stonetalon to (again) be proven that Garrosh was in on it, and there will be nothing to support the claim that Garrosh was ever anything close to good.

I think I read a tweet about that It wasn't straight up confirmation but more like a hint hint nudge nudge type of thing... Don't remember if it was said by metzen or kosack though...

[Deleted]

Those screenshots are pretty grim :S Especially considering the models match to named NPCs in old Theramore - That women on the pillar = http://wowpedia.org/Bartender_Lillian

Glad to see the traitor Neeru finally got what he deserved!

But sad to see the warlock trainers all dead, they trained me for 7 years!

[Teye]

I love how people are more offended by him taking child prisoners than they are about him dropping a nuclear bomb on a City. Seriously, get your priorities straight.

[Korgoth]

Who cares for the children of some slave trading dictatorship! I REMEMBER OLD HILLSBRAD! I REMEMBER FREEING ORC SLAVES! Alliance have no moral high ground!

[checking facts]

I love how people are more offended by him taking child prisoners than they are about him dropping a nuclear bomb on a City. Seriously, get your priorities straight.

children > soldiers + ronin

period.