Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bendak View Post
    Dude, it's a video game. Please chill out. Why wasn't this guy at least suspended if not banned for this kind of talk instead of a friendly pep talk from a mod? Jeezus.

    p.s. congrats on discovering the semicolon
    It's not about the video game. This guy responded with complete bullshit; irritating the OP being his only intention. The OP put quite an effort making his post and such responses from this guy should not be tolerated. His likes deserve no "constructive" response; they only deserve being called out as what they really are. I can't believe how non of the posters here had the courage to call this fucker out. I mean are you all blind? Commenting on the use of word "skill"? Do you think he takes his actual post seriously or that he is actually trying to make a point? Defining the word "skill"? The whole fucking game is about pressing buttons reactively; that's the whole fucking game and he is debating the word skill and undermining a post that took quite an effort to make. That said, this forum however seems to embrace his likes and defend his actions. It seems most of the dwellers here are low lifers with similar sickness. Do you know why sex offenders and criminals like to live in the same neighborhood? Because they feel safe together, safe from people who aren't sick bastards, safe from people who make them feel inferior and remind them of what they are.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    ....
    Yes it is just about a video game and you clearly crossed a line by telling someone that their life is worthless and suicide would be a valid option, in your opinion, for them to consider.

    You are pathetic, and your opinions and comments are of no value to this, or any other game forum.

    Please take a break from the game and this forum and reconsider the path your life is on.

  3. #23
    Pandaren Monk Redpanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Searching for the Old Gods
    Posts
    1,953
    Boy this sure escalated quickly. But yeah the skill needed to play a hunter is t what it used to be. Mm is the only spec that has some semblance of skill to play but it's not competative so oh well.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rackfu View Post
    Yes it is just about a video game and you clearly crossed a line by telling someone that their life is worthless and suicide would be a valid option, in your opinion, for them to consider.

    You are pathetic, and your opinions and comments are of no value to this, or any other game forum.

    Please take a break from the game and this forum and reconsider the path your life is on.
    It's interesting to see how sick people rally for each other. You still can't see that this is not about this game or any game, it's about the type of humans I'm seeing; and the other type that tolerate them and rally for them. Retarded self loathing lowlifes entertaining themselves by spitting bullshit and being annoying to other people who actually write real posts with real efforts like the OP did. They think that by their annoyance they can elevate themselves to the OP level but they are very wrong, as all people can see what they are in a glimpse.

    You fail miserably to see this and you talk about a break from the game and from the forums, seriously? I don't even play the game anymore and what forum break? I barely post here but when I see a worthless piece of trash trying to undermine someone who is actually worth something and has actually written a post with effort and value; a piece of trash trying to elevate himself by insulting the OP's post and points; when I see this guy I will be damned if I don't call him out like I did. Every word I said was true and I stand by it. The world is a much better place without such people. Your life will be on a much better path when you call them out shamelessly and just throw them out of your life, let them hang around their own likes.

    You were warned and infracted in this thread already about this exact behavior. In the future, please heed such warnings and do not continue to insult, flame, or otherwise berate your fellow forum members.
    Last edited by Daetur; 2013-09-01 at 06:38 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Arhippa View Post
    Also, minimum range =/= dead zone. And correct me if I'm wrong here but didn't minimum range get removed in MoP and not Cata? I remember standing inside Yor'sahj but that was mainly due to the complaints hunters made on the PTR about not being able to stack for heals considering all the AoE that boss had. In firelands I definitely remember hating 10man Baleroc because I had to go to melee range and spam raptor strike while soaking a crystal.


    I can't remember a lot of hunters in Cata using the hardcast AiS style for heroic progress at least. Most still went with the more traditional arcane shot dump when low on haste, as in outside of rapid fire/bloodlust/possible trinket procs/troll racial/whatever else you might've had, simply because hardcasting wasn't beneficial if you had to cancel or delay several shots which had a pretty good probability of happening if you were progressing heroics. With the careful aim phase and tracking your casting speed levels, I'd say there was quite a bit of microing involved.

    It's really late and I'm sick, so I apologize for any confusing sentences or possible mistakes. I'm pretty sure I'm also missing some things from my list but I don't really care at this point.

    You're correct minimum range was changed in MoP. - Forgot that Blizz had modified some bosses in Cata so Hunters could stack; but not all.

    Firelands was where hardcasting AiS became a lot more viable because of increasing amounts of haste on gear. This was also one of my favorite tiers as I had to keep (2) sets of gear as MM. Crit/Haste gear for Shannox, Baelroc, Domo. Crit/Mastery gear for Beth as spiderling bot(in 10m I felt the 100% uptime on concussive barrage to be better than SVs traps), Lord Rhyolith.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bendak View Post
    ... and there is still definitely a separation between a good hunter and a bad hunter. You need to utilize every GCD and have good focus management. If that weren't the case I wouldn't be able to beat hunters who outgear me by a significant margin. Every time it happens it's easy to see the difference: the better hunter will have fired many more shots in the same period of time.

    I've played my hunter since early 2005 and I'm enjoying it the most right now. I am nostalgic for armor penetration days but that's the rose tinted goggles talking. There was just something fun about putting together that BiS armor pen set and having like 60% crit (sometimes 80% with certain trinket procs).

    When I joined a guild during H ICC Progression (Late into it 15% buff) and on the simple Saurfang fight I had a total of 40 more attacks in(40 Globals... 40 Seconds worth of DPS time..) than their main hunter who had been with them for years. When I asked if she lags in 25man and she replied 'No', I seriously started to question my choice in joining.


    I do miss the Armor Pen days; What I don't miss was the Warriors who would need on my armor pen legs.
    Last edited by Drairon; 2013-09-01 at 09:31 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    It's interesting to see how sick people rally for each other. You still can't see that this is not about this game or any game, it's about the type of humans I'm seeing; and the other type that tolerate them and rally for them. Retarded self loathing lowlifes entertaining themselves by spitting bullshit and being annoying to other people who actually write real posts with real efforts like the OP did. They think that by their annoyance they can elevate themselves to the OP level but they are very wrong, as all people can see what they are in a glimpse.

    You fail miserably to see this and you talk about a break from the game and from the forums, seriously? I don't even play the game anymore and what forum break? I barely post here but when I see a worthless piece of trash trying to undermine someone who is actually worth something and has actually written a post with effort and value; a piece of trash trying to elevate himself by insulting the OP's post and points; when I see this guy I will be damned if I don't call him out like I did. Every word I said was true and I stand by it. The world is a much better place without such people. Your life will be on a much better path when you call them out shamelessly and just throw them out of your life, let them hang around their own likes.
    i think you have serious problems going waaaay deeper than anyone could imagine, and reading comprehension is just one of the smallest of them.

    i was simply mocking the incorrect usage of a word (because that's the fastest way to learn the correct one), but answered to the topic -besides the small joke- respectfully and spot on topic.

    you, on the other hand, interpreted some bs into what i said and started calling me names.
    i suggest you to see a psychotherapist, because when something like that happens in real life you could turn into a danger for your surroundings and yourself - unless you are a 12 year old cod-kiddy that generally has problems with his anger mangement (which still isn't quite what's supposed to be normal).

    so far,
    chill your nuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Yet I am willing to bet that if you put me up against one of the more "famous" PvP hunters that people recognise as skilled, I would be able to outperform them in a PvE enviroment. And he would ceartainly be able to beat me in a PvP enviroment.
    But the fact that I am a houndred percent sure that I can outperform them in PvE, would then suggest that there is a difference, and a different skill set neccessary - a skill cap, so to say :P.
    (another wrong use of the word "skill CAP" )
    that's basically what i told for the pve-skill part.
    the perfection of the "rotation" and the abuse of boss mechanics (these just have to be learned how to use them to benefit from it - as already told) are what defines skill in pve.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Also, if every class required "no skill" to play, it means everyone would be doing pretty much the same dps. This is nowhere near true - which means that there has to be a difference in the "skill cap" between the good players, and the bad.
    This difference, as said in the topic, has been greatly watered down, but it still exists - else every hunter would be doing the same approx damage.
    yes, the difference comes from bad players not being able to perform their "rotation" well - e.g. gcd maximization. i have a good video about that:

    edit: while watching this video again for myself i realized there is one thing that isn't quite accurate anymore:
    at about 2:47 kripp talks about latency compensation, but with the spell-queue system introduced in ... uhm... afaik early cata it's not a concern anymore.
    Last edited by Flaim; 2013-09-01 at 11:15 AM.

  7. #27
    I'm too lazy right now to give a shit.
    But i felt like i needed to get this off my chest;
    Flaim, Shut up.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    (another wrong use of the word "skill CAP" )
    that's basically what i told for the pve-skill part.
    the perfection of the "rotation" and the abuse of boss mechanics (these just have to be learned how to use them to benefit from it - as already told) are what defines skill in pve.



    yes, the difference comes from bad players not being able to perform their "rotation" well - e.g. gcd maximization. i have a good video about that:
    SNIP
    edit: while watching this video again for myself i realized there is one thing that isn't quite accurate anymore:
    at about 2:47 kripp talks about latency compensation, but with the spell-queue system introduced in ... uhm... afaik early cata it's not a concern anymore.
    Except that's simply not just "it", as things like... Multidotting, movement, trinket proc/CD alignment and such also have to be considered .
    The issue is that hunters have neither multidotting, nor movement to be concerned about anymore. If you only play a hunter, I can understand why you don't think movement is a big deal, but understand this:

    The ENTIRE reason that hunters are sucking hard in the top 50, and doing relatively "well" in normal guilds or low ranking heroic guilds, is because of the fact that movement is a non-issue. It's not because they are "good", or because the class is strong - it is literally because they do not have to worry about movement like every other class does.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Except that's simply not just "it", as things like... Multidotting, movement, trinket proc/CD alignment and such also have to be considered .
    The issue is that hunters have neither multidotting, nor movement to be concerned about anymore. If you only play a hunter, I can understand why you don't think movement is a big deal, but understand this:

    The ENTIRE reason that hunters are sucking hard in the top 50, and doing relatively "well" in normal guilds or low ranking heroic guilds, is because of the fact that movement is a non-issue. It's not because they are "good", or because the class is strong - it is literally because they do not have to worry about movement like every other class does.
    that's why i wrote in my 3rd post in this thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    offtopic:
    does anyone else think we need casted spells that aren't castable on the move, but provide higher dmg than the current set of spells?
    something like arcane shot while on the move and aimed shot while standing still - just as a general direction.
    i think we both can agree that hunters are lacking something that can be mastered to provide higher dps, but we both have a "slightly" different opinion on what this could be as we both see different things as "skillfull" (vs just "annoying"), right?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    ... but we both have a "slightly" different opinion on what this could be as we both see different things as "skillfull" (vs just "annoying"), right?
    "The word 'skill' is like 'love'. You can hardly get three people to agree as to its meaning." -Some Random Warrior.


  11. #31
    You completely neglect to mention pet movement and pet positioning which really weren't things in other expansions because BM really wasn't much a thing. Utilizing 'Move To', Master's Call, and Kill Command charge all factor into the skill cap. You should probably do a more exhaustive overview if you're going to make a thread like this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And frankly, this thread completely misses the mark. No evolution has actually occurred: this 'watering down' was what people like to refer to as 'quality of life' changes that really just made the gameplay more consistent. The true problem is that the hunter class behaves essentially the same across all three specs.

    My belief: pure DPS should be good at DPS. Everyone (pures and hybrids) should do pretty much the same single target DPS in a vacuum. You should bring a hunter, mage, warlock, or rogue because you know they are going to be able to adapt well to pretty much any encounter out there (because they have three specs to choose from -- one's bound to be good) . You should bring all the other classes because they have raid cooldowns that you know you be helpful on any encounter: these raid cooldowns are to compensate for their more limited DPS toolkit.

    Warlocks are the prime example of the goal of this design. Each spec not only feels different, but excels in different areas. Affliction has strong multi-dotting, Demonology has strong AOE and gains single target damage in AOE situations, Destruction has strong target switching abilities, a strong execute, and excels in areas where this execute can be used to replenish resources. That doesn't perfectly encompass the strengths of each spec, nor does it mean each spec receives the same level of play overall. However, the point is that, in my opinion, strong class design allows people these choices. There is too much talk about spec diversity in the scope of "each spec needs to feel different" rather than "each spec needs to do different things and excel in different areas."

    Marksmanship is a perfect example of a spec that doesn't stand out among the rest of the specs. Where does Marks excel? Nowhere, really, and it's not that the other specs really do anything that much better. Each spec boils down to pure single target or pure AOE. The reason to choose between the specs comes down to the numbers. That is why Marks is a completely dead spec. If you buffed the numbers so Marks had stronger AOE, or stronger single target, the result is that either one or both of the other specs would takes Marks' place in the grave. There are other examples, such as Subtlety, that show what happens when you design a spec with no niche.

    The game is much more complex than Single Target and AOE. Blizzard needs to address this when they take a look at Hunters next xpac. Maybe then some actual evolution of the class will occur.
    Last edited by Kennyloggins; 2013-09-01 at 05:35 PM.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    ~snip~
    And this is why I hope for the next expansion when they promised they would make Hunter specs feel different from each other, they should make;
    BM: Cleave
    MM: Single-Target/Burst AoE
    SV: Multi-Dot/Sustained AoE

    Beast cleave would receive a slight change; Beast Cleave does more damage than currently to 4 targets, 50% less to other targets present. So if you have 6 targets, it would do X damage to 4 of those targets and 0.5X to the last 2. It would be RNG slightly, but it would promote BM being a good cleave spec along with still having decent AoE through the same means as now.
    Also the 4 targets would ignore the AoE cap in a way that if you had 12 mobs in range, 4 of them would receive the X damage, then 8 would receive 0.5X damage as if they were different spells that the pet does.

  13. #33
    Totally agree with Kenny

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Uhm. You are, of course, aware that this is the entire point of something "skill"-based? You have to understand something, and how to react to it. If you do it well, you have mastered that "skill". Don't for a second try to tell me that there is no difference between now and back when you had to stutter step to get auto shots off. That is the entire concept of "skill" - something that you can optimise and become better at, in order to increase your output.
    In any case - mind to elaborate what in your mind constitutes "skill", if the above things did not?

    Out of interest, OP, you do not mention Arcane Shot munching. Why? Were we really so few hunters that used a tick-timer for BA+LnL ICD to avoid throwing away lock and load charges on Arcane Shot (Basicly - twist your rotation/focus usage around never using an Arcane shot right as BA ticks when LnL ICD is ready) that it is not common knowledge that we used to do this as Survival, untill the mid-DS patch removed Arcane shot from LnL? Does explain why other surv hunters had such a hard time keeping up pre-buff =P.
    he also forgot to mention the scorp pets, he forgot to mention Little things like that bug with Fox, hawk and camoflage. there are so many hunters out there that know Little about what this class used to be.

    is a shocker to me that ppl still say that you had to switch to viper and lose dps when i never had issues on my raid because we had paladins as everyone else because hello holy light was so op and you would have at least 3 paladins on your raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    And this is why I hope for the next expansion when they promised they would make Hunter specs feel different from each other
    why ppl keep thinking they will do something like this. as far as i recall (i dont speak english so i could be really wrong) they said they will try to change spec so they fill a bit different but you wont see a total revamp as warlocks did this xpac, this last part mean that they prolly change the name of some of the fillers or focus dump like they did with warriors but the specs basicly will be the same as happen to warriors, there is going to be a main shot that you will keep on CD, there is going to be a focus dump that you will use when you are above your main shot focus and there is going to be the filler shot that will replenish your focus.

    if someone can quote lore when he said that please do but i think i read that well. i dont think they want hunters to be a powerfull class i think they want hunters to be the easier class that can be mediocre at pretty much everything but bad at everything as well. things like we wont give hunters more utility gave me this hint. traps and MD is your utility also did it.

    To Kenny, in a perfect world buddy that sounds great, this is wow tho they moved from that long time ago, now hibrids bring good dps and way better utility tan anyone else but warlocks with their "Unique" utility that is required to almost every fight (since healthstones are a HUGE healing boost to any raid that use them properly).

    also something that draco mentioned before, movement is hindering our class, is amazing that we can dps on the move as we should since we are like a melee with 40 yard range but i think this is the whole reason why they dont want hunters to be good at anything. they wont make every fight a need to move 100% of the time because healers will always need time to cast so this pretty much wont allow us to get OUR fight.

  15. #35
    Personal attacks in this thread need to stop. Please stay on-topic and constructive.

  16. #36
    The thing that annoys me with hunters in their current iteration is how shot scaling works, and across all specs. Signature shots just aren't that, there is no skill involved with their use and a corresponding amount of reward.

    This isn't just true for hunters, blizzard need to understand that what's skillful + fun is different for pve and pvp. Special/signature shot's can't be that because of pvp burst. Every xpac we go through this class balancing act yet blizzard don't apply a pvp aura modified spell table.

    Whenever I start thinking about class design ,the lack of decoupled spell tables makes me wonder whether they have in fact, a fucking clue

    edit - realised I hadn't adressed OP.

    I prefer energy resource systems (feral before hunters got focus), mana was infinite soon after it mattered. I like some of the new talents, although some should be baseline (Gt and amoc), I'd like to feel like I had more things to manage. Introduced baseline talents like disengage rock but even in 10m if we aren't supplying buffs we bring nothing but dps to the group, when that is mediocre at best I find it quite an unrewarding class to play.
    Last edited by Tyrantworm; 2013-09-03 at 02:32 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Not to mention that managing mana was literally toggling viper and hawk depending on "do I have enough mana to cast shit?" - I don't see how it had any thought process involved, *at all*. Even if you were min-maxing and only switching to aspect of the viper on steady shots and back to hawk for the harder hitting shots (and mind, I'm not even sure if this was a gain - it's been so long) its... Extremely simple, and could be accomplished automatically with the same macro PvP'ers used for Fox in Cata.
    Mostly true, but there were times in both pve and pvp if mana was an issue some thought was involved in optimal viper usage. Typically it was estimating if you may be low on mana before a burst window.

  18. #38
    oh god I remember that range bullshit, on fights where we had to stack " alright everyone stack up on the bosses ass" "but.. but I can't.. "

    and having to kite stuff so you could stay atleast 8 yards away from them.

    it really made no sense, wouldn't you be more accurate if you're shooting an arrow into someone face 1 foot away.
    Last edited by hareu; 2013-09-04 at 09:47 AM.

  19. #39
    skill caps in a game, omg.... I can run 100 meter in 10.7 sec, I'm more proud of that then I am of the time my guild wiped on lich king 25 hc for 6 months and I never failed a defile.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,345
    Quote Originally Posted by hareu View Post
    oh god I remember that range bullshit, on fights where we had to stack " alright everyone stack up on the bosses ass" "but.. but I can't.. "

    and having to kite stuff so you could stay atleast 8 yards away from them.

    it really made no sense, wouldn't you be more accurate if you're shooting an arrow into someone face 1 foot away.
    Warlord Zon'ozz comes to mind... 2 groups, 1 Range "soakers" who bounced bolt and rest in melee to bounce it back out... Guess where Hunters went, even though we didn't soak?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •