Starting new raid group (10) - What should I focus on recruiting?

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Hey all!

I'm currently in a 25 heroic guild on Bleeding Hollow (Alliance side). I used to run in the 10 man group we had, and when it fell apart, I've been pugging with occasional stints in the main raid (someone is missing, farm bosses, etc). I've been talking with the officers and GM/RL, and I've been given the green light on making my own semi-hardore 10 man group for Siege. I'm a Protection Warrior, so 1 tank slot is already filled, but I'd like some advice on what to focus recruiting for to make the best group possible (I do intend to do trial runs and such), for buffs, raid cooldowns, classes, and loot distribution.

So here's the group composition I was thinking:

Tanks:
1x Protection Warrior
1x Protection Paladin

Healers:
1x Holy paladin
1x Restoration Druid/Shaman

Healers/DPS:
1x Restoration/Elemental Shaman OR 1 Restoration/Balance Druid

DPS:
1x Warlock
1x Mage
1x Rogue
1x Spriest
1x Hunter

Tokens:
4 Conqueror (2x Paladin, 1x Priest, 1x Warlock)
3 Protector (1x Warrior, 1x Shaman, 1x Hunter)
3 Vanquisher (1x Mage, 1x Druid, 1x Rogue)

This way, everything is covered, gear doesn't overlap too much and nothing should get wasted. And the raid cooldowns are pretty good as well, I think.

Any words of advice/suggestions otherwise for a new raid leader?

[Inthislzon]

Get a prot paladin AND a brm if possible, drop the prot warrior. Your DK should have a blood offspec ready just in case, also he'll be getting dodge/parry plate for his offspec as no prot paladin wants non-haste items.

Same deal for your druid and resto (assuming balance).

And recruit another DPS or 2, optimally a hunter, just in case. Real life happens and you WILL have people missing

[clevin]

Get a prot paladin AND a brm if possible, drop the prot warrior.

reading the post is highly recommended. The OP *is* the prot warrior.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Well, I guess I could drop myself - Leading the raid from outside the instance would be a fun challenge =D

I was planning on recruiting a bit more, just in case. Wanted to get the main group settled first.

As well, who should tier gear be fed to first? And what loot systems work the best? I've only ever done need before greed or a /roll system before.

[Elios]

I would drop the DK and get a Hunter.

Also Resto shamans are probably be looking good this Tier.

[clevin]

Loot system... it depends. I've used rolling with Main Spec > off spec and it's fine with two constraints.

First, people need to trust each other and consider that an upgrade might be more important for someone else to have (the No Loot Hog thing).

Second, I add a "one piece of loot per person" rule for main spec items. What that means if that if you roll on a main spec item and win it and then another main spec item drops, you can roll for it but if someone else rolls on it as a main spec item too and if they've not won anything, they get the item over you regardless of roll. This spreads loot around and avoids one person getting 2 or 3 items while others who can use the loot get nothing.

NOTE 1: If you want to trade the earlier item to the other player for the later one, fine... but one main spec item per evening. NOTE 2: If you've won something and another item drops and you're the only person who can use it main spec it will go to you over someone else's offspec. NOTE 3: If everyone eligible for an item has won something then this resets. So if you have two cloth DPS and each has won a MS item and third item drops it's just high roll that determines winner.

The other choice is EPGP. I like EPGP if the group has a lot of people rotating in an out since it rewards people who show up more often over the people who cherrypick nights.

If the group is very stable, I'd simply do the roll system. If not, EPGP.

[Elios]

The best loot system for me is "We are here to kill the boss not for the loot"...and Common sense.

[clevin]

The best loot system for me is "We are here to kill the boss not for the loot"...and Common sense.

The problem is that if the group's new to one another. Rules help, even if they're really simple - "High roll wins, Main Spec > Off spec. if you've won something already tonight next highest roll wins." That's straightforward, there's not much you can argue with and there's no smell of "the RL is giving stuff to their friends!" or other bias.

[Nobleshield]

Your comp is actually in a good place, given the circumstances. I'd definitely try to get a Brewmaster or similar since you obviously can't drop yourself, although if you dropped the DK you could get a Prot Pally since you want different gear drops than he/she would Ideally I'd say run Resto Druid/Disc Priest/Resto Shaman (Ele MS, Resto for 3-hal fights) for your heal comp, but a Holy Pally is not a bad choice either if you get a Mistweaver or the Shaman, so that comp can work too.

Your DPS looks solid, as your DK will be getting the Haste gear, and you can get the Crit gear for your offspec (although there are no solo tank fights in SoO from what I'm reading). I would say maybe a Hunter instead of the Druid, if you get a Mistweaver.

Ideally of course you'd want to get a couple of additional standby raiders, but that always varies based on individuals. If you could swing it I'd say have another Mage and/or Warlock on standby since those are shaping up to be the best ranged DPS.

I can't speak to a loot system as my guild has always ever used /roll (which I hate), but I'm a big fan of the Shroud Loot System DKP system (basically it's DKP where you either spend half of it if you want to win the item, with highest DKP winning, or if nobody spends half it goes to /roll and the winner pays 10 DKP. Very fair), but for a 10-man you might as well go with Loot Council assuming you can be fair.

Gear distribution is almost always DPS > Tanks > Healers, with the common misconception being that tanks get fed gear first which hasn't really happened since the old days, but as with anything else use your discretion. If you and your co-tank are getting steamrolled by a boss before you can hit the enrage or before the healers are taxed, then you and your co-tank need some upgrades.

[Inthislzon]

reading the post is highly recommended. The OP *is* the prot warrior.

I had to read the OP 4 times before finding that part, guess i should go to sleep.

About loot distribution we do rolls except if some set bonus is insanely good (read 2P BrM on ToT) then that person gets priority on tier. Nothing else

[clevin]

I had to read the OP 4 times before finding that part, guess i should go to sleep.

g'night!

[thunderdragon2]

Get a prot paladin AND a brm if possible, drop the prot warrior. Your DK should have a blood offspec ready just in case, also he'll be getting dodge/parry plate for his offspec as no prot paladin wants non-haste items.

Same deal for your druid and resto (assuming balance).

And recruit another DPS or 2, optimally a hunter, just in case. Real life happens and you WILL have people missing

from what i know about blood dk gearing they want haste also i know a few blood dks that go that way with a resto/ele shammy in ther w/o a hunter all the mail agi gear is wasted.

ive used all the loot systems bar suiside kings my 2 favourite ones were epegp and rolling (assuming u know how to use epgp) it works perfectly for my 25 man guild not sure how essective it is in 10m tho

[Mefistophelis]

for the DPS part of raid i'd go mage/priest/hunter/rogue/warlock .
for 2nd tank i'd go either BRM or DK and healers Paladin/Shaman/Druid with any of the three being hybrid dps would be fine .

Loot ... the best system here is EPGP . It's fair, fast and clean . There are alot of addons that support that system and help raid leader distribute loot .

[Sal the Shieldhog]

So, I should switch the druid and priest around, keep the shaman as a healer, and have any of the 3 go DPS for 2 heal fights. I guess taking the DK out in favor of a hunter would be best with a paladin tank, as well.

I've never used EPGP before, though I did a quick Google search of it just now. It seems a bit complicated, though that may just be the quick glance over I did of the Wowpedia page.

Thanks for all the replies everyone, you're all great help! <3

[thunderdragon2]

I've never used EPGP before, though I did a quick Google search of it just now. It seems a bit complicated, though that may just be the quick glance over I did of the Wowpedia page.

Thanks for all the replies everyone, you're all great help! <3

epgp isnt complicated all you need to do is set min ep and a min gp for every 1 to start with make sure every1 has loot master installed, when you kill a boss the following options appear (mainspec, minor upgrade, alt/offspec, trial pass) atleast on my guilds one main spec has most prio miinor upgrade is next followed by alt/os and trial ( for new members to the guild they have the lowest prio tho when it comes to os v trial you should always ask the os to pass gear for the trial

the guild rank of the raid member also determines the prio for gear. at the start all the "raiders" or what ever the highest raider rank is in your guild will have the same pr (pr=ep/gp) so they system will do a internal roll to decide the winner and the winner will be charged gp for the item and will move lower down the priority list for gear


hope this helps

[clevin]

There are EPGP addons that help. You'll want some decay built in so that if someone leaves for 3 months they don't come back and still have more DKP than a new recruit who's been helping for the last month.

Honestly, though, the only reason to go EPGP is if you swap people fairly regularly since it rewards people who attend regularly over those who do not. If you have a solid, core group that doesn't change much a /roll system with the rules I outlined above will be fine.

[thunderdragon2]

There are EPGP addons that help. You'll want some decay built in so that if someone leaves for 3 months they don't come back and still have more DKP than a new recruit who's been helping for the last month.

Honestly, though, the only reason to go EPGP is if you swap people fairly regularly since it rewards people who attend regularly over those who do not. If you have a solid, core group that doesn't change much a /roll system with the rules I outlined above will be fine.

thats true but its also the fairest system i know of also my guild has the decay set at 5% (its done weekly)

also hes right it wont be much use if u have only 10 people in a 10 guild unlike say 13-15 in a 10 mna guild, both dkp and loot council are puting the officers in controll with simple rolling rolls can be missed ect cant comment on suiside kings as ive never used it

[Sal the Shieldhog]

thats true but its also the fairest system i know of also my guild has the decay set at 5% (its done weekly)

also hes right it wont be much use if u have only 10 people in a 10 guild unlike say 13-15 in a 10 mna guild, both dkp and loot council are puting the officers in controll with simple rolling rolls can be missed ect cant comment on suiside kings as ive never used it

Well, it's a 25 man guild, I've just been given reign over the 10 man group. I plan on having a few subs anyways, because I've had problems in other guilds I've been in. I like that it rewards people who show up, because like I said, I've had groups where people don't show up forever then come back and expect loot and a spot. I'll play around with it =D

Thanks again for all the help guys!

[Qck]

A lot of your DPS are on the same tier token, which could be a problem in 10 man. Tier bonuses are(generally) pretty huge, and most guilds these days adopt a DPS gearing heavy attitude because it's generally the most efficient way to kill bosses early in progression.

I'd think about changing up the healing comp to have a Resto Druid, and grab a SPriest both of which are very strong next tier. Snag a hunter as well to swap in and out for mail agi drops and you'll be gold, IMO.

[unholyness]

I would drop the DK and get a Hunter.

Also Resto shamans are probably be looking good this Tier.

Ya, the more melee you have the harder progression will be and this is from someone who is raiding on the PTR. There are a couple of fights good for melee because of silences but the majority favor range even more than Tot fights.