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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    I hope they wont, But blizzard have multipel times said " gameplay is more importen then lore" so even if orcs are always the main army, so most orcs have died, AND many orcs have joined Garrosh, somehow they are still the main force of the horde, and therefor they will still be in control.
    But the Orcs being the dominant force in the Horde is nothing to do with gameplay. It's all about the story representation. So long as they're not placing a cap on the amount of Orc players available per realm gameplay is not being affected by the Orcs taking a back seat.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    "gameplay is more importen then lore"
    That quote is said mostly to anyone bitching about Ashenvale and Gilneas not reflecting the "Alliance victories" and that they prefer keep the zones like they are and offering interesting questing for both sides instead of just screw up everything just for a question of satisfaction and "fairness".
    Darkspear never die.

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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    That quote is said mostly to anyone bitching about Ashenvale and Gilneas not reflecting the "Alliance victories" and that they prefer keep the zones like they are and offering interesting questing for both sides instead of just screw up everything just for a question of satisfaction and "fairness".
    Or they could operate phasing so it feels like the world is dynamic and alive.

    If they are/were going to commit themselves to an Alliance vs Horde war then they should have damn well made sure they had the resources to keep it dynamic and interesting for both sides. If not end it and return to a neutral storyline that both factions can enjoy.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Or they could operate phasing so it feels like the world is dynamic and alive.

    If they are/were going to commit themselves to an Alliance vs Horde war then they should have damn well made sure they had the resources to keep it dynamic and interesting for both sides. If not end it and return to a neutral storyline that both factions can enjoy.
    Resources that should be drained by much more useful content for a pointless phasing. And for anyone bitching about "they did it with Theramore", replace a city full of scripts, text quests and dialogues with nothing but a huge crater is extremely easy, you just erase everything and put "nothing" there. Phasing places like Ashenvale and Gilneas would require new scripts, new quests, new npcs and new dialogues. And that's huge.

    I don't even know what it means "neutral storyline", since the point of phasing Ashenvale would be to, basically, remove the Horde presence from there, while now both sides have plenty of quests there, and this have nothing to do with the feeling of fairness, justice, sense of victory and stuff like that. For this they always say "gameplay > lore" when it comes to the game itself.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    You are children on a playground drawing lines in the sand.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Resources that should be drained by much more useful content for a pointless phasing. And for anyone bitching about "they did it with Theramore", replace a city full of scripts, text quests and dialogues with nothing but a huge crater is extremely easy, you just erase everything and put "nothing" there. Phasing places like Ashenvale and Gilneas would require new scripts, new quests, new npcs and new dialogues. And that's huge.

    I don't even know what it means "neutral storyline", since the point of phasing Ashenvale would be to, basically, remove the Horde presence from there, while now both sides have plenty of quests there, and this have nothing to do with the feeling of fairness, justice, sense of victory and stuff like that. For this they always say "gameplay > lore" when it comes to the game itself.
    Don't forget all the artwork for the crater was already completed for the scenario. All they did was copy/paste it into the world.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Priestess Ishanah View Post
    seriously, looking at these screenshots in the other thread, almost every named orc in orgrimmar (or at least the ones able to fight) is killed in this raid. NPCs of all kinds wind up evil and are killed by either the Kor'kron or the players, and we kill the Kor'kron too. Some of the best the orcish race has to offer dies, like nazgrim. Their whole military is being completely destroyed. There are NO organized orcs helping the rebel forces, except for the few npcs like Thrall and saurfang/eitrigg.

    But think about it. The orcs have been utterly ruined by this. their city is screwed and SO MANY of them are dead now. even the devs describe it as "wiping out every orc in orgrimmar". how can they still be the dominant force in the horde after this?
    Because Blizzard has poor writing, that's how!

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Resources that should be drained by much more useful content for a pointless phasing. And for anyone bitching about "they did it with Theramore", replace a city full of scripts, text quests and dialogues with nothing but a huge crater is extremely easy, you just erase everything and put "nothing" there. Phasing places like Ashenvale and Gilneas would require new scripts, new quests, new npcs and new dialogues. And that's huge.

    I don't even know what it means "neutral storyline", since the point of phasing Ashenvale would be to, basically, remove the Horde presence from there, while now both sides have plenty of quests there, and this have nothing to do with the feeling of fairness, justice, sense of victory and stuff like that. For this they always say "gameplay > lore" when it comes to the game itself.
    The point is, if you're going to create a war you should make it dynamic and changing.

    Zones gained and lost, skirmishes in zones changing every patch.

    Blizzard didn't have the resources for this and at times it came across as very forced, poorly written and felt like 1 side got by far the better (see horde 1-60, 5.3)

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    The point is, if you're going to create a war you should make it dynamic and changing.

    Zones gained and lost, skirmishes in zones changing every patch.

    Blizzard didn't have the resources for this and at times it came across as very forced, poorly written and felt like 1 side got by far the better (see horde 1-60, 5.3)
    The war was not the driving force that brougth to the revamp, the Shattering has been the excuse for doing such a massive rework, since the zones had very minor and almost irrelevant changes by the beginning of the game, so they revamped all the 1-60 zones by moving the world at least a bit forward, since those areas were old as the game itself, with storylines tied to pre-TBC events.

    Many zones had important changes that, in fact, brought the story forward with many events regarding the development of Garrosh, which was designed to be the final villain of MoP, so he needed some goddamn development outside of novels and short-stories.

    Revamping Ashenvale and Gilneas would just result in trivial story progression that probably wouldn't have nothing to do with the next expansion or even the next one after that, nothing that couldn't just be confirmed and explained by the devs or in some novel/short story, like happened with the "canonical removal" of the Kor'kron guards in the Undercity; what you say about the "zones gained and lost, skirmishes in zones changing every patch" ecc. could be applied if the game had 100% focus in the Horde/Alliance conflict, but it doesn't; this whole HvA campaign served just a precise storyline (Garrosh's arc) and the revamp in Cata helped a lot to actually give any sense of progression to the story.

    And if you felt that the Alliance quests were a bit worse or the Horde ones a bit better in the revamped zones that have been intended, since the "old world" always favored the Alliance in terms of interesting questlines and zones, compared to the Horde ones that were unintersting and, indeed, poorly written.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    You are children on a playground drawing lines in the sand.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    And if you felt that the Alliance quests were a bit worse or the Horde ones a bit better in the revamped zones that have been intended, since the "old world" always favored the Alliance in terms of interesting questlines and zones, compared to the Horde ones that were unintersting and, indeed, poorly written.
    Why don't we just all agree that content should be good for both sides every time?

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx16 View Post
    Why don't we just all agree that content should be good for both sides every time?
    That would be amazing, but kinda hard to put in practice, balance has always been a complicated bitch to handle, especially in this game.

    One thing is sure, phasing or revamping again those zones just for achieve some kind of justice or perfect balance is out of question, especially if we consider that I don't think any kind of "balance" would be achieved with the Horde removed by Ashenvale, for example, since would suddenly erase all their questlines there, and if the plan is just phasing Ashenvale just for see the Horde still there, with completely new questlines, but in a "losing" situation, well...that's pretty frivolous, if the point is moving forward a conflict that will have zero interest in the main story, at least in the short-term; they could always change their minds about it if some important storyline will be tied to these zones, probably.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    You are children on a playground drawing lines in the sand.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    That would be amazing, but kinda hard to put in practice, balance has always been a complicated bitch to handle, especially in this game.
    No. It isn't. I said content should be good for both factions every time. I didn't say balanced. The story is going to flip back and forth, one faction will get developed for a bit, then the other. Our job as players is to sit back and enjoy the ride rather than wave a flag for our chosen faction. If we all united, rather than constantly bitching at one another, this would really be achievable. Instead Blizzard has to spend so much time trying not to upset the ultra patriots of both factions.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I really wish people would stop saying this, and trying to use it as there excuse for why they don't understand Garrosh's actions in mists.

    All that happened in cata, was the writers making you think there was something else to Garrosh, when it was all a ruse. They convinced you he was a better orc then people regarded him as, but as all evidense as shown there after, his 'honorable actions' was nothing more then a ruse, where threw you off, so he could scheme something else.
    His plan for the mana bomb didn't happen by chance, he saw what it did in stonetalon, and drew inspiration from it, all the while making you think he was disgusted at the act, when really he as inspired by it. Hell, he more then likely knew about the bomb itself, and after its use, killed his commander to make it seem like he had nothing to do with it, when really it was his plan all along.

    Infact, I seem to remember one of the devs saying this, that it was all garrosh's plan to test the bomb out.
    Nah, that's all pretty retconlicious. I think the only sense you can make of Stonetalon is that whoever was writing that intended to show Garrosh's character development (note his reference to learning from Saurfang in Northrend) into a more palatable Warchief. Then later on they all changed their mind and just made him the villain for MoP.
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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx16 View Post
    No. It isn't. I said content should be good for both factions every time. I didn't say balanced. The story is going to flip back and forth, one faction will get developed for a bit, then the other. Our job as players is to sit back and enjoy the ride rather than wave a flag for our chosen faction. If we all united, rather than constantly bitching at one another, this would really be achievable. Instead Blizzard has to spend so much time trying not to upset the ultra patriots of both factions.
    It's not a matter of listening the "ultra-patriots" or some kind of loud and endless bitching, Blizzard decided themselves that the Horde questlines in the 1-60 bracket deserved something more, for compensate the lack of entertainement of the previous ones. Just because the Horde questlines are a bit better there doesn't mean that the Alliance ones are complete garbage. People should remember that is leveling content, not end-game, so is not worth of any kind of hard work in rephasing/reshaping or revamp until that doesn't fit with the current storyline (like happened in the Barrens, instead).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    (note his reference to learning from Saurfang in Northrend)
    Too bad that Garrosh essentially bashed and treated like shit Saurfang until the last day he stayed in Warsong Hold. Plus, the quote he used didn't fit with the situation and didn't have any sense there, so was just a fluff.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-09-09 at 12:24 PM.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    You are children on a playground drawing lines in the sand.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Alliance have "Indentured Pandaren." Plus, "What's worse - I fear that some villagers are being held against their will." and "No... thankfully, my children did not volunteer."

    Those cubs weren't enslaved by the Horde. They were captured as bargaining chips.

    So it looks like the Alliance are the ones enslaving children. The Horde just locked them up.
    Oh look, it's the local slobbering Horde fanboy. You know what I love most about the last couple of expansions? The way you guys have had to contort yourselves and torture logic in order to try and maintain this "scrappy underdogs downtrodden by the r-r-racist Alliance" self-image you masturbate to. I mean Sylvanas alone pretty much drags the faction into villain territory (let alone the steroid psychopath Warchief you've had for the last few years) but as soon as someone mentions it on a forum you'll have to wade through more flimsy justifications for killing civilians and maintaining WMD programs than a Syrian diplomat's press agent.

    Sure, sure, whatever. "Persuading" some "volunteers" to quit (while their kids go "Whee this was fun!" and such) is totally the same as having to rescue children that were explicitly kidnapped and threatened by a bunch of undead warlocks and shit holding them prisoner with evil floating green eyes. Whatever, it's only Aquamonkey talking. The Alliance aren't the ones having to storm their own capital and kill their own faction leader on his throne while somehow acting like they haven't been taking his orders for years.

    Keep it civil please.
    Last edited by Zaelsino; 2013-09-10 at 01:16 PM.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Too bad that Garrosh essentially bashed and treated like shit Saurfang until the last day he stayed in Warsong Hold. Plus, the quote he used didn't fit with the situation and didn't have any sense there, so was just a fluff.
    Yeah well, #Garrosh'swritingisallovertheplace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimble View Post
    Oh look, it's the local slobbering Horde fanboy. You know what I love most about the last couple of expansions? The way you guys have had to contort yourselves and torture logic in order to try and maintain this "scrappy underdogs downtrodden by the r-r-racist Alliance" self-image you masturbate to. I mean Sylvanas alone pretty much drags the faction into villain territory (let alone the steroid psychopath Warchief you've had for the last few years) but as soon as someone mentions it on a forum you'll have to wade through more flimsy justifications for killing civilians and maintaining WMD programs than a Syrian diplomat's press agent.

    Sure, sure, whatever. "Persuading" some "volunteers" to quit (while their kids go "Whee this was fun!" and such) is totally the same as having to rescue children that were explicitly kidnapped and threatened by a bunch of undead warlocks and shit holding them prisoner with evil floating green eyes. Whatever, it's only Aquamonkey talking. The Alliance aren't the ones having to storm their own capital and kill their own faction leader on his throne while somehow acting like they haven't been taking his orders for years.
    You're the one making wild exaggerations to pump up the Alliance side... All I did was slap them down with facts straight from the quests.
    • You claimed "children enslaved by the Horde." Completely false. They are held captive, not enslaved at all.
    • You claimed "persuade volunteers working for the Alliance." False. "What's worse - I fear that some villagers are being held against their will." There's a word for forced servitude, I believe it's called slavery. And guess who the Alliance are using as labor according to the quest-giver? Children.

    How are those Eye of Ga'trul threatening the cubs? All they do is watch the prisoners and look scary. Ga'trul is an orc.

    Also, the Horde forces tried to trade but the Pandaren refused. "My troops will need food, we cannot eat the corpses of drowned sailors like the disgusting undead." Obviously Ga'trul being undiplomatic and rather stupid didn't help matters.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-10 at 07:31 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Yeah well, #Garrosh'swritingisallovertheplace.
    Nope, it's just that Garrosh says a thing and thinks another, and this happened by the very beginning, like in his short-story in which he thought a thing, but said another for meet Thrall's approval. It's a common and constant theme with Garrosh as always has been.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimble View Post
    it's only Aquamonkey talking.
    It's only? If there someone that proves arguments with undeniable, hard facts it's him. Unlike your over-heated babble.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    You are children on a playground drawing lines in the sand.

  18. #198
    The answer to your question? They won't. The Orcs will not control the Horde after this.

    Okay, good thread!

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