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  1. #121
    Anyone else find it funny how every one thinks that the Orcs NEED to be in charge of the Horde? That kind of thinking makes the rest of the Horde races look pitifully weak.

  2. #122
    How can the Orcs still control the Horde after this?
    They can't. All the strongest Orcs other than the players have joined the Kor'kron and we basically slaughter them in Siege of Orgrimmar. After the siege there will only be the Orc civilian population left, and they are powerless to decide anything. The only notable Orcs left are Thrall and Saurfang/Eitrigg who did not join, but who are too old or injured.

    Basically the Orcs are in no position to lead the Horde anymore.

  3. #123
    The OP's question is actually a very serious one regarding immersion, and the plot of the game's lore has never been this confused. Two words... Milk Mode.

    It's just fluff. It's spreading butter over so much bread you can't taste the butter.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Oh, Garrosh wanting nothing to do with demonic power but willingly accepts old god power isn't a 180 of his character? It certainly doesn't fit his personality to be going around digging up powerful magical artifacts either, he's a warrior so he relies on brute strength not magic.
    Bullshit. Garrosh only do brute force when he is sure he can win.

    In ashenvale he hides his army in smoke like a rogue to ambush.
    In ashenvale he kidnaps baby Magnataurs to force their moms to fight for him.
    In ashenvale he enslaves proto drakes for his next big weapon.
    In the Barrens he has shamans enslave elementals to do his fighting for him.
    In Theremore he has a mana bomb do his fighting for him.
    In Durator he enslaves Krakens to fight the alliance fleet for him.
    In Kunlai summit he use the bell as his next big weapon.
    In Ogrimmar he uses the heart as his final weapon

    And the number one cowardly douchebag thing... In ashenvale he sends wave after waves of orcs after Varian knowing that Varian would kill them just so mr chin would be weak enough for him to have an easy victory.

    He doesn't act like a warrior, tho I don't believe the leader of the horde's answer to everything should be to charge in head long, however he hides the word honor when he never had any. Not by Orc standards or anyone else for that matter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    I hope you're aware there's the exact same quest on the horde side where you have to free children that are slaves to the alliance.
    You are really grasping if you claim the alliance one and the horde ones are the same. On the horde side we just told pandarens to walk away and they complain about working conditions. According to that link on alliance side, horde actually kidnap their kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  5. #125
    Maybe the orcs will possibly go back into the dark portal?
    =

  6. #126
    They will, be. It's called bad story telling

  7. #127
    Love watching the same couple Horde fanboys try to claim the "persuade volunteers working for the Alliance to quit" quest is somehow comparable to the "free children enslaved by the Horde" one.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimble View Post
    Love watching the same couple Horde fanboys try to claim the "persuade volunteers working for the Alliance to quit" quest is somehow comparable to the "free children enslaved by the Horde" one.
    The Alliance have "Indentured Pandaren." Plus, "What's worse - I fear that some villagers are being held against their will." and "No... thankfully, my children did not volunteer."

    Those cubs weren't enslaved by the Horde. They were captured as bargaining chips.

    So it looks like the Alliance are the ones enslaving children. The Horde just locked them up.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-08 at 08:10 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

    RPG is non-canon by default. (MickyNeilson)

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Alliance have "Indentured Pandaren." Plus, "What's worse - I fear that some villagers are being held against their will." and "No... thankfully, my children did not volunteer."

    Those cubs weren't enslaved by the Horde. They were captured as bargaining chips.

    So it looks like the Alliance are the ones enslaving children. The Horde just locked them up.

    To be fair, the Pandaren did volunteer to help a military force build an airstrip and then they were surprised when said force intended to use the airstrip as a base.

  10. #130
    Brewmaster The Iron Fist's Avatar
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    This is Chris Metzen we're talking about people. Chris mother****in' Metzen! Since when has he made a lore story that made elementary logic. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kael'Thas resurrected (again) to lead the Horde at this point.
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    Well... people here "hate" the USA and by that i mean that they would love to go there every vacation
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    Iron Fist is the epitome of "too many freedoms".
    I'll take that as a compliment.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    He's a terrible choice for the same reasons you listed because that throws out the Horde identity in favor of turning it into another Alliance. That is not something you really want to happen.

    Not only that, but if Lor'themar is seen as a puppet ruler and beholden to Alliance interests you would only end up having the Horde turn against him somewhere down the line.
    I'm not saying turn the Horde into the Alliance, I'm just saying emphasize the more sophisticated side of the Horde for a change, and merge it with the blood and honour section of the Horde. Instead of having the same old stuff we've had with the Horde for 20 years.

    Lor'themar wouldn't be an Alliance puppet. My preference is that he'd be chosen by Varian (which I would like regardless of who the next WC is.) and for him to be predisposed towards peace with the Alliance. However he would still be making his own decisions and running the Horde the way he wants to.
    "I wouldn't anticipate seeing much of doctor boom" - Trump 2014
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  12. #132
    Old God Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    You are really grasping if you claim the alliance one and the horde ones are the same. On the horde side we just told pandarens to walk away and they complain about working conditions. According to that link on alliance side, horde actually kidnap their kids.
    And indeed this behavior fits the Alliance's care for the "politicaly correct", acting in a more appealing way but in fact lying from the beginning for obtain what they wanted, since no little pandaren cub would have willingly helped them if their parents would have known the truth. The Horde at least acted less hypocritical about it, and the children have been taken in reaction of pandaren's refusal of trading with them (not even asking free help, trading).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx16 View Post
    To be fair, the Pandaren did volunteer to help a military force build an airstrip and then they were surprised when said force intended to use the airstrip as a base.
    The problem was not the "surprise!", but the little, but just little difference of the amount of hard work necessary for build an entire war base compared to a simple airstrip, reason for which they needed to keep them to work even against their will and with little to no time for rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact
    Proof:
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    no matter what I said, you would find one way or another to undermine it or ridicule it. It wasn't in the interest of fair game with you, it was vindictive and cruel, just like the description of the race you adore so much

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Only the baddies of the orcs remain and thrall.

    The orcs will fall, and the Humans will rise. Orcs VS humans is done, The Humans have clearly won
    No 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x
    Shall I be dramatic and say "You haven't heard the last of me,"?

    LIFE

    (L)ive, (I)nfluence, (F)ight, (E)njoy

  14. #134
    Lorewise Garrosh and a few of his generals and a few subordinates are gonna die not the thousands of orcs that seem to be shown in SoO

    Blizz will state that a huge majority of orcs will be against Garrosh but they cant show it ingame cause they are lazy motherfuckers

    So Thrall will come back and everyone trusts Thrall and the orc population wont even have suffered a dent cause numbers mean fuck all in wow so yeah to sum up thrall will come back things will go back to where it all started.

    Why do you guys give blizz so much credit to even think Orcs are gonna be sidelined after this?

    EDIT* Look up the Lich king to know what im saying there you have a guy we have completed face raped, His army and all his power but for some reason the scourge is STILL a threat and that we must always need a guy to take care of a few wondering zombies in the eastern plaguelands
    Last edited by trrujkgklg; 2013-09-08 at 12:19 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    Blizz has stated Gameplay > Story/Lore

    This was basically a bunch of devs thinking hey wouldn't it be cool if we could raid a major city instead of some sha of who gives a fuck or that old god who nobody can pronounce his name.

    So they all sat around and said so which one shall it be org or sw? Who is the biggest dbag garrosh or varian so they went with org and garrosh and made him 180 his character from a hothead who had honour and genuinely tried his best to a complete bloodlusting evil lunatic and make varian who was just as hotheaded into a well tempered boyscout.

    I have completely given up taking the story and lore seriously cause blizz has completely given up taking the story and lore seriously.
    My thoughts exactly the story just sucks now, it really, really sucks. I have no want to resign for SOO because the story is so bad and it will be same old same old. Thats why I said blizzard lore employees should be forced to watch redlettermedia critique the star wars prequels (best movie review ever and more entertaining than the actual movies) and learn what makes a story and how to really get people emotionally invested in a story. I really could careless about killing Garrosh since his character has taken a complete 180 turn for the sake of needing a bad guy and on top of that we kill a crap ton of orcs and the guy (horde wise) we have been with the most throughout the xpac. Great storytelling!!!!! With very little believable motivation theres really no reason to resign for SOO except connected realms seems cool but why not just merge them and why will it come out probably months after the SOO release thus defeating the purpose to resign for those of us on dead realms.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by metatation View Post
    My thoughts exactly the story just sucks now, it really, really sucks. I have no want to resign for SOO because the story is so bad and it will be same old same old. Thats why I said blizzard lore employees should be forced to watch redlettermedia critique the star wars prequels (best movie review ever and more entertaining than the actual movies) and learn what makes a story and how to really get people emotionally invested in a story. I really could careless about killing Garrosh since his character has taken a complete 180 turn for the sake of needing a bad guy and on top of that we kill a crap ton of orcs and the guy (horde wise) we have been with the most throughout the xpac. Great storytelling!!!!! With very little believable motivation theres really no reason to resign for SOO except connected realms seems cool but why not just merge them and why will it come out probably months after the SOO release thus defeating the purpose to resign for those of us on dead realms.
    I love redlettermedia and i agree so much

    This has been handled so badly and a chimp with a typewriter couldve done a better job telling the story

    Its not hard to add some quest text and a few name characters to tell us what we should care about but no we get nothing except a shoehorned in emotional crap like hey garrosh took our children when that was completely out of character and made no sense especially when he let civilians leave during the siege.

    This has been so badly mishandled and if hey you want garrosh to be a bad guy why not put some effort into it except excerpts like vol'jin sayin "Well i dont see you getting fat like his kor'kron" WOW vol'jin what a piss poor attempt to get my toon to rebel against our warchief.

    This is the shit ive been saying for ages

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    Bullshit. Garrosh only do brute force when he is sure he can win.
    Yeah, which is logical to the point where you realise that just a big mass of Frontline Grunts won't win you a war.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
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  18. #138
    There are still friendly Orc clans that always had ties with the Horde with some noticable characters. The Frostwolf Clan and Mag'har Orcs are there. It would be nice if they became more involved with the Horde, and it could fit really well IF we got the option of picking Mag'har skin color on the new character models.

  19. #139
    This is why Blizzard sense of scale and proportion pisses me off to no end, as does their unwillingness ro fully explore potential ramifications of their storylines.

    ->What about ongoing Orc migration from Outland? Garrosh himself ventured to Azeroth past TBC, why others of his kind have been swept under the carpet?

    ->What about Orc rebels joining the insurection forces? With the memories of first Horde -as hazy as they may be- still lingering as the witnesses are still alive, there HAS to be some notion among orcs that Garrosh's path would doom them all.

    ->What about other settlements? What is their relation to this power shift?

    Still, it is nowhere near as bad as how goblin survivors of Gallywix's prison ship being somehow numerous enough to not only populate a sizeable metropolis along with a district in ORG, but also deal with particularly heavy casualties and loss of life even in the early questing zones. Either Gallywix's ship had the holding capacity of a space colonization vessel, or population of Kezan has been shrunk to fit in as accessories in city boxes or we have a bad case of BS proportions and scale.

  20. #140
    Old God Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine de Coolette View Post
    ->What about ongoing Orc migration from Outland? Garrosh himself ventured to Azeroth past TBC, why others of his kind have been swept under the carpet?
    To be perfectly honest, a good bunch of Mag'har joined Garrosh in the "migration". In Stonetalon he arrives with a whole platoon of half-naked (lol) Mag'har orcs for take care of Krom'gar's men; in Silverpine there is Warlord Cromush (the one instructed of "watch" Sylvanas) and Blademaster Ishi during all the Pandaren campaign in the 5.1. And finally, the "True Horde" that supports Garrosh in the final encounter of SoO are all damn Mag'har, even that freaking engineer activating the Iron Star.

    ->What about Orc rebels joining the insurection forces? With the memories of first Horde -as hazy as they may be- still lingering as the witnesses are still alive, there HAS to be some notion among orcs that Garrosh's path would doom them all.
    The memories of the Old Horde belongs mostly to the older veterans like Saurfang and Eitrigg, the younger orcs mostly grew up in the internement camps.

    Anyway seems that someone don't understand that the orcish military power increased A LOT between Cataclysm and Tides of War, since Garrosh accepted basically all the survivors of the Dark Horde in his ranks, plus the Dragonmaw in Cataclysm, and both of them will defend Orgrimmar; the orcish army is pretty over-sized now and for this pretty powerful, and is for this increasing amount of military power that Vol'jin and Baine felt even more "hostage" of Garrosh's whims. This without considering all the Mag'har that came with Garrosh from the Outlands.

    In other words, after the Siege the orcs will have indeed some casualities but their population and power will just return to its "old standards" pre-Cata.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-09-08 at 02:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact
    Proof:
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    no matter what I said, you would find one way or another to undermine it or ridicule it. It wasn't in the interest of fair game with you, it was vindictive and cruel, just like the description of the race you adore so much

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