How can the Orcs still control the Horde after this?

[metasine]

Maybe blizzard is trying to secret justify why horde is like 40% be on all the servers. Hmmmmm.

[Rathnor The Flesher]

Maybe blizzard is trying to secret justify why horde is like 40% be on all the servers. Hmmmmm.

So to compensate, they should make Horde characters proportionally stronger. Brilliant, the way it was meant to be!

[Cosmic Janitor]

Pretty much. Whenever I find a massive lapse in logic in this game I usually just come to the most likely conclusion: The writers didn't think that far ahead.

More likely they didn't think at all in some cases.

Anyway, the whole gameplay reason crap is starting to become more and more restricting to the plot and blizzard should realize such things imho. Siege of Orgrimmar is a very bad scenario for the final stage of an expansion, because there is no logical way to explain everything that is going to happen afterwards and then change nothing ingame. I get it, gameplay (haha..) over story is their pseudo-credo, but please then don't choose settings that belittle the story so much and force your writers into a corner and leave them bad writing as the only solution.

[Beavis]

seriously, looking at these screenshots in the other thread, almost every named orc in orgrimmar (or at least the ones able to fight) is killed in this raid. NPCs of all kinds wind up evil and are killed by either the Kor'kron or the players, and we kill the Kor'kron too. Some of the best the orcish race has to offer dies, like nazgrim. Their whole military is being completely destroyed. There are NO organized orcs helping the rebel forces, except for the few npcs like Thrall and saurfang/eitrigg.

But think about it. The orcs have been utterly ruined by this. their city is screwed and SO MANY of them are dead now. even the devs describe it as "wiping out every orc in orgrimmar". how can they still be the dominant force in the horde after this?

Wow. I haven't really been paying attention to the game much over the last year, but this is the biggest shit these jack asses have taken on the lore yet. All of Warcraft 3 and WoW up until Cataclysm was about the redemption of the Orcs. Literally a decade of story telling and character building was dedicated to that story. There was even the subtle implications that the post warAlliance were kind of the baddies (internment camps, invasion of Durotar, Theramore spying etc.) Then they brought back Garrosh. But, that was ok. Even though he was obviously militant in LK, it seemed to be more representative of internal tensions in the Horde than some return to the old ways. Then Thrall leaves and he puts the worst possible choice in charge of the entire entity (why not Saurfang?,) the Orcs go back to being aggressive, and Thrall does nothing to stop it. Then in Mists, they're like full on Old Horde mode again. Of course, now there's no demon blood to blame. So, I guess that wasn't really the problem after all. Orcs are just bad after all.

It's like a story where the Germans in 2013, totally free of any kind of overt Nazi influence for decades, suddenly install a brutal dictator and go back to conquest and genocide and nobody in Germany bats an eye. They just kind of shrug and roll with it. The whole store is really kind of despicable. The message is people don't change, true redemption and reconciliation is impossible, we're all doomed to repeat our past, and if it comes to it, kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

I'm not sure if Chris Metzen or Greg Street or some other asshole is responsible for this, but fuck them.

[GKLeatherCraft]

yet, i hear many who play alliance argue that this expansion has been horde favored.

You're thinking in a vs way, Those complaining are complaining about it being a Horde flavoured expansion, the big story has been about Garrosh, the end boss is Garrosh, you know, the leader of the Horde, that's what they're complaining about, It's not the same thing as what you're thinking.

[MikeBogina]

The Humans have clearly won

Yup, it just took all the other races and some orcs to do beat the Orcs xD

[Rathnor The Flesher]

Yup, it just took all the other races and some orcs to do beat the Orcs xD

Poor Doomhammer must be rolling in his grave...

[Beavis]

Poor Doomhammer must be rolling in his grave...

Your sig is killing me, man. Pretty hilarious for heretical, traitor scum.

[Deleted]

They created the Horde. So a major mistake made by one guy that holds the power at the moment isn't enough for others to deny the orcs leadership.But maybe they will not let them and some other race will have the warchief position.

[Deleted]

I don't even know how there are so many around after the events of WC2 and WC3. I get that they bred A LOT after being confined into those internment camps and during the last decade or so, but they were utterly decimated during the Second War and the events of Beyond the Dark Portal.
They also presumably suffered important losses against the Legion during the Third War, with the Warsong Clan pretty much destroyed. How can they be so many at this point?

[Rathnor The Flesher]

I don't even know how there are so many around after the events of WC2 and WC3. I get that they bred A LOT after being confined into those internment camps and during the last decade or so, but they were utterly decimated during the Second War and the events of Beyond the Dark Portal.
They also presumably suffered important losses against the Legion during the Third War, with the Warsong Clan pretty much destroyed. How can they be so many at this point?

Especially when you consider the time between MoP and WC:OaH is less than thirty years.

[Deleted]

I find it hard to separate this problem from the gameplay thing. Ogrimmar and Garrosh are the Raids, so sure, there die a lot of orcs, still, it is a gameplay issue, that we decimate most of the orcs, yet, does that make the orcs so weak? gameplay and lore are very weird in such situations.

But also there we can see the problem of just have famous faction leaders. Nazgrim was a great way to start to focus on minor faction champions. There should be a lot more of those npcs, it would give a great deal of deph in my opinion.

[MikeBogina]

I find it hard to separate this problem from the gameplay thing. Ogrimmar and Garrosh are the Raids, so sure, there die a lot of orcs, still, it is a gameplay issue, that we decimate most of the orcs, yet, does that make the orcs so weak? gameplay and lore are very weird in such situations.

But also there we can see the problem of just have famous faction leaders. Nazgrim was a great way to start to focus on minor faction champions. There should be a lot more of those npcs, it would give a great deal of deph in my opinion.

most of the alliance major and minor npcs are humans. The Horde has a lot less than the alliance but the gnomes and undead i believe have none next to their faction leader. I remember a blizzard member saying all of their staff is human, so they're a lil bias towards making content and characters human.

Would love to see humans get the back burner for a long period in the lore.

[Trassk]

I find it hard to separate this problem from the gameplay thing. Ogrimmar and Garrosh are the Raids, so sure, there die a lot of orcs, still, it is a gameplay issue, that we decimate most of the orcs, yet, does that make the orcs so weak? gameplay and lore are very weird in such situations.

But also there we can see the problem of just have famous faction leaders. Nazgrim was a great way to start to focus on minor faction champions. There should be a lot more of those npcs, it would give a great deal of deph in my opinion.

This is what you get (and this is directed at all players who thought it be so cool to happen) for wanting all our faction war in warcraft. Characters and npcs die, and your left wondering WTF happens now? And whatever will happen won't be good enough for you.

This is what happens when you asked for that retarded faction war,

[Aquamonkey]

Even if it were just the Frostwolves, that's about as many orcs as there are Darkspear. Tauren would be the most populous Horde race in Kalimdor with their multiple tribes.

[KWC3587]

Actually I'm still at a loss as to how there could possibly even be enough orcs left to threaten the entire alliance/factional horde in the first place. The only orcs left are the ones that were on this side of the portal when it blew and then survived the camps, combined with at most 1 generation since. Even that counts on ALL the orcs siding with Garrosh, which I think we can count on at least a third not doing so if not more. The biggest weapon he has on his side is a fraction of a fraction of an old god's power, and we've taken on two already that were probably at a greater power level than the heart is at, even after it's bath in the waters of the terrace.

Even allowing for that I can only hope that: A) The reformed horde is smart enough to not put the orcs back in charge again. They've pretty much repeated if not built upon every atrocity they committed in the first war. B) The Alliance makes damn sure they tell the horde they're hanging by a much shorter rope this time, and if we ever have to do this again it'll be the last time. (Sylvanas and her kill all the living policy, I'm looking at you.) So they actually choose a warchief that isn't blind to his followers character flaws to the point that every single person he knows points them out to him on a regular basis, or is so psychotic as to make cartoon villains look absolutely subtle by comparison.

[MikeBogina]

Even if it were just the Frostwolves, that's about as many orcs as there are Darkspear. Tauren would be the most populous Horde race in Kalimdor with their multiple tribes.

Mass wise, but how many tauren exist in thunderbluff? I'd assume the numbers are the lowest of all the races being that it probably takes a squad of humans to take one down with casualties

[Trassk]

Even if it were just the Frostwolves, that's about as many orcs as there are Darkspear. Tauren would be the most populous Horde race in Kalimdor with their multiple tribes.

you forget. go to every horde based around azeroth, ashenvale, stonetalon, stonard, all over, and your find orcs there, even orcs in some towns more themed on other races, so there are loads of replacements.

[Haytham]

Has the "there can't be a horde or warchief if no orcs lead club" reported in yet ?

[Sky High]

who's to say, I would leave it up to the leaders of the other races to decide what to do with them. doubt the orcs will be in fighting shape for future conflicts after this for a while coming.