How can the Orcs still control the Horde after this?

[Archangel Tyrael]

Vol'jin is a hypocrit, he is basically the person who destroyed the Horde just so he could win an argument. If the Horde is family, why does he threaten to kill his family on multiple occasions? Nice guy you got there.

While I'm not a fan of Vol'jin, I wasn't aware that he threatened Garrosh in ''multiple occasions''.

Can you please tell me where he does so, after saying that he'll pierce Garrosh's black heart? That's the only one I know.

[Austilias]

Chances are they won't control the Horde; but then we do have Metzen at the helm of the lore team, so i'm sure they'll find some bullshit reason for still keeping Orcs in charge.

Hoping/Looking forward to Lor'themar as Warchief though.

[Aeula]

Orc's will be a minor race after this, very little will be left of their once-proud history... and it's all because of garry hellscream, it's time for a new race to take centre stage!

Lor'themar for warchief! *Holds up silvermoon flag*.

[Deleted]

Ogri will become a vassal state to the humans, who will rule over the Orcs as overlords. The next xpac will be all about the Orc underground resistance fighting to resurrect their place in the hierarchy of the world.

I lol'd to myslef.

Would be funny if it became a new Stormwind, and that the endgame raid of next Xpack would be Siege of Stormwind...

[Skit]

troll vs humans. /thread.

[Gren]

No the Orcs will not control Orgimmar it will be the Horde. Horde should just have a high council and no Warchief, times have changed.

[Itisamuh]

One orc is still worth ten of any other race, and worth twenty trolls or goblins. They could and should still be the primary race.

[IdTheDemon]

Heres my list of what I regard as all potential warchief candidates, and in order of those i most want to see get it, to the last being those i least want to see.


1 - Thrall
Obviously. This is his horde after all, the one he formed from nothing and races he brought into it, even the goblins are here because of him. He made a mistake with Garrosh, but he admits it, and even tries to rectify it. And honestly, I'd sooner have a warchief who knows how to learn from his mistakes then one who doesn't learn anything at all. plus, he knows how to treat the other races of the horde with respect.

2 - Saurfang.
Yes he's old, but really, which orc has more honor and lives as a reminders of learning from the mistakes of the past. He's honorable, fierce, hell of a fighter, and who else would you feel more like following into battle then he.

3 - Rexxar.
Rexxar is an awesome character with a lot of real honor, since he seems to think outside the box of standard orcs. The only two problems though, at that A: he's so much more of a wolverine type character, better as a loner then a leader, and B: he prefers to be in the wilds and be as wandering, and as awesome as this makes him, it doesn't give him room to be a political figure.

The following ones are those I'd not care for, but wouldn't rip into if they did become warchief.

4 - Vol'jin.
I like vol'jin, he's grown in the last year as a character, from really nothing much before this. He's got fury and does honestly care about what the horde represents, which given how looking at other troll empires and how xenophobic most trolls from those societies are, this makes vol'jin even more awesome that he sees the horde as family.
But, he isn't an orc, and can't ever represent the orcs as a leader. He also wasn't even remember until cataclysm, most forgot about him, because hes not really done anything that grand in the scheme of things, unlike other possible candidates.

5 - Baine.
Really, he's more just the younger version of cairne, but without the strong of will his father had. Now if Cairne was alive, he'd be higher on this list because Cairne really did represent the best of the horde. And there in is the problem with Baine, being how he just doesn't have that push his father did. He seems to just conform to other peoples rules when they are there, like how he conformed to Garrosh, and how he now conforms to vol'jins rebellion, he never does anything outside of this.
That said, he does have some potential to emulate his father, but outside of that, I can't see him having the balls to represent the entire horde.

and now the ones I least one to see get it.

6 - Lor'themar
much like Baine, lor'themar hasn't been regarded as anything until right at this moment. people couldn't even remember his name before mists, so its surprising just because he gets some development in 5.2 that people suddenly think he's warchief material. He does have a noble sense of protecting his own people, which I like, and is now showing he isn't prepared to stand in the background, he will fight on the front with his people. But he just doesn't fit into being the leader of such a diverse group as the horde. He is someone who is capable of working with them, but he doesn't really understand the rest, like the hardships many orcs and trolls and tauren face. Plus, him living in his sparkly city well the rest of the horde lives in barren lands and harsh terrain just doesn't make him seem capable of understanding the horde as a whole.

7 - Sylvanas
Do I need to say much about her? She's twisted, doesn't really care for any other race just wants them as backup to protect herself and maybe her people, but even they are there because she wants an army around her. She doesn't represent what the horde is, she's just tied to it for convenience, and with her plague bombing people, raising more into undeath, and generally blighting the land around her, shes more on her way to being the lich queen then a champion that represents the hordes salvation.

8 - gallywix
NOPE!
(seriously, I can't stand this little shit, I hope he dies and someone like boss Mida or sassy hardwrench becomes the goblin leader, that would make me very happy)

Great list.

Another factor for Saurfang was that he was Supreme Commander of the Might of Kalimdor, the joint Alliance-Horde army to fight against C'thun's army. It was the first time the Alliance and Horde teamed up lore-wise since the Battle for Mount Hyjal so there is definitely some respect for him from the Alliance. If there's anyone else other than Thrall who will lead the Horde with battle alongside the Alliance against the greater evil with little Alliance quarrel, it's Saurfang.

Personally, I'd love to see Rexxar as Warchief. It's ironic that you say he's a Wolverine type character because in the last few years due to personal tragedies, Wolverine became a leader for the X-Men and leads a large separate team of X-men. He also reformed the Xavier School and is both Headmaster and a teacher. Perhaps seeing the Horde teared in half and causing the death of innocent Alliance and Horde civilians can draw Rexxar out from hiding?

But if must be Thrall who leads, I don't want him looking like a homeless shaman with prayer beads. I know he had to forsake all possessions as part of his shaman training, but he's finished with that whole "becoming the super shaman of the world" storyline, but Thrall's armor and especially Doomhammer were symbols of the Thrall's Horde when it was his, and right now some old school symbolism is what the Horde needs.

As for the Orc population issue, lore-wise it will just be that the majority of Garrosh's Orcs who were killed were from the Dragonmaw or from the Kor'Kron.

[Deleted]

My personal list of potential Warchiefs, in order of how much I'd like them (Not necessarily in order of likelyhood.):

Lor'themar Theron: Clearly a controversial choice around here, but personally I think it'd be a brilliant move. If it is indeed Varian choosing the New Warchief for the Horde Lor'themar is a logical choice, as the Blood Elf culture is more in line with the general Alliance culture and they have been shown to have a favourable disposition towards the Alliance. I also think that this is a grand opportunity to send the Horde in a new direction rather than repeating the same old Blood and Honour, Orcs vs. Humans routine that we've had for 20 years. I think Lor'themar would be a good leader and an interesting story choice.

Baine Bloodhoof: Sadly Baine has had little build up during MOP so I consider this an unlikely option, but I think that he makes a lot of sense as a potential Warchief. The Tauren are normally positively predisposed to the Alliance and Baine has close personal ties with Anduin, perfect for fostering peace. He is a good and benevolent ruler, though he does lack a fair bit of fire.

Vol'jin: Perhaps the most obvious choice because of the amount he's been built up, however his obviousness sort of takes away a fair bit of the excitement. He strikes a good balance between the good and honourable traits he's picked up from Thrall, and being pragmatic and distrusting of the Alliance so there'll still be plenty of tension. It could be argued however that he is more one to work from the shadows.

Saurfang: Probably about equal to Vol'jin in terms of my preferences. He's old, but he's wise and honourable and still a great warrior. He has Thrall's strong sense of moral's and honour without being such a peace loving hippie. He's got grit and metal and isn't going to let the Alliance walk over him. He didn't want the position last time though, so given a choice I don't think he'd take it this time.

Ji Firepaw: Quite a way below Saurfang in terms of both likelyhood and how much I want him to be Warchief. It's most certainly not going to happen and I think my reaction would be rather bemused if it did. Nonetheless, Ji has strong ties with the Alliance due to the other Pandaren, yet is still fierce and quick acting, so given the chance I think he'd actually appeal quite a bit to the rest of the Horde. An odd, but interesting candidate.

Thrall: Please no. We had enough of Thrall in Cataclysm, and personally I much prefer him to stay in the background tending to the elements, and lending his aid when necessary. It's not that I think he'd be a bad leader, I think he'd be a good one. Mostly I feel that having Thrall back would be repetitive. Why waste such a great opportunity to reinvent the Horde by reverting to the same type of Horde we had in Vanilla?

Sylvanas: I'm really not a big Sylvanas fan. I think she's a good enough villain, but I think making her Warchief would be illogical, and would be dooming the Horde to a repeat of SoO. She destined to be a raid boss in the future.

Gallywix: Yeah..No.

[psychok9]

In fact it is completely absurd!, as it is absurd that humans then leave the city without expecting/ask for anything!

Wow. I haven't really been paying attention to the game much over the last year, but this is the biggest shit these jack asses have taken on the lore yet. All of Warcraft 3 and WoW up until Cataclysm was about the redemption of the Orcs. Literally a decade of story telling and character building was dedicated to that story. There was even the subtle implications that the post warAlliance were kind of the baddies (internment camps, invasion of Durotar, Theramore spying etc.) Then they brought back Garrosh. But, that was ok. Even though he was obviously militant in LK, it seemed to be more representative of internal tensions in the Horde than some return to the old ways. Then Thrall leaves and he puts the worst possible choice in charge of the entire entity (why not Saurfang?,) the Orcs go back to being aggressive, and Thrall does nothing to stop it. Then in Mists, they're like full on Old Horde mode again. Of course, now there's no demon blood to blame. So, I guess that wasn't really the problem after all. Orcs are just bad after all.

It's like a story where the Germans in 2013, totally free of any kind of overt Nazi influence for decades, suddenly install a brutal dictator and go back to conquest and genocide and nobody in Germany bats an eye. They just kind of shrug and roll with it. The whole store is really kind of despicable. The message is people don't change, true redemption and reconciliation is impossible, we're all doomed to repeat our past, and if it comes to it, kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

I'm not sure if Chris Metzen or Greg Street or some other asshole is responsible for this, but fuck them.

In one of the first quests of the Alliance, in Pandaria, you must free the kidnapped children panda from horde!
Yeah, but they are good... and some panda join horde...

[Sting]

In one of the first quests of the Alliance, in Pandaria, you must free the kidnapped children panda from horde!
Yeah, but they are good... and some panda join horde...

I hope you're aware there's the exact same quest on the horde side where you have to free children that are slaves to the alliance.

[Florena]

Wow. I haven't really been paying attention to the game much over the last year, but this is the biggest shit these jack asses have taken on the lore yet. All of Warcraft 3 and WoW up until Cataclysm was about the redemption of the Orcs. Literally a decade of story telling and character building was dedicated to that story. There was even the subtle implications that the post warAlliance were kind of the baddies (internment camps, invasion of Durotar, Theramore spying etc.) Then they brought back Garrosh. But, that was ok. Even though he was obviously militant in LK, it seemed to be more representative of internal tensions in the Horde than some return to the old ways. Then Thrall leaves and he puts the worst possible choice in charge of the entire entity (why not Saurfang?,) the Orcs go back to being aggressive, and Thrall does nothing to stop it. Then in Mists, they're like full on Old Horde mode again. Of course, now there's no demon blood to blame. So, I guess that wasn't really the problem after all. Orcs are just bad after all.

It's like a story where the Germans in 2013, totally free of any kind of overt Nazi influence for decades, suddenly install a brutal dictator and go back to conquest and genocide and nobody in Germany bats an eye. They just kind of shrug and roll with it. The whole store is really kind of despicable. The message is people don't change, true redemption and reconciliation is impossible, we're all doomed to repeat our past, and if it comes to it, kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

I'm not sure if Chris Metzen or Greg Street or some other asshole is responsible for this, but fuck them.

I don't see it as 'people don't change and redemption is impossible' but rather redeeming a people takes time, and that the past CAN be repeated if you allow it to be, not that it's guaranteed to. It's also only been one generation since the orcs invaded Azeroth, and even less time since the relative peace that came after WC 3.

[psychok9]

I hope you're aware there's the exact same quest on the horde side where you have to free children that are slaves to the alliance.

Can you link me?
Thanks a lot... (2x more absurd...!)

[stomination]

Can you link me?
Thanks a lot... (2x more absurd...!)

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=31778

in this quest the horde is sent to "rescue" pandaren who volunteered to help the alliance build something. It ended up being an airbase and the pandas did not want to make but were instead forced into indentured servitude. This also included children.

[Zulkhan]

Vol'jin is a hypocrit, he is basically the person who destroyed the Horde just so he could win an argument. If the Horde is family, why does he threaten to kill his family on multiple occasions? Nice guy you got there.

Yeah, letting Garrosh turning Azeroth in Outland 2.0 was the solution indeed.

You should set down your bullshit-gun sometimes, you know?

While I'm not a fan of Vol'jin, I wasn't aware that he threatened Garrosh in ''multiple occasions''.

Can you please tell me where he does so, after saying that he'll pierce Garrosh's black heart? That's the only one I know.

He never did it again, and even when he did it there was little seriousness about it. But no matter how many times someone repeat over and over again this undeniable fact, Hardstyler will continue to say "he threatened Garrosh multiple times !!1!1!!!11!!". Blindess and favoritism to its most powerful embodiment.

[Aquamonkey]

I mean in lore Varian could probably wipe out the entirety of the Horde shortly after finishing Garrosh (it wouldn't be easy, but still very possible).

Wrathion says it would take over a year just for Thunder Bluff and result in massive casualties.

[arcaneshot]

My personal list of potential Warchiefs, in order of how much I'd like them (Not necessarily in order of likelyhood.):

Lor'themar Theron: Clearly a controversial choice around here, but personally I think it'd be a brilliant move. If it is indeed Varian choosing the New Warchief for the Horde Lor'themar is a logical choice, as the Blood Elf culture is more in line with the general Alliance culture and they have been shown to have a favourable disposition towards the Alliance. I also think that this is a grand opportunity to send the Horde in a new direction rather than repeating the same old Blood and Honour, Orcs vs. Humans routine that we've had for 20 years. I think Lor'themar would be a good leader and an interesting story choice.

He's a terrible choice for the same reasons you listed because that throws out the Horde identity in favor of turning it into another Alliance. That is not something you really want to happen.

Not only that, but if Lor'themar is seen as a puppet ruler and beholden to Alliance interests you would only end up having the Horde turn against him somewhere down the line.

[Lastlivingsoul]

Anyone else find it funny how every one thinks that the Orcs NEED to be in charge of the Horde? That kind of thinking makes the rest of the Horde races look pitifully weak.

[corebit]

How can the Orcs still control the Horde after this?

They can't. All the strongest Orcs other than the players have joined the Kor'kron and we basically slaughter them in Siege of Orgrimmar. After the siege there will only be the Orc civilian population left, and they are powerless to decide anything. The only notable Orcs left are Thrall and Saurfang/Eitrigg who did not join, but who are too old or injured.

Basically the Orcs are in no position to lead the Horde anymore.

[Superchief]

The OP's question is actually a very serious one regarding immersion, and the plot of the game's lore has never been this confused. Two words... Milk Mode.

It's just fluff. It's spreading butter over so much bread you can't taste the butter.