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  1. #161
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Infact, I seem to remember one of the devs saying this, that it was all garrosh's plan to test the bomb out.
    Not excatly, Garrosh had zero interests in drop a bomb in a school full of druid novices. Krom'gar acted by his own because he was a complete moron, the original plan was to drop the bomb on the night elven outpost, but gnomish flying machines and artillery pretty backed up the said plan. Indeed if it wasn't for that, we would have seen a mini-Theramore event already in Cataclysm, but Garrosh have litterally to thanks to have appointed a general retarded like Krom'gar that in fact made him looks like a big hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Blizzard could have gone the opposite route, like they did with Varian, and have Garrosh learn and grow as a character instead of slide into evil. If you don't think it was POSSIBLE for blizzard to do that you're letting your hate for Garrosh blind you. I'm not saying he's a good guy. I'm not saying there's any hope for redemption for him now. But back in Cata, there WAS that chance that he could have learned. I don't think he's OOC in Mists, all I'm saying is there's more than one path his character could have taken, and blizz chose the 'evil' path for him.
    I partially agree. If they wanted, Garrosh was still "reedamble" in Cataclysm as a character. Problem is, they never wanted that from the beginning, they had clearly in mind what to do with him like they had clear ideas about what to do with Varian. They left both in game and in novels many foreshadowing hints that Garrosh could have taken the worst path, mostly because this was their plan for him by ever.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...

  2. #162
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    ....They just said that his development was a straight line. That doesn't mean Garrosh was always as bad as he is now.
    It does however mean he was always set to go down this path, despite people believing he would do otherwise.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    oh yes, and Arthas could have learned from his killing of civilians in stratholme, and not carried on his insane pursuit of malganis, leading to his finding of frostmourne.

    But you know what.. it happened. This thing with Garrosh, it happened, so please stop trying to cast it off as what could have happened, and learn to deal with the fact Garrosh was always set on the path to be the bad guy. The devs themselves even say this now.
    Umm, I'm not in denial that Garrosh is a scumbag, or that blizz intended him to become a villain. All I'm saying is that in Cata, there was from the players perspective who don't know the inner thoughts and plans of blizzard, hope that he would straighten out, become a more honorable orc and become a respectable Warchief. Obviously that didn't happen, and I'm not making excuses for Garrosh. It wouldn't be the first redemption story where a flawed leader becomes better. And I'm not pining for an honorable Garrosh to return to us, I'm looking forward to killing him in SoO. I'm not a Garrosh fanboy I'm just pointing out there was a point in time where he did have potential to learn and grow.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  4. #164
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    ....They just said that his development was a straight line. That doesn't mean Garrosh was always as bad as he is now.
    Indeed. He always had his red flags, but became a lot worse over time, anyway proving that in fact something about him has never been absolutely "alright".
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-09-08 at 06:39 PM.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Infact, I seem to remember one of the devs saying this, that it was all garrosh's plan to test the bomb out.
    You mean this non-canon response?
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Made an acc to ask you this, WAS Garrosh behind Stonetalon's bombing? Kosak's answer was really up to interpretation. GJ btw
    My assumption is he was, but that's my interpretation and not a canon answer. (Source)
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-08 at 06:41 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Not excatly, Garrosh had zero interests in drop a bomb in a school full of druid novices. Krom'gar acted by his own because he was a complete moron, the original plan was to drop the bomb on the night elven outpost, but gnomish flying machines and artillery pretty backed up the said plan. Indeed if it wasn't for that, we would have seen a mini-Theramore event already in Cataclysm, but Garrosh have litterally to thanks to have appointed a general retarded like Krom'gar that in fact made him looks like a big hero.



    I partially agree. If they wanted, Garrosh was still "reedamble" in Cataclysm as a character. Problem is, they never wanted that from the beginning, they had clearly in mind what to do with him like they had clear ideas about what to do with Varian. They left both in game and in novels many foreshadowing hints that Garrosh could have taken the worst path, mostly because this was their plan for him by ever.
    I don't disagree with this. I don't doubt they intended to make him a villain as of Cata, I'm only saying that the character wasn't beyond redemption at that point yet.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  7. #167
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    I don't disagree with this. I don't doubt they intended to make him a villain as of Cata, I'm only saying that the character wasn't beyond redemption at that point yet.
    thats kind of like hoping the match you strike in a gunpowder chamber doesn't make it explode around you.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    You mean this non-canon response?
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Made an acc to ask you this, WAS Garrosh behind Stonetalon's bombing? Kosak's answer was really up to interpretation. GJ btw
    My assumption is he was, but that's my interpretation and not a canon answer. (Source)
    That genius in the twitter pretty made the right question to the wrong person.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...

  9. #169
    So far as I'm concerned making Garrosh behind the Stonetalon bombing, or at the least not as concerned about the loss of innocent lives than he first appeared is nothing more than a shameless retcon to make us hate Garrosh more and justify his abrupt turn into irredeemable evil. And quite frankly it was an unnecessary retcon. Why exactly did Garrosh have to become a mustache twirling villain to become MOP's Big Bad. I can see Cataclysm Garrosh grown desperate resorting to the use of the Sha and bringing the Alliance and Horde down on him and personally I think it would have been a lot more interesting.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    So far as I'm concerned making Garrosh behind the Stonetalon bombing, or at the least not as concerned about the loss of innocent lives than he first appeared is nothing more than a shameless retcon to make us hate Garrosh more and justify his abrupt turn into irredeemable evil. And quite frankly it was an unnecessary retcon. Why exactly did Garrosh have to become a mustache twirling villain to become MOP's Big Bad. I can see Cataclysm Garrosh grown desperate resorting to the use of the Sha and bringing the Alliance and Horde down on him and personally I think it would have been a lot more interesting.
    When you take the extended universe material, novels and short stories to be precise, I don't really think Garrosh's descent was really out of nowhere.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  11. #171
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    When you take the extended universe material, novels and short stories to be precise, I don't really think Garrosh's descent was really out of nowhere.
    Exactly, Garrosh was always willing to do what was necessary, he constantly talked about honor, but discarded it immediately if it suited his needs.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  12. #172
    It would cause additional game design issues. That's why.

    Remember... Blizzard game developer design will always dictate lore logic, not the other way around.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Exactly, Garrosh was always willing to do what was necessary, he constantly talked about honor, but discarded it immediately if it suited his needs.
    The only case in which Garrosh truly displayed "honor" in practice terms was in Heart of War, where he bashed Blackscar about the ambush in the Broken Front.

    But in fact, he did it so only because he felt on himself the pressure of both Thrall's and Saurfang's judgement, and while Thrall bursted out immediatily saying something like "this is a shameful and cowardly act!", Garrosh thought with himself something like "In the end, has been a good thing that the Alliance didn't get Mor'dethar". Just figure out.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    When you take the extended universe material, novels and short stories to be precise, I don't really think Garrosh's descent was really out of nowhere.
    It's not out of nowhere I agree. Even just playing the game it's there. I just feel that as of MOP (or rather Tides of War though I haven't read that) he takes a rather sharp turn that could have been developed more smoothly I feel.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    It's not out of nowhere I agree. Even just playing the game it's there. I just feel that as of MOP (or rather Tides of War though I haven't read that) he takes a rather sharp turn that could have been developed more smoothly I feel.
    It could have been done better, I agree. I just don't agree with the people spouting "Garrosh was always 100% irredeemably evil" or "this came out of nowhere." I think it's a middle ground.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    It's not out of nowhere I agree. Even just playing the game it's there. I just feel that as of MOP (or rather Tides of War though I haven't read that) he takes a rather sharp turn that could have been developed more smoothly I feel.
    I don't know, Garrosh in Tides of War didn't just seem to become another kind of person or suddenly becoming an extremist, when you actually read the novel you just understand two things that pretty changed compared to Cataclysm:

    1- Garrosh is smarter and almost cool-headed in some things, but displays a more cynical attitude. All of this could be easily explained with him, in fact, learning some tricks or two about how to be a "smart" leader, even if this for him meant just using a lot of deception and faked respect for the allies that in fact never seriously respected by the beginning, just for obtain what he wanted;

    2- Garrosh is very full of himself in the novel, pretty egocentric and arrogant in a way which is pretty a step forward compared to Garrosh in Cata (that already shown signs of reckless arrogance and dictatorial attitudes). This seems just Garrosh becoming more aware of his effective power, that now was pretty huge thanks to all the Blackrock orcs like Malkorok that he added inside the Horde, which gave him enough military power to litterally "keep in hostage" his nearby allies.
    His new advisor, Malkorok, gave him also the need of support and validation that Garrosh always desired, and Malkorok himself gave to Garrosh many "ideas" about how to effectively "keep in check" not only the Horde leaders but every member of the Horde, orcs included.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-09-08 at 08:36 PM.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...

  17. #177
    The Patient Paladinne1's Avatar
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    Because it's a game and the creators can give power to whomsoever they wish. Real politics would rarely apply here. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
    [sic]

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladinne1 View Post
    Because it's a game and the creators can give power to whomsoever they wish. Real politics would rarely apply here. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
    When the explanation is "because the writer said so, logic doesn't matter" then that's a poorly written story.

  19. #179
    I hope they wont, But blizzard have multipel times said " gameplay is more importen then lore" so even if orcs are always the main army, so most orcs have died, AND many orcs have joined Garrosh, somehow they are still the main force of the horde, and therefor they will still be in control.
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  20. #180
    The Patient Paladinne1's Avatar
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    I hope they wont, But blizzard have multipel times said " gameplay is more importen then lore" so even if orcs are always the main army, so most orcs have died, AND many orcs have joined Garrosh, somehow they are still the main force of the horde, and therefor they will still be in control.
    This pretty much explains it.
    [sic]

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