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  1. #141
    I think Brann Bronzebeard is pretty bad ass. He only shows up when there are god scale problems. Everything else is beneath him. The fact that he spends mists hanging out in a museum is pretty telling though.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Tyrande will have her day.
    I don't remember who said, probably Kosak or Metzen, that she'll have her time to shine in the future, although not saying precisely when, but let's be optimistic and say it'll be next expansion. So, along with Alleria and Turalyon, that makes it three alliance badasses coming back

  3. #143
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    On the subject of Tyrande:

    I know a lot of people are arguing that she came off as "stupid" in the "kings trial" scenario... and I'd agree.


    All Blizzard would have needed to do was say that the Horde forces were holding a band of Darnassus sentinels captive. The sentinels were the Alliance's main force in inland Krasarang, after all. BOOM, suddenly Tyrande becomes justified in her outrage.

    It would have been so easy...
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Need Turalyon to come back and start kicking asses and taking names.

    Not some "neutral hero" crap like all the other Alliance Champions end up becoming...
    He's too awesome to not be neutral. If he went home those zombies would throw him a parade and welcome him back. Aside from that, both his people and Alleria's are all horde now.

  5. #145
    Scarab Lord Kazomir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That's because Japan and Germany surrendered unconditionally.

    As for 5.4, the Rebellion isn't surrendering to the Alliance, they are partners. If the Alliance didn't negotiate terms for the partnership beforehand, they have no right to hold them hostage and demand things after the fact.
    They do, this right is called Strenght in Numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  6. #146
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    He's too awesome to not be neutral. If he went home those zombies would throw him a parade and welcome him back. Aside from that, both his people and Alleria's are all horde now.
    He fought for the preservation of Southshore and Hillsbrad. Almost all of the people that lived there have now been killed by the Forsaken. He fought off the Orcs in Lordaeron city, and now finds that said zombies that have since murdered his countrymen in Southshore and Hillsbrad not only CONTROL the city, but also ALLOW the orcs to come and go through a destroyed Lordaeron as they please.

    And this is a guy who HATES orcs. A guy who basically ascended into god-mode level paladin BECAUSE he hated orcs so much.


    He wouldn't be all "smiles and sunshine" with the horde.

    And as for Alleria... she and Turalyon have likely been fighting Demons in the twisting nether for the past decade or so. Not only would she still 1) hate the Orcs with a passion but 2) Probably not be wild with throwing her lot in with the glowing green-eyed formerly demonic-magic-aligned Blood elves, ESPECIALLY when the High Elves (including her sister) are still kicking around... and further considering that said blood elves have again helped the Orcs commit terrible acts of warfare, one of which directly lead to the death of her sister's husband.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-09-02 at 08:07 PM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by colossus127 View Post
    And thats not blatant alliance favoritism right there either right? I love how hypocritical and oxymoron alliance players are.
    Your ignorance is leaking out your fingers, might want to have that checked (and consult a dictionary while you're out).

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus127 View Post
    "Oh wah, Horde has EVERYTHING, I think to make it equal we should get 75% of the land." Ya that makes it real equal and how many Horde players have you seen bitch about the Org raid? But the one guy who is a huge Garrosh fanboy on this site NO ONE! We are all happy to raid our OWN main city, but if it were reversed and we were raiding Stormwind, there would be a shit storm of complaints from Alliance players.
    Probably because most Horde players hate Garrosh and what he's doing to the horde and are glad to have him out of power? If Alliance set up camp and occupied Orgrimmar like they should (like I'm damned sure Horde would do if Varian was the one going Coo-coo for Cocoa puffs), I'm sure every single horde player on this board would be bitching and moaning until Blizzard changed it to the current laughably unrealistic implementation of just abandoning the ground we've fought, bled, and died to conquer. Make no mistake: the Alliance is in the position of power at the end of the day, not Vol'Jin's handful of savages.

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus127 View Post
    I think its more or less like this, Alliance characters are just mad that all their friends and all the "cool" people play Horde. So they have this mental state that makes them think they are an underdog or something. Even though lore clearly states they are much larger and more organized then the Horde is. Alliance just want it all, Ive been playing for 6 years now nearly and there hasnt been one patch the Alliance didnt bitch about.
    Exactly. The Alliance is much larger and more organized. How the FUCK does the Horde contend with that? Basically in-game, we've got the likes of Korea (successfully) holding off China. That's fucking retarded.

    EDIT: Not just successfully holding off, but taking land from. Ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus127 View Post
    Hell, in one of the greatest scenes ever, one of our Warlords promising sons gets killed by The Lich King and the Alliance counterpart, Bolvar, gets imbued with Dragon flight and Lich King powers. An alliance character(Tirion) kills Arthas and then another alliance character saves the day and all of humanity from oblivion(Bolvar) AND THEY STILL BITCHED!
    Uh, no. In "one of the greatest cutscenes ever," one of your Warlords promising sons gets killed by The Lich King and the Alliance counterpart, Bolvar, dis-a-fucking-pears. We don't know WTF happened to him. Was he incinerated by the Red Dragon Flame? Did the LK actually abscond with his body, too? We don't know! Not at that point anyway. Not to mention the betrayal of Putress and the knowing that Saurfang the Lesser died are much stronger emotional content for Horde.

    Tirion is not an Alliance character. He's a neutral character. Just like all his Argent Dawn/Crusade. If he was an Alliance character, he wouldn't have hosted a tournament inviting the Horde to participate. Bolvar... Isn't human anymore. I really don't think we've seen the last of him. Though I expect ICC 2.0 to be handled in books rather than in-game. Then again, "setbacks" and recycled content aren't exactly strangers to Blizzard.

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus127 View Post
    I think thats something Alliance will just always continue to do better then the Horde, bitch.
    I dunno, if so, you're running a damned close second.
    Last edited by PetersenIII; 2013-09-02 at 08:11 PM.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    They do, this right is called Strenght in Numbers.
    Who says hey have superior numbers at the siege?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    He fought for the preservation of Southshore and Hillsbrad. Almost all of the people that lived there have now been killed by the Forsaken. He fought off the Orcs in Lordaeron city, and now finds that said zombies that have since murdered his countrymen in Southshore and Hillsbrad not only CONTROL the city, but also ALLOW the orcs to come and go through a destroyed Lordaeron as they please.

    And this is a guy who HATES orcs. A guy who basically ascended into god-mode level paladin BECAUSE he hated orcs so much.


    He wouldn't be all "smiles and sunshine" with the horde.

    And as for Alleria... she and Turalyon have likely been fighting Demons in the twisting nether for the past decade or so. Not only would she still 1) hate the Orcs with a passion but 2) Probably not be wild with throwing her lot in with the glowing green-eyed formerly demonic-magic-aligned Blood elves, ESPECIALLY when the High Elves (including her sister) are still kicking around... and further considering that said blood elves have again helped the Orcs commit terrible acts of warfare, one of which directly lead to the death of her sister's husband.
    You've taken a lot of editorial freedom with your description of Turalyon. He fought for peace and the preservation of Azeroth. He knocked Blackhand unconcious, routed the horde to the dark portal and followed them over to make sure the portal stayed closed rather than to wipe them out. Though in fairness, with how Jaina has been handled recently, you're probably right, he'd go murder crazy and eat babies for the light.

  10. #150
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Who says hey have superior numbers at the siege?
    The Alliance would just have to sit back, let the horde and Kor'kron smash against eachother, then roll in the entirety of the Alliance army after the dust settles and order the remaining forces to surrender.

    But that would be too "mean" for the Alliance.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The Alliance would just have to sit back, let the horde and Kor'kron smash against eachother, then roll in the entirety of the Alliance army after the dust settles and order the remaining forces to surrender.

    But that would be too smart for the Alliance.
    "Fixed" as they say.

  12. #152
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    You've taken a lot of editorial freedom with your description of Turalyon. He fought for peace and the preservation of Azeroth. He knocked Blackhand unconcious, routed the horde to the dark portal and followed them over to make sure the portal stayed closed rather than to wipe them out. Though in fairness, with how Jaina has been handled recently, you're probably right, he'd go murder crazy and eat babies for the light.
    He was finally able to wield the light because he basically came to the realization that "Orcs have no right to live on Azeroth."

    And then lump that on top of their allegiance with the forces that have since decimated his homeland and allow the orcs to traipse through there with impunity. That's basically spitting in the face of almost everything he fought to protect. And then imagine he learns of what Garrosh did? That'd just compound the notion that the orcs, and anyone they ally with, can't be trusted even to this day.


    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    "Fixed" as they say.
    The only reason they aren't doing it is because showing the repercussions of that would mean we wouldn't get a new leveling zone, or something.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The Alliance would just have to sit back, let the horde and Kor'kron smash against eachother, then roll in the entirety of the Alliance army after the dust settles and order the remaining forces to surrender.
    Only problem with that theory is we now know that the rebellion wouldn't be able to breach the gates of Orgrimmar, which either means Orgrimmar stands until Garrosh is done with whatever he's doing with the Heart or the Kor'kron somehow lose their patience and give up their defensive position in a manner similar to "A Little Patience."

    The actual problem the Alliance is facing is since Garrosh picked up the Heart they're on crunch time; waiting on their end is not going to help anymore.

  14. #154
    Horde has badass characters? think you either live in WC3 or delusioning. We HAD badass champions, most of them just went MIA or killed.. I dare you to name 1, (just one) badass horde who will stay alive during and after patch 5.4 which the horde also will work with .. Good luck with that search!

  15. #155
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restors View Post
    Horde has badass characters? think you either live in WC3 or delusioning. We HAD badass champions, most of them just went MIA or killed.. I dare you to name 1, (just one) badass horde who will stay alive during and after patch 5.4 which the horde also will work with .. Good luck with that search!
    I don't believe Saurfang dies in 5.4. And people seem to consider Sylvannas bad ass for whatever reason.

    And apparently they're trying to make Gamon a non-joke character now.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The Alliance would just have to sit back, let the horde and Kor'kron smash against eachother, then roll in the entirety of the Alliance army after the dust settles and order the remaining forces to surrender.

    But that would be too "mean" for the Alliance.
    Or without the Alliance, the rebellion gets crushed outright. Remember the part where the Darkspear rebellion can't even last a few days without Alliance support? Then without the Trolls to unite them, the Tauren/BElves/Forsaken stream in un-unified and similarly get crushed. Or some of them cave and never actually turn against Garrosh. Or the Horde factions in EK can sit back too and let the Alliance deal with Garrosh since that is his primary target.

    With everybody just sitting back on EK and the ineffective rebellion crushed, Garrosh can attack the NElves like he intended. Psure the Alliance wouldn't like that. The Tauren would be crushed too, but it's not like the Trolls would still be around to care and the BElves/Forsaken wouldn't really care either.

    Oh, ya got anudda plan? I got anudda plan, too. I let ya siege Orgrimmar on ya own. See how far ya get. An' once da city be filled wit' corpses, den me shadow hunters come in, we mop up what left, kill Kor'kron an Alliance alike. Give ya dead ta Sylvanas. Hmm! I save a lot a Darkspear lives wit' dis plan!
    Mmnn? You don't like? Then, we stay wit' da fist plan. We work together.
    We don't even have ta like each other.
    Gossip [Call his bluff] Why don't WE wait until YOU attack Orgrimmar, then mop up YOUR dead?
    <Vol'jin sees his opportunity slipping away. He holds up his hands.>
    Wait now, <race>! Orgrimmar be a fortress. My people, we ain't gonna crack dat nut on our own. How long we gonna last out here? Days? Weeks? Vol'jin can't say.
    You keep da supplies comin, an' I promise, more Kor'kron gonna die. Before ya troops even land! The blood bein' spilt ain't even ya own! Surely dat be worth a few crates of meat?

    Vol'jin's bluff only applies to his little band of Trolls. The rest of the Horde (especially in EK) can afford to sit back and wait for the Alliance to smash into Garrosh.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-02 at 08:32 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  17. #157
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriousBastard View Post
    I've been an Alliance for a long time, my loyalties have been to the High King and to the High King only. And I too believed that Blizzard favored the Horde, that is until, I sat back in my chair, and pondered upon the question: ''What if the Alliance just isn't interesting?'' And thus, I abandoned the Alliance and swore my eternal allegiance to the Horde, Thrall's Horde, that is.

    Roleplay nonesense aside though, below is a list of Alliance and Horde activity from Cata to MoP, which you can skip, of course:

    Horde Gilneas invaded by Horde
    Horde Silverwind Refuge captured by Horde
    Horde Southshore destroyed by Horde
    Horde Hillsbrad Fields destroyed by Horde
    Alliance Gilneas liberated by Alliance
    Alliance Forsaken Forward Command destroyed by Alliance
    Alliance Fenris Keep conquered by Alliance
    Horde Pyrewood Village destroyed by Horde
    Horde Ambermill captured by Horde
    Neutral Andorhal conquered by Alliance and Horde
    Horde Andorhal conquered completely by Horde
    Horde Azshara conquered by Horde
    Horde Talrendis Point assaulted by Horde
    Alliance Mor'shan Rampart assaulted by Alliance
    Alliance Warsong Lumbercamp assulted by the Alliance
    Alliance Shaol'Watha assulted by the Alliance
    Alliance Forsaken attack on Quel'Danil reppled
    Horde Northwatch Hold assaulted by Horde
    Alliance Honor's Stand captured by Alliance
    Alliance Camp Taurajo destroyed by Alliance
    Alliance Stonard assaulted by Alliance
    Horde Nethergarde Mines assaulted by Horde
    Horde Bael'dun Keep destroyed by Horde
    Horde Thal'darah Grove destroyed by Horde
    Alliance Shatterspear Vale destroyed by Alliance
    Horde Northwatch Hold captured by Horde
    Horde Fort Triumph destroyed by Horde
    Horde Theramore Isle destroyed by Horde
    Alliance Northwatch Hold recaptured by Alliance
    Horde Thunder Hold captured by Horde
    Horde Strongarm Airstrip destroyed by Horde
    Horde Scenic Overlook Camp destroyed by Horde
    Alliance Garrosh'ar Point destroyed by Alliance
    Alliance Twinspire Keep captured by Alliance
    Alliance Temple of the Red Crane liberated by Alliance
    Alliance Lion's Landing secured by Alliance
    Horde Domination Point secured by Horde
    Alliance Dalaran joins Alliance and expels Horde
    Alliance Destruction of the Divine Bell
    Darkspear Rebellion erupts in Echo Isles.
    Razor Hill captured by Vol'jin and Thunder Bluff liberated from Garrosh.
    Northern Barrens assaulted by the Alliance and the Darkspear Rebellion.
    Heart of Y'Shaarj resurrected by the Pools of Power, Vale of Eternal Blossoms scarred, Sha of Pride unleashed.
    Horde rebel and Alliance armada assaults the Bladefist Bay
    Siege of Orgrimmar begins

    As you can see, both are fairly equal. What the Alliance lacks, is character development, but how do you develop characters that are so mundane and generic? The game critic Yathzee touched upon this subject in one of his videos, he said, and I quote: ''The word "fantasy" is supposed to evoke any wondrous scenario the imagination can conjure, but for some reason we keep coming back to the elves and dwarves! Elves and dwarves, elves and dwarves, elves and motherfucking dwarves. Also wizards.'' See, the Alliance races have just gotten so painfully generic, almost every fantasy MMO I can think of has these races in them. And they are almost always the same: Humans are white knighty-bastards, dwarves are short bearded blacksmithy-bastards, elves are naturelovery-bastards, and gnomes are tinkery- sneakery-bastards, and these are just the norms we have begun to expect of these races, where as the races of the Horde are slightly more abstract and unique which gives developers more freedom when writing lore for them.

    TLDR: Horde are innovative and give writers more space and flexibility when writing, Alliance, not so much, their races are used in every fantasy almost and are always the same, dwarves are always blacksmiths for example.
    The draenei are preety unique yet they get no screentime.
    The worgen are rather unique, intelligent werewolves.
    The night elves, while elves, are fairly unique and they've only been turned to nature loving hippies in WoW, while in WC3 they weren't that.

    Bottom line is, it isn't the races that are boring, it's how they are handled. I could apply your reasoning to the Horde as well, in the end, just think about it, orcs, trolls, undead, elves, goblins, all these races are encountered in other games yet... Blizzard's making and storytelling made them stand apart from their similar races in other games. In the end, not many games can claim intelligent orcs that can go and care about diplomacy, can they?

    So I disagree on all your points.

    Also, to add, you pointed some victories the Alliance had that were not pointed in-game or that were turned later in the game. For example, Fenris Keep... as a low level forsaken you go there and lay waste to it. And some assaults of the Alliance are meaningless, for example Mosh'natal Rapart.... we don't win, we just go there and die and by the end of the Horde questchain, the tables are turned.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    Then why the fuck do we have an expansion about crapdaren? Their presence there was the single least lore changing event in Warcraft history if you discount the fact that Anduin Lothar had constipation at some point in his life.
    ElvenArcher, is that you?

  19. #159
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Everyone did in that low-poly era.
    Plus, when he was talking, it seemed his jaw was about to drop off at any time.

  20. #160
    If Alleria returns she'll be the biggest badass the Alliance ever had. She was an extremist anti-Horde, and when she returns to find her sister (Sylvanas) part of the Horde and her entire people (High Elves of Quel'Thalas) turned Horde, she'll turn batshit crazy and annihilate them all. She hasn't seen her homeland since Warcraft 2, imagine returning to find the shit that she's going to find.

    At least that's what would happen if Metzen hadn't become the total pussy he is today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pachycrocuta View Post
    ElvenArcher, is that you?
    If elvenarcher is an anti-pandaren person on these forums, newsflash: he's not the only one, we're millions. Stop trying to sound like you're an army of people who think pandaren are great and we're just a handful of people disliking their lore, it's pathetic.

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