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  1. #201
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    To quote Abraham Lincoln, "You can please some of the people all of the time, and LOOK OUT VAMPIRE!"

    What I think he was trying to say, is that it's impossible to make a game (or anything else, for that matter) that 100% of the people find perfectly to their liking. Honestly, I think Mists did a good job of making most people pretty happy. In ToT, at least, hardcore players found a significant challenge. H Lei Shen has a four freaking percent completion rate, and 5.4 is live next week! Meanwhile average to bad players (such as myself) have normal, LFR, and shortly Flex Raiding to give us some measure of progress. Add scenarios, pet battles, Sunsong Ranch, and different ways to spike your reputation, and you have a lot to work with. But including all that content that the most tunnel-vision hardcore player would rather chew their arm off than play didn't ruin their fun, because they still have content that basically only they will see and work towards.

    So, short answer, no. Just because there's a lot of content for casuals doesn't mean anyone else's magically vanishes.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Honestly, I think Mists did a good job of making most people pretty happy.
    Do y-you... do you play the same game we're playing? Were you not there for the quarterly reports?

  3. #203
    This was discussed to death and again, Now you are asking?

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    Sup everyone so ive been playing WoW since about the start of BC and I know back then it was harder trying to clear content and the game in itself was a lot harder since there was no LFR or group find for anything plus you had to flyout to the actual instance. So basically if you werent in a hard core raiding guild you werent going to see any content. Ive seen a lot of posts on other forums talking about how WoW has been dumbed down to the point where its unplayable now and everyone is blaming the casual player for this. My question is how exactly did the casual "ruin" WoW?
    It's not casuals that ruined WoW. It's whiny kids who call themselves "casual" while they're really just bads. I was casual in vanilla, never joined a guild or stepped into a raid, but I had a great time. There was great casual content in the form of 5-mans, exploration and gold making, which lasted me for the whole time since I was an actual casual that logged in occasionally. Instead of someone that plays every night, still fails to get anywhere, and just calls himself "casual" because that sounds better than "bad". I didn't have a problem with other people doing raids since I had plenty of other things to do every time I logged in.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by DrSteveBrule View Post
    Do y-you... do you play the same game we're playing? Were you not there for the quarterly reports?
    Being happy and being $15 happy with plenty of F2P options available are two entirely different things. People do not like paying if there is free alternative, that's why pirate servers exist.

    Also if your happiness as a player (not shareholder) depends on the quarterly reports you might be in need of professional help.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  6. #206
    I dont think anyone ruined WoW. I just think a game that has been out this long and with its low graphics, has done a pretty amazing job at surviving this long as an MMO that still does subs of more than 1million.

    No one likes change. Thats all there is to it.

    Casuals and Hardcore can moan and complain all they like because if they didnt moan, I would be seriously worried.

    The only thing that is going to ruin WoW is time and how they deal with more and more content being added ( removing content will just really piss people off but something has to be done to the stuff that hardly gets used)

  7. #207
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    I just don't get it. What is ruined? You still have hard bosses, you still have a difficulty setting that under 1200 guilds have cracked.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  8. #208
    Another thread mis-defining the word casual. The word you are looking for is bads. Casual != bads. I knew casual players whose skill far exceeded that of hardcore raiders.
    WoW PvP; Where DPS are healers, tanks are DPS, and healers are tanks!

    RETH RETH RETH!

  9. #209
    casuals didn't ruin wow, blizzard did by trying to hard to make a game that's easy and hard and everything in between
    and they failed miserably. now they blame the players for everything and are in milk-mode

  10. #210
    No.

    /thread
    Static - US Arthas | Currently 13/13 HM | Art by ElyPop

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Baalb View Post
    If anything, casual players are the major reason WoW still exists. How did they ruin WoW? They didn't, most players are not even participating in forums, or even reading patch notes, there is of course a vocal minority of casuals here and there and there are of course the "hardcore" players, most of which take active participation in forums on different WoW related websites. If anything, the "hardcore" voice is much more taken into consideration, because of the fact it is mostly the only voice heard on the forums, so in reality who did ruin WoW?
    I rarely see highranked hardcore players but mostly wannabe scrubs with very little progress who want to keep their few heroic peices to themselves being the loudest.

  12. #212
    Casuals did not ruin WoW.

    Casuals never cared about epics, or wearing stuff, the actual casual took months to even finish farming his heroic dungeons therefor he was happy with what he had because the term casual is for those that do not have the time to play.

    WoW was ruined by "bads" which took on the word casual and abused its power.

    There are many people that play 10 hours per day and achieve nothing simply because they were uninformed, not bothering to research and learn to be better.

    Blizzard catered to them since they were the majority and kept shouting "Casual, casual" and here we are, simply because they couldnt achieve what others could while the others put less effort into the game.

    Its the same way everyone calls hardcore gamers "no lifers", the average real hardcore raider in WoW, will raid 100-200 hours the first couple of weeks then simply clear everything in a 3-4 hours because thats how they are, while most of the people whining would require 500 hours over a course of months to do the same.
    Last edited by potis; 2013-09-04 at 02:27 PM.

  13. #213
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSteveBrule View Post
    Do y-you... do you play the same game we're playing? Were you not there for the quarterly reports?
    If it's the shrinking subs you are referring to, one could argue that, in spite of WoW being a nearly 10 year old game, it still managed to hold onto over 80% of its players this year. I consider that rather remarkable.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzlee View Post
    if this game still had the tbc model i think the subs would be even lower to be honest.

    so casuals are prob saving this game
    Mcdonalds food is probably amongst the higher earning type of restaurants. That doesn't make the food good or tasty. A tiny 2-3 person local restaurant could actually and does actually server better and tastier food.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwysh View Post
    Hardcores destroyed wow with their pre-cata crying.

    Three significant things caused mass uproar in the true majority of players.

    1. The clusterfuck that was the early cata heroics. After wow's peak in wotlk with easy mode heroics the absurd jump to the cata difficulty pit a lot of people off.

    2. The changes to healing, though needed drove off a lot of people who loved that aspect of the game.

    3. The gating of vp gear in MoP, I personally know quite a few people who quit or refused to resub due this.

    Extra credit answer: the game is aging, the player base is aging, there are not a lot of new young players buying and sticking with wow.
    The counter-argument would be that softcores destroyed wow in wotlk

    The faceroll that was early wotlk heroics. You could faceroll your keyboard for 10 minutes and still win!
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  15. #215
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    Mcdonalds food is probably amongst the higher earning type of restaurants. That doesn't make the food good or tasty. A tiny 2-3 person local restaurant could actually and does actually server better and tastier food.
    So what exactly does this have to do with WoW? All you are doing creating a strawman (McDonalds) and then assuming that WoW is unto gaming as McD's is unto restaurants without offering kind of evidence to support this analogy.

    There are many differences between McDonalds and WoW:

    For example: Some of the key competitive edges of McDonalds:
    Cheap food - WoW is not cheap, in fact it is one of the most expensive to play.
    They are fast - WoW takes it time to produce content.

    The restaurant and gaming industries are very different. While I would agree that being the most popular does not always equate with being the best, you cannot claim that being the most popular equates with being the worst.

    At best your McDonald's analogy serves to illustrate that WoW's popularity may or may not have anything to do with the quality of their product.

  16. #216
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    qq'ers come closer to ruining WoW than anything else.
    exactly. and there are more casual players that QQ they want what the elite players have hence casual players control blizzard's decisions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post

    They are fast - WoW takes it time to produce content.


    WUT? French fry burger. That must have taken tons of development time and funding!!!!





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  17. #217
    I think catering to the lowest common denominator is the main reason WoW is in the state it is in.

    When was the last time you were happy about a blue item? Everything has to be epic, because epic is the best gear outside of a few legendary items (even those were readily handed out this expansion).

    The issue with WoW is that the core values of the game have been either lost and become muddied or simply streamlined so much that it's not fun anymore.


    The last time I tried to level any character, I got sick of it by level 23. Back in the day I'd have had ~12-15 skills to use, this time around I had maybe 4 to use regularly that weren't just buffs.

    Talents did the rest for that. And the Warlock rework which basically made the class I enjoyed a dumb faceroller *sigh*

  18. #218
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    WUT? French fry burger. That must have taken tons of development time and funding!!!!
    The point I was making was to highlight the differences between McD's and WoW, hence illustrating why the analogy made by the previous poster fails.

    A big part of the reason that McD's are so successful in spite of offering a lower quality product to their customers is that they make their product faster and cheaper than their competitors. The customer doesn't have to wait for his burger, and it doesn't cost him a lot.

    WoW on the other hand makes it's customers wait a very long time for new content. The fact that people do in fact wait for the new content instead of losing interest, and pay monthly subs, is, if anything, an indication that the product quality is good.

  19. #219
    Mormolyce is back to troll some more peeps.
    (Regarding DS LFR -> 5.0 LFR)
    The loss of the ability to pass on loot is the loss of the ability to choose. This is communism.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    So what exactly does this have to do with WoW? All you are doing creating a strawman (McDonalds) and then assuming that WoW is unto gaming as McD's is unto restaurants without offering kind of evidence to support this analogy.

    There are many differences between McDonalds and WoW:

    For example: Some of the key competitive edges of McDonalds:
    Cheap food - WoW is not cheap, in fact it is one of the most expensive to play.
    They are fast - WoW takes it time to produce content.

    The restaurant and gaming industries are very different. While I would agree that being the most popular does not always equate with being the best, you cannot claim that being the most popular equates with being the worst.

    At best your McDonald's analogy serves to illustrate that WoW's popularity may or may not have anything to do with the quality of their product.
    The analogy was to demonstrate that sales does not necessarily represent quality.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

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