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  1. #21
    Yeah, casuals ruined WoW by having the UNMITIGATED GALL to make their spending decisions for themselves, rather than for their hardcore "betters".

    How selfish of them, to not do things for the royalty of the game. You'd almost think they had a right to their own happiness. Incredible.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    Sup everyone so ive been playing WoW since about the start of BC and I know back then it was harder trying to clear content and the game in itself was a lot harder since there was no LFR or group find for anything plus you had to flyout to the actual instance. So basically if you werent in a hard core raiding guild you werent going to see any content. Ive seen a lot of posts on other forums talking about how WoW has been dumbed down to the point where its unplayable now and everyone is blaming the casual player for this. My question is how exactly did the casual "ruin" WoW?
    Ugh, your post hurt my brain meat. When did flying have anything to do with hardcore raiding?

    That part over, I don't think WoW has gotten any easier at all, outside of leveling. The end game stuff is just as hard as ever but when you have a playerbase that has been in it as long as a lot of these people have, they tend to adjust better than someone who just started raiding for the first time ever. Also, there's a million different places to find strats on fights, and videos posted online from every perspective, that just weren't really there before.

    In short, I don't think WoW has gotten easier; I think the players, as a whole, have gotten better.

  3. #23
    Warchief miffy23's Avatar
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    No another one of these....close inc ~~
    This community is so toxic it's hard to take.

  4. #24
    Hardcores destroyed wow with their pre-cata crying.

    Three significant things caused mass uproar in the true majority of players.

    1. The clusterfuck that was the early cata heroics. After wow's peak in wotlk with easy mode heroics the absurd jump to the cata difficulty pit a lot of people off.

    2. The changes to healing, though needed drove off a lot of people who loved that aspect of the game.

    3. The gating of vp gear in MoP, I personally know quite a few people who quit or refused to resub due this.

    Extra credit answer: the game is aging, the player base is aging, there are not a lot of new young players buying and sticking with wow.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Iseeyou View Post
    Blizzard did ruin wow , not the players nor the community.
    Dude, that's just so wrong.

  6. #26
    It's weird how casuals can still be the target of these threads even though the forums seems to have shifted to a more casual preference.
    People suddenly want their alts to instantly catch up to their mains in terms of gear and reputation, they seem to want the legendary cloak questline to be account-wide
    Some even want to go back to the 4.3 recipe of making 2-3 new dungeons give more or less pre-raid BiS combined with Justice items better than anything in t14 content.
    'Cause ya know, HoT dungeons and DS as the only PvE endgame was such a success.

    Funny how quickly things change.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2013-09-03 at 04:48 PM.
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  7. #27
    High Overlord Stackodude1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    Sup everyone so ive been playing WoW since about the start of BC and I know back then it was harder trying to clear content and the game in itself was a lot harder since there was no LFR or group find for anything plus you had to flyout to the actual instance. So basically if you werent in a hard core raiding guild you werent going to see any content. Ive seen a lot of posts on other forums talking about how WoW has been dumbed down to the point where its unplayable now and everyone is blaming the casual player for this. My question is how exactly did the casual "ruin" WoW?
    Saying a specific type of player ruined WoW is ignorant. The game is aging, you can't expect it to be as fun and great as it was when you were first starting to play.

  8. #28
    Investors ruined the game. No one wants to buy stock in a company that doesn't make money.

  9. #29
    Riddle me this.

    I've been playing since the end of Vanilla/ very beginning of TBC. There were a few extended leaves of absence in there, the longest being nearly 2 years.

    I have 1 max level character. I've raided in some pretty decent guilds in my time, and I saw a good deal of the endgame content when it was relevant. I did research on the fights, asked questions and advice of people who knew more than me, and did the best I could to improve. But I didn't theorycraft, didn't do any of the math or number crunching (I hates math, precious), and really only played for a few hours a day at most, usually during raid times.

    So do I qualify as casual, or hardcore? This is a question that needs to be asked, in a general sense...what defines those two labels?

    If I'm casual, then am I one of those who ruined the game? All I ask is to get online, have fun with my guild and my friends, and to see the lore unfold in front of me. To see the stuff I wouldn't normally be able to see.

    If I'm hardcore, then shouldn't I try harder? Get into Hmodes and such? Theorycraft, make new mods, spend hours and hours a day to gain a 1k DPS increase?

    I don't think a single group of people (I'm being very general here) can be blamed for the entirety of the game's issues.
    ~*The Light does not abandon its champions.*~

  10. #30
    Imo Blizzard catered too much to wanna-be hardcore, and result is disastrous. Alts' factory for the demand of top guilds to make alts faster? Disbalanced leveling with tons of cosmetic stuff? Too much accent on raids at a cost of the game? 3-room dungeons so wanna-be hardcores could get their pre-raid gear with maximum efficiency?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwysh View Post
    3. The gating of vp gear in MoP, I personally know quite a few people who quit or refused to resub due this.
    They will "fix" it by no VP gear in 5.4.

  11. #31
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    People have been whining about casuals since tbc i don't know why people are so up in arms suddenly in mop 0o You can only listen to so many "QQ x, y or z killed wow QQ" before you want to punch them in the face :S
    Last edited by Frozenbeef; 2013-09-03 at 05:04 PM.

  12. #32
    90% of the players here are ppl who want to sitt in Ogri and not moving a ich and doing all the stuff in a short time and complaing about casuals..LOL pathetic ppl.

    You even realise what WoW was so good in Vanlilla+tbc? = time consuming =good mmo's. Wotlk was only good due of the Lore Arthas and Ulduar. Do you ppl also realise why the world in WoW is dead now atm?

    Do you also know ''Do not fix whats not broken''?

  13. #33
    without the casuals there would be no wow. They are the majority of the playerbase and they pay their moonies.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    No another one of these....close inc ~~
    This community is so toxic it's hard to take.
    You must be new to the internet, because I can name at least 10 games off the top of my head with a worse community than WoW.
    “First keep the peace within yourself, then you can also bring peace to others.”
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  15. #35
    Warchief miffy23's Avatar
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    Oh no, I've been around =)
    I was active in Counterstrike when it was literally like taking an acid bath to browse the forums for that scene.

    But the MMO-C WoW crowd is pretty hard to take sometimes, there's so much nonsensical ranting, failed reading comprehension, and just the trolling and baiting good grief.
    But yeah at least it's not people threatening each other like 12 year olds like in LoL.

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    The only people casuals ruined wow for were bad players that raided 5 nights a week for 4 hours a night and still couldn't progress very well, while "casuals" raiding 3 nights a week for 3 hours a night walked them in progression on account of being better skilled. Back in BC, as they attest, their little club had a whole lot of meaningless busy work hoops to jump through before a "filthy casual" could set foot in "their" raiding content so they yearn for the days when competition only consisted of other players with an equal amount of disposable time as them to dedicate to pve, regardless of skill.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    It's weird how casuals can still be the target of these threads even though the forums seems to have shifted to a more casual preference.
    Agree, most of the hardcore players quit long ago.

    As for the topic: It depends? I think the game has far too much solo content now; I'm not really sure if you can say the content was added to appease casual players but I think the game has suffered when devs decided to put in brawlers guild, proving grounds, emphasis on dailies etc at the expense of things that I think they *should* be doing in an MMO to encourage group activity and help foster community: world events, zone events, support for group/world pvp, group questing, an LFR-like queueing system for quests you can do as a group, etc.

    "Ruin" is a strong word. "Changed" is more appropriate. You can tell the game changed when Blizzard decided to put in an "easy" difficulty level like LFR and then yet another difficulty level below normal mode with flex raiding.

  18. #38
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    No one knows what 'casual' means or alternately ten different people will have ten different definitions.

    By the same logic 'ruined' isn't very well defined either. There's a very long list of things that has ruined the game going all the way back to elimination of 40-man raids and well before that.

    Flying out to an instance isn't hardcore. It's not even gameplay by some definitions.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    If something takes more time, it is by definition, harder.
    No. Filling a glass full of water is easy. Filling a keg full of water is just as easy, it just takes longer. "Longer" is neither synonymous with nor semantically similar to "harder".

    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    This community is so toxic it's hard to take.
    Unfortunately, it's getting progressively worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Untangled View Post
    You must be new to the internet, because I can name at least 10 games off the top of my head with a worse community than WoW.
    While that may be true, how does that take away from what he/she said? #boggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    "Ruin" is a strong word. "Changed" is more appropriate. You can tell the game changed when Blizzard decided to put in an "easy" difficulty level like LFR and then yet another difficulty level below normal mode with flex raiding.
    I'd take it a step further and call it "Improved". Self-proclaimed "hardcore" people can whine and moan about the game being "dumbed down" all they want, but the fact of the matter is Blizzard will do whatever keeps their profits up. Personally, I prefer my subscription fees going towards making the GAME more FUN, not making it require even more of my time.
    Last edited by StormFX; 2013-09-03 at 06:04 PM.

  20. #40
    This is a debate that neither side can win. The catering to casuals has ruined some aspects of the game for me and others, that being said, it definitely improved other aspects. I believe that the introduction of LFD and the scaling back of heroic dungeon difficulty during Wrath is an example of something ruined by it, to players like me. I actually enjoyed running heroics in BC and helping people do the 5 man strath quests (before the option to 10 man them was removed) even long after I out geared them. A mistake could still get you killed and even while outgearing them by several tiers you could still notice tangible improvement. Now heroics are a zergfest and you almost have to try to wipe. LFD and LFR also destroyed a large sense of community and accountability on servers. I also enjoyed Epics being difficult to get. When you were new and inspected someone and saw all that purple it gave you something to work forward to. Now the color on gear might as well not exist. Blues are super common, greens are only good for leveling , and purple is the standard.

    Things like needing reagents and weapon skills are examples of stuff that got changed for casuals that greatly improved the game. Also the longer buff timers and group buffs for everything (although I do dislike that it is impossible for one paladin to buff 2 different people with different buffs), removed a lot of monotony which is great.

    As far as lockpicking goes, I would rather it be like it used to be where it took time and commitment. It wasn't mandatory yet provided a bonus (in terms of tips or skipping key quests). I like the idea of commitment to something providing a reward.

    Overall it is a mixed bag, but for me personally weighing the positive and negative aspects of casualisation I would say it has made things worse, but ruined is to far.

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