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  1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Well I have not played for over 2 months, still get those moments whether or not to resub but I beat it down trying to ween myself off WoW (still come here to see what is what lol).. Main reasons I stopped were the inane gear grind no sooner do you get fully kitted out than you have to do it all over again when a new major patch comes was fun for many years started playing in classic..

    But well just got bored with it all got to the point where I could not stand even queuing for a scenarios/dungeons/LFR, And the capping of valor points got tiresome..

    But the main tipping point was when I took a month off to get some zeal into playing back when one of the guildies gave me a load of abuse because I took time off (the guild I was in is a casual type guild) and so was hoping to get back into raiding when I got back (they did have a vacant spot at that time and they did know I was taking a break) but in the end I thought this was a good time to give this game a long break..

    Even patch 5.4 though sounds interesting I am not coming back at least not anytime soon..
    Yep, I'm the same. I got incredibly bored of the gear grind a year ago and only came back recently because I wanted to kill Garrosh. I don't see myself sticking around after that as I'm already starting to get sick of trudging through scenarios, then heroics, then LFR tiers.. etc. Not only that but my server is practically dead so it's impossible to find anyone to raid with until virtual realms comes in.

    WoW is in a pretty dreary state right now even though I like a lot of the new changes. There's just not enough people playing anymore.

  2. #1002
    Just because some forum posters understand basic economics better than you doesn't mean they're blindly parroting what Blizzard says. Maybe they're trying to educate you... Ever thought of that?
    I'm fine with economics, thanks. But i don't agree that a better accessibility to raids or the FFA modes doesn't changed anything in terms of success. Sure, WoW had its peak in WotLK. Not a surprise, because at this point, blizzard started aggressive advertising that include TV Spots etc. to claim people that doesn't played a mmo before. So it's not a wonder that subscriptions were going up. The game dropped down to 7.7m atm, even with so much things that are easy to claim, QoL improvements, DF, LFR and so on. What's the reason for that? The age? The rivalry with other games? The mmo market is full of bs games. So where they are going? The audience is getting older? Maybe. But, there are new potencial customers growing up.

    Don't get me wrong. I said earlier in this thread, that i don't agree that casuals ruined the game. Blizzard had made too many changes, that the majority of content isn't special nor really enternaining. Back in the days it was weird to have 5 - 6 alts. Today it's weird not to have so many. And that's one of the things that are watered down.

    I don't know how to explain better. I agree that content for 5% of the playerbase isn't really efficient. But i don't believe that it was a gamebreaker.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    I'm fine with economics, thanks. But i don't agree that a better accessibility to raids or the FFA modes doesn't changed anything in terms of success. Sure, WoW had its peak in WotLK. Not a surprise, because at this point, blizzard started aggressive advertising that include TV Spots etc. to claim people that doesn't played a mmo before. So it's not a wonder that subscriptions were going up. The game dropped down to 7.7m atm, even with so much things that are easy to claim, QoL improvements, DF, LFR and so on. What's the reason for that? The age? The rivalry with other games? The mmo market is full of bs games. So where they are going? The audience is getting older? Maybe. But, there are new potencial customers growing up.

    Don't get me wrong. I said earlier in this thread, that i don't agree that casuals ruined the game. Blizzard had made too many changes, that the majority of content isn't special nor really enternaining. Back in the days it was weird to have 5 - 6 alts. Today it's weird not to have so many. And that's one of the things that are watered down.

    I don't know how to explain better. I agree that content for 5% of the playerbase isn't really efficient. But i don't believe that it was a gamebreaker.
    I suspect people aren't playing anymore for the same reasons I quit a while ago: the gear treadmill just gets terribly boring after a while. Before I quit I remember hating the thought of going into another dungeon to try and upgrade gear, it was just so boring. There's also a lot of good MMO's on the market now, like GW2 (which is free). The WoW endgame goals haven't changed since vanilla, if anything it's gotten harder to gather some gear.

    But yeah, LFR has nothing to do with the dropping subscribers. People don't quit out of protest, they quit because they get bored.

  4. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotharion View Post
    Yep, I'm the same. I got incredibly bored of the gear grind a year ago and only came back recently because I wanted to kill Garrosh. I don't see myself sticking around after that as I'm already starting to get sick of trudging through scenarios, then heroics, then LFR tiers.. etc. Not only that but my server is practically dead so it's impossible to find anyone to raid with until virtual realms comes in.

    WoW is in a pretty dreary state right now even though I like a lot of the new changes. There's just not enough people playing anymore.
    If I do come back will be long after the last LFR section is open, and since Flex is following the same path as LFR in terms of wing opening (I think) I will wait till then.. But yeah totally agree the game is just not the same anymore.. Been playing for 8 or whatever years not sure now I think was about 6 months before the release of TBC and used to play everyday (I have a lot of spare time) lol.. Anyways yeah I find other things too do now and they don't cost me $15 a month to play lol..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotharion View Post
    I suspect people aren't playing anymore for the same reasons I quit a while ago: the gear treadmill just gets terribly boring after a while. Before I quit I remember hating the thought of going into another dungeon to try and upgrade gear, it was just so boring. There's also a lot of good MMO's on the market now, like GW2 (which is free). The WoW endgame goals haven't changed since vanilla, if anything it's gotten harder to gather some gear.

    But yeah, LFR has nothing to do with the dropping subscribers. People don't quit out of protest, they quit because they get bored.
    Agree 100% the constant gearing after awhile just wears thin especially if been playing ever since vanilla.. The expac I loved the most apart from TBC was WoTLK just something about WoTLK that made it great for me.. But yeah in the end just yeah (heck I have free to play Rift and I hardly play that)..

  5. #1005
    I quit a while ago: the gear treadmill just gets terribly boring after a while.
    Thats why i quit too.

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    It IS the casual players though despite what you might think. When casual players are given a taste of hardcore content, they start thinking they're better than they actually are. This leads to a sense of entitlement and eventually the outpouring of toxicity that we hear nowadays. True hardcore players (not even world firsters, just hard mode raiders and even most normal mode raiders in this day and age where the vast majority are in LFR, people who run challenge modes, gladiators etc.) generally don't give two shits about their dungeon runs and just do their strokes and be done with it if they ever even do things outside of their own guild/groups.
    Hardcore content? 5 mans are hardcore content? LOL.

    I used to run with SimpleiLevel. The biggest whiners are always the ones with the best gear. There will be whining about how the tank is fail, the healer is fail, or the DPS is fail and god forbid if someone makes a mistake and the group wipes as the prima dona drama queens will explode in indignation, flaming people left and right. THIS IS THE TOXIC COMMUNITY I'M TALKING ABOUT!

    Apparently being new to/"bad" at a video game is now a crime! No wonder WoW is losing players, shitheads like you are scaring all the newcomers away! A welcoming environment this isn't, I can tell ya that! Seriously, get over yourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Agree 100% the constant gearing after awhile just wears thin especially if been playing ever since vanilla.. The expac I loved the most apart from TBC was WoTLK just something about WoTLK that made it great for me.. But yeah in the end just yeah (heck I have free to play Rift and I hardly play that)..
    Ya, nothing but raids and gear get boring after awhile.

    This is why people started saying WoW isn't much of an RPG anymore - no, not going to debate you on this point - as there is nothing else but gear and means of getting gear. It's more like a themed slot machine.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-09-10 at 11:51 AM.

  7. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    I see parroting phrases from blizzard employees that let the people think the game was totally crap until WotLK.
    I don't need phrases from Blizzard employees to analyse dynamics in a sector I'm familiar with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    The success of this "crap" is showing the opposite...
    Success despite a huge rate of churn is only half a success. If WoW was more accessible from day one, there is no way to tell how it would go. But most players quitting before level 10 and the remainder having no access to end-game content, is not the optimal model. Better than the competitors (which is why it took off), but still perfectible.

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    The only thing time consuming about LFR is the queue time which is, for a lot of people, time lost and wasted. It's another reason why putting LFR aside and leaving it to those who want to do it is the best thing and to try to get one's self into a guild for the more organized and social form of raiding.
    To be fair, if you're sitting in queue and not doing something else, however trivial, to advance your character, then you have no business complaining about anything in this game being too much of a grind.

    /not you specifically, of course

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Then why did all those pseudo-hardcore MMOs all failed?
    I'm not sure how this question is relevant to anything I said.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
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  9. #1009
    ... takes out popcorn and sitting comfortly to watch this ...

  10. #1010
    Success despite a huge rate of churn is only half a success. If WoW was more accessible from day one, there is no way to tell how it would go. But most players quitting before level 10 and the remainder having no access to end-game content, is not the optimal model. Better than the competitors (which is why it took off), but still perfectible.
    You think less people quit before maxlevel today? I don't think so. Subs are still dropping, even with all convenience options that are implemented. The entry barrier is still the same like before to get in the game, except some stupid descisions like making mobs in the starting zones neutral.

  11. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    The game dropped down to 7.7m atm, even with so much things that are easy to claim, QoL improvements, DF, LFR and so on. What's the reason for that? The age? The rivalry with other games? The mmo market is full of bs games. So where they are going?
    The main reasons are: the age, the competition from F2P games (yes, they are mostly crap, and yes they can cost you more than a sub, but people are stupid this way), and the fact that early MOP and Cata failed to interest casual players for obvious reasons. Add to that the general fact that Cata old world revamp ate too many resources that would be otherwise spent on endgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    The audience is getting older? Maybe. But, there are new potencial customers growing up.
    New generation gamers aren't interested in MMOs which require you to commit to a single game. They play mobile games and Facebook games. Or MOBAs/shooters. MMO is somewhere there down the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    I don't know how to explain better. I agree that content for 5% of the playerbase isn't really efficient. But i don't believe that it was a gamebreaker.
    No, it's "finance breaker". BC raiding model was hideously inefficient from a financial PoV. Which is why they changed it for LK.

  12. #1012
    The current state of wow is what you "90%" casual crowd wished for and begged blizz for all these years. And yes its dry and dying. Hope you're happy with it.
    The casuals and here i mean the "carebears" that get offended if someone criticizes their play in any way, the people that cba to learn the class and the game altogether and lots of other issues, the ones that whined years after years to blizzard "blizzz gaem 2 hard, we want epics and legendaries to rain from the sky while i afk", the people that foolishly believe easier access to content means "growth", the people that can't understand how mandatory challenge is in any kind of game.
    I'm glad I played in the times when everything wasn't dumbed down and thrown in your face, when I couldn't see all the content so easily but that pushed me more to get better at the game to reach that.
    The point where the train derailed must have been wotlk because I really can't remember in tbc tons of people complaining about the game. Most people where too busy playing it and enjoying what they wanted. Tons of guilds only managed to clear Kara and that was enough and quite the amazing experience in itself. Nobody felt like, hey, am bad, lazy but I'm entitled to faceroll the end game raids because "I have a life blizz, i have 10 children crying for food so I can play only 30 mins per week please tailor the game for meh" spam posts.

  13. #1013
    Quote Originally Posted by Lotharion View Post
    I suspect people aren't playing anymore for the same reasons I quit a while ago: the gear treadmill just gets terribly boring after a while. Before I quit I remember hating the thought of going into another dungeon to try and upgrade gear, it was just so boring. There's also a lot of good MMO's on the market now, like GW2 (which is free). The WoW endgame goals haven't changed since vanilla, if anything it's gotten harder to gather some gear.

    But yeah, LFR has nothing to do with the dropping subscribers. People don't quit out of protest, they quit because they get bored.
    Agreed completely. Granted, I'm more of a PvP person, but it's still the same principle. I'm tired of gear being a constant constraint to my fun.

  14. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    The entry barrier is still the same like before to get in the game, except some stupid descisions like making mobs in the starting zones neutral.
    It was not a stupid decision, because prior to that, a lot of people quitted before lvl 10. I remember the Tauren starting zone in vanilla and I understand how it made some players run away, especially when playing weaker classes.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post

    And nobody claims the game was crap before WLK, it was good at the time. But what the game was back then is not good enough today.
    Exactly this.

    The game would've been dead by now if we hadn't got any crossrealm functionalities and sticked to the TBC model. You can't stop servers from emptying out after all.

  16. #1016
    I have played since release and I fail to see how the game is ruined? It is still the best mmorpg on the marked. Soon 9 years old.

  17. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    Agreed completely. Granted, I'm more of a PvP person, but it's still the same principle. I'm tired of gear being a constant constraint to my fun.
    Same. I liked S11 because i could get competitive gear without having to join RBGs or arena teams. Placing too many restrictions on how people play the game makes them frustrated and bored. Raiders are actually the cause of these restrictions.

  18. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    The current state of wow is what you "90%" casual crowd wished for and begged blizz for all these years. And yes its dry and dying.
    Because early MOP was anything but casual time-wise , which - surprise - made casual players run away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    The casuals and here i mean the "carebears" that get offended if someone criticizes their play in any way, the people that cba to learn the class and the game altogether and lots of other issues
    Yeah, because in BC, everyone did that. Which is why I ran into strength-gemming mages in BC... oh wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    I'm glad I played in the times when everything wasn't dumbed down and thrown in your face, when I couldn't see all the content so easily but that pushed me more to get better at the game to reach that.
    Yet BC was simpler to play for me than MOP. Healing? Hurr, 2 buttons (both single-target) and I'm good, whoop-de-doo. Now I have a lot more tools to play with. Talk about dumbed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    The point where the train derailed must have been wotlk because I really can't remember in tbc tons of people complaining about the game. Most people where too busy playing it and enjoying what they wanted. Tons of guilds only managed to clear Kara and that was enough and quite the amazing experience in itself.
    Which is why you had guild poaching and associated drama all over the place. Clearly it's because people enjoyed raiding only Kara /sarcasm

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimble View Post
    This. The wannabes talk way, way, way more shit about "bads" and such than actual hardcore elite types do.
    Indeed.

    And these wannabes are actually the ones who want to remove content from other players because of their entitlement issues and think the game should be catered to them and them alone.

  20. #1020
    Dunno on what private servers you played but people did enjoy raiding only Kara because that was the best they could manage until the 3.0 nerfs.

    I won't even bother responding to the previous points because they are plain stupid. If healing was easy to you back then you must have only run normal dungeons and bgs.
    From a tanking point of view, tbc was the most challenging period for me. Back when you actually had to pay attention to threat and not smash your face on the keyboard and boom all mobs/bosses stick to you until the end of time.

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