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  1. #1301
    Dreadlord Turbotef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baatun View Post
    Blizzard ruined the Game because they casualised the Game until it was unplayable. They removed every complex part and that removed alot of fun. And all these Retard-Finder things were the deathblow to the Game. Right now you can level solo from 1-90 no problem. You don't have to communicate with a another person.
    And the worst part is that this were all unneeded changes. Casuals had enough to do in TBC and most of them liked TBC way more than Casualysm and Pandaland.
    I don't even know where to begin with this post, seriously! You are wrong, period!

  2. #1302
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    Sup everyone so ive been playing WoW since about the start of BC and I know back then it was harder trying to clear content and the game in itself was a lot harder since there was no LFR or group find for anything plus you had to flyout to the actual instance. So basically if you werent in a hard core raiding guild you werent going to see any content. Ive seen a lot of posts on other forums talking about how WoW has been dumbed down to the point where its unplayable now and everyone is blaming the casual player for this. My question is how exactly did the casual "ruin" WoW?
    Yes, they spent years whining on the forums about how it takes too much time for raiding, and how they don't get shiny purples in the half hour they can play a day. So blizzard just keeps dumbing everything down so you can get boa epics by killing two mobs on Timeless Isle and other such things. LFR destroyed the game more than anything else, half the raid is afk while the other half is screaming at each other.

  3. #1303
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    Casual players didn't ruin the game, entitled casual players did in concert with Blizzard's pandering to them.

  4. #1304
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baatun View Post
    Blizzard ruined the Game because they casualised the Game until it was unplayable. They removed every complex part and that removed alot of fun.
    Yes, Heroic LK, Ragnaros and Lei shen were certainly not complex. Which is why those silly world first guilds considered it far more challenging than BC bosses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baatun View Post
    And all these Retard-Finder things were the deathblow to the Game.
    No, dear non-expert, early Cata and early MOP were. LFR in 4.3 actually stalled the sub loss for quite a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baatun View Post
    Right now you can level solo from 1-90 no problem. You don't have to communicate with a another person.
    You could do that in Vanilla and BC. I levelled my first toon like that - grinding mobs and a bit of quests. Never spoken to anyone. That was vanilla btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baatun View Post
    Casuals had enough to do in TBC and most of them liked TBC way more than Casualysm and Pandaland.
    Nope they didn't. Which is why they were massively living. The detail is that there were more of them joining than leaving. A lot didn't even make it to lvl 10, not to mention max level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    Casual players didn't ruin the game, entitled casual players did in concert with Blizzard's pandering to them.
    Yeah, how do customers dare interacting with the company they're paying! They just shut up and pay like in ye olde feudal days.

  5. #1305
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Yes, Heroic LK, Ragnaros and Lei shen were certainly not complex. Which is why those silly world first guilds considered it far more challenging than BC bosses.


    No, dear non-expert, early Cata and early MOP were. LFR in 4.3 actually stalled the sub loss for quite a while.


    You could do that in Vanilla and BC. I levelled my first toon like that - grinding mobs and a bit of quests. Never spoken to anyone. That was vanilla btw.


    Nope they didn't. Which is why they were massively living. The detail is that there were more of them joining than leaving. A lot didn't even make it to lvl 10, not to mention max level.

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    Yeah, how do customers dare interacting with the company they're paying! They just shut up and pay like in ye olde feudal days.
    No one's forcing you to play the game. Play it the way it was intended or gtfo basically. Don't demand nerfs that affect everybody because you are not capable of rising to the challenge.

  6. #1306
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    No one's forcing you to play the game. Play it the way it was intended or gtfo basically.
    That's the message the wannabe hardcores whining on this forum are apparently not getting. Could you repeat it for them please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    Don't demand nerfs that affect everybody because you are not capable of rising to the challenge.
    There is no challenge in having hours upon hours to waste. And vanilla (and to lesser extent BC) was about that - who has the more time, not who is the most skillful.

  7. #1307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    That's the message the wannabe hardcores whining on this forum are apparently not getting. Could you repeat it for them please?


    There is no challenge in having hours upon hours to waste. And vanilla (and to lesser extent BC) was about that - who has the more time, not who is the most skillful.
    Actually the game favors those who have a lot of time on their hands now more so than ever before. Here's why:

    1. 4 raid modes of which you can only do 1 if you so desire, but more time gives you the ability to do all 4 and thus have an edge over others
    2. daily quest hubs, a lot of them and their respective quests give valor points and those can be used to purchase even more stuff
    3. easy 5 mans that those who have a lot of time at their disposal can spam to their heart's content and again get an edge over someone who cannot spend as much time

    Were it skill based we'd have a single mode of difficulty with commensurate rewards and more time spent would not matter, because if you could beat it you would reap the rewards. Now you can just "spend a lot of time" getting enough valor to gear yourself up. Or welfare epics from LFR.

  8. #1308
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    How about this? Instead of three tiers of raids over the course of a year you would get somewhere in the neighborhood of nearly 30 additional dungeons: normal, heroic, something in the difficulty neighborhood of a CM dungeon and something with scalable technology like flex that will run from 3-10 players. Planned to be released sequentially one new dungeon every two weeks with story arcs across sets of dungeons, etc. Alternate weeks would feature a new scenario in both normal/heroic difficulties that would also scale from 3-10 players or even more I suppose. The scenarios would support the story arcs in the dungeons as well as telling additional stories. That would be the instanced content.

    It took me exactly two minutes to come up with that idea. I'm sure Blizzard--if they desired to--could think of even better ideas. Something like that would probably take a lot of the sting out of not having raids around for those who don't partake in normal/heroic raiding.

    Not that Blizzard would ever do this because raids are a signature thing about WoW. But that sort of MMO expansion design--which Blizzard is entirely capable of doing--would have some legs.

    Something like that would tend to engage people, especially 'casual' players (whatever they are), in a way they might not be now.How many MMO's of different types are talking about releasing content on a bi-weekly or monthly basis? This model of content release--even if not specifically my idea--is the next big thing.


    I like dungeons and I can tell you do too, but having *a lot* of dungeons wouldn't work for a lot of reasons. People would just get sick of running them, with raiding the zone is simply much larger and with only being able to do it once a week, it has a lot more longevity. Beyond that, having just one type of content makes it hard to balance, even if you have a lot of different modes. For example, a lot of newer guys complained about cata heroic dungeons despite the fact that they could just run normal, likewise here, heroics would have to be nerfed to be pretty easy or otherwise people would get upset. The next step from there is they clear all the dungeons too fast and people get bored with the content.

    I know a lot will hate to here this, but if WoW lost raiding the game would lose subs, plain and simple. Even from non-raiders, because they wouldn't have any sort of next level to get to. That's what has happened in other MMO's, if there's no depth to the end game content, there's not much of a reason to level. Sure, you could make an alt, but at that point, why level that if you'll have the same problem your main has?

  9. #1309
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    No, dear non-expert, early Cata and early MOP were. LFR in 4.3 actually stalled the sub loss for quite a while.
    I would consider the free expansion, mount, faction change, server transfer, and D3 game a far more realistic reason for the stall.

  10. #1310
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    casuals are what pay for the games development, maintenance, and any improvements. for the so-called hard-core gamers, you should be thanking the casual crowd, as without them you wouldn't have a game to play, or people to lord your 'vast superiority' over.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

  11. #1311
    The only difference between now and vanilla is that "60" became "90" (and it takes slightly less time). It was never the case that one couldn't solo to level cap with "no problem".
    Have fun as a Drood in Vanilla when you're solo. And use your fucking brain, WoW-Scrub - its about not being able to group even if you want to. There is no Groupcontent while leveling at all.
    WoW is just dead for Non-Casualscrub players - there is no challenge at all, all classes are the same and the only timesink are casualfeatures like companion-pets, mounts and this terrible "retexture" feature.

  12. #1312
    Quote Originally Posted by Baatun View Post
    Have fun as a Drood in Vanilla when you're solo. And use your fucking brain, WoW-Scrub - its about not being able to group even if you want to. There is no Groupcontent while leveling at all.
    WoW is just dead for Non-Casualscrub players - there is no challenge at all, all classes are the same and the only timesink are casualfeatures like companion-pets, mounts and this terrible "retexture" feature.


    This pretty much. I think people on here forget that WoW is *meant* to be a social game, one in which you make friends and tackle obstacles, but they changed and nerfed it so much it lost a lot of that in the process. Leveling now you pretty much never group up for anything, whereas prior you'd engage with a lot of people and make friends in the process. Once you hit 90 you're pretty much grouped up with random strangers you'll never see again too. Now to that end, they are definitely making anti-social guys happy, but I'd contend WoW really isn't the right game for them in the first place. In the process though they make the game a LOT more boring for people who actually did enjoy the original format.

  13. #1313
    Coordinating with 40 people for 4 nights a week to progression raid is not a viable lifestyle for 95% of WoW's population. It was an unsustainable model.

    And with almost 10 years of WoW content, its natural that older content gets deprecated -- it happened every expansion, now it happens almost every patch cycle. It removes the barrier to players returning, knowing they can 'catch up' to their guild in a reasonable amount of time.

    As someone who remembers farm raids in TBC era, just to replace retiring progression raiders, it was painful.

    There's opportunities for Blizzard to tune the end game model further, but its better now than what it was.

  14. #1314
    To think that casuals ruined wow is a complete joke. Without them, this game would have 1 Mil subs. Ive played since later Vanilla, and everything blizzard is doing seems appropriate for the time. LFR, Flex, etc. I dont have alot of time to dedicate to this game anymore, so I have become a casual when I was once hardcore.

  15. #1315
    Quote Originally Posted by Baatun View Post
    Have fun as a Drood in Vanilla when you're solo. And use your fucking brain, WoW-Scrub - its about not being able to group even if you want to. There is no Groupcontent while leveling at all.
    WoW is just dead for Non-Casualscrub players - there is no challenge at all, all classes are the same and the only timesink are casualfeatures like companion-pets, mounts and this terrible "retexture" feature.
    You should teach Blizzard a lesson and quit to go play that amazing super-hardcore MMO that is rolling in millions of subscribers.

    Oh wait, that game doesn't exist. It will never exist. You are irrelevant.

    How does that feel? Does it give you tears? May I have them to polish my welfare epics?

  16. #1316
    Quote Originally Posted by TomFord View Post
    To think that casuals ruined wow is a complete joke. Without them, this game would have 1 Mil subs. Ive played since later Vanilla, and everything blizzard is doing seems appropriate for the time. LFR, Flex, etc. I dont have alot of time to dedicate to this game anymore, so I have become a casual when I was once hardcore.
    But blizz implements stuff like LFR and flex and the game subs drop. Why? To cater to a certain demograph that many will agree probably don't like MMO's in the first place. Perhaps if they focused their MMO on people that enjoy playing that type of game.... the subs would go up once again?

  17. #1317
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    the game in itself was a lot harder since there was no LFR or group find for anything plus you had to flyout to the actual instance.
    Yes, using a fp was "hard".

    You have no idea of the difference between difficulty and annoyance.

  18. #1318
    its only certain casuals who ruined it. it cant be them complaining about raiding. only the real raiders state real problems and thats what blizz listens too. pvp on the other hand...those arena whiners never stop screaming.

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    But blizz implements stuff like LFR and flex and the game subs drop. Why? To cater to a certain demograph that many will agree probably don't like MMO's in the first place. Perhaps if they focused their MMO on people that enjoy playing that type of game.... the subs would go up once again?
    Because the game is going on ten years old. I keep pointing out that pretty much every single MMO in fucking history has started losing subscribers at around the six or seven year mark, and people like you keep trying to ignore it so that you can cling to your dipshit fantasy that Blizzard will someday regret throwing you under a bus.

    Spoiler: It's never going to fucking happen.

  20. #1320
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimble View Post
    Because the game is going on ten years old. I keep pointing out that pretty much every single MMO in fucking history has started losing subscribers at around the six or seven year mark, and people like you keep trying to ignore it so that you can cling to your dipshit fantasy that Blizzard will someday regret throwing you under a bus.

    Spoiler: It's never going to fucking happen.

    The "old game is old" argument I don't think really works, considering blizzard always re-invents stuff and is releasing content every 4 to 6 months. IMO the problem is they aren't hooking in new players because the experience is pretty boring. Is it a more casual experience? Yes, but it's also kind of a forgetful one at the same time. As for blizz "regretting throwing their fans under the bus" I guess we'll wait and see. They may regret it at the next quarterly results meeting where they find out they lost more subs perhaps?

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