The scrubby casuals did ruin it, yes.
The scrubby casuals did ruin it, yes.
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What I set out was really a different game. However, I think it's a model for content that would be more attractive than you imagine. You and I will just agree to disagree on how many people in the game are standing outside the fancy restaurant of raiding wishing to get in. I don't think it's quite as many as you believe and in any case the owners of the restaurant for some mysterious reason aren't really terribly interested in having them inside in any case even though there's plenty of room for them. It's not difficult to imagine that a constant weekly or bi-weekly flow of new content would cause many people to decide they weren't really that interested to start with and they would move on to other things with little in the way of regrets.
Setting a game up this way makes sense in any case. Raiding as it now exists proposes that staying in the same raid for weeks at a time, doing it once with possible numerous failures, and then doing it all over again but harder is a more attractive idea to most people than taking whatever is new this week or fortnight (two weeks), consuming it and then moving on to the next bit a week or two later. I think that's a hard sell. And many game design studios are beginning to agree. Smaller, more frequent content updates are the order of the day and into the future for MMO's.
But just to be very clear, I don't really know how I feel about that. I'm more traditional than you might imagine in that respect. That said, forums should be interesting places to propose radical ideas, examine them, turn them inside out and discuss them. The plain fact that forums are also full of rage, immaturity and stupidity isn't helpful but I prefer it to blogging since the response if any is more immediate.
Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-09-15 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Cleaned up some ambiguous language
The cake is now an alternative fact.
To me the elimination of daily quest hubs is a huge mistake. 5.3 was the most boring patch ever because there were no dailies and hence, no reason to log in every day. The weekly quest was also horrendous and the rewards, other than the Hydra pet, useless. 5.4 is better with more to do but it could also use a series of dailies. They are ruining what was a very good and fun expansion with this "experiment".
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson
People still argue whether or not the general difficulty is appropriate or not but nerfs in the sense that was all the thing during WotLK and Cataclysm T11/T12 are, as a practical thing, not done any longer.
The cake is now an alternative fact.
With a shorter, but more challenging format, it gives the bosses more depth, making it feel like you are in a raid, but at the same time it's not as overwhelming as you don't need to learn the mechanics for 14 different bosses (and not saying it has to be the first 7 bosses of the raid either). LFR doesn't have much communication, but IMO that's just because there's no need for it. I don't think that means that there's no way communication will never happen, if the opportunity presents itself, a lot of players would probably surprise themselves. And wipes will likely happen for some groups, but wipes have always been a massive portion of raiding, most of the time you're in a raid you will likely wipe more than you actually kill a boss. Just my thoughts on the topic, but I think it would improve a lot of different aspects of LFR and wouldn't really cost any more development or resources (it may save cash in fact lol).
Back to your point,
I definitely do think newer 5 mans should be released. ZA and ZG were only a massive disaster only because they were out for SOOOO long and they were the only progression if you couldn't raid. Those first few weeks of those 2 places tho IMO, those were some of the most fun in 5 mans I've personally ever had. If they planned it out a bit and were smart about it, I'd concede that something with more 5 mans could be viable.
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I'd call some of it whining lol, not trying to sound mean here either, but look at something like the Emperor Shao grind for example. People are complaining about it being a hard grind, despite the fact that it offers almost nothing but vanity items like a mount and a pet, and many have asked for it to be nerfed, despite the fact that they can ignore it entirely and they would be missing nothing in doing so.
BTW how do you multi quote a single post? I.e. sentence by sentence?
Last edited by Santoryu; 2013-09-15 at 06:29 PM.
2) Every single MMO in the fucking world declines after 6 or 7 years at most.
3) Every single MMO in the fucking world has dipshits who want to tell you that the "real" reason for this decline is because of some stupid imaginary design problem.
4) These imaginary design problems are never really the same between different games, yet somehow they always magically crop up at around the exact same 6 or 7 year mark every time.
So let me get this straight, Rick, you're telling me that games don't really age, that the product life-cycle doesn't really exist, and that every MMO developer so far just happened to make awful (yet unique) mistakes at the six year mark by sheer coincidence? That's kind of a fucking extraordinary claim, don't you think? That's the sort of claim that takes a lot more to front than just "DERR SUBS WENT DOWN AND I BLAME THAT THING I DON'T LIKE" from a minority of forum slobs.
How many potential new WoW players do you think exist? Infinite? How long do you think they all play? Forever? Tell me, oh guru, when do YOU think a game begins to just get old and lose players? Never? Every single game would grow to infinity if only every single MMO designer stopped fucking it up?IMO the problem is they aren't hooking in new players because the experience is pretty boring. Is it a more casual experience?
No, they won't. They will sit at their meeting and count their lost subscribers and never give hardcore dipshits crying on the forums a fucking thought because there just aren't enough of them to matter either way.Yes, but it's also kind of a forgetful one at the same time. As for blizz "regretting throwing their fans under the bus" I guess we'll wait and see. They may regret it at the next quarterly results meeting where they find out they lost more subs perhaps?
Shit, hardcores can't even stink up the forums properly. Every time one of them makes a "remove LFR" post on the WoW General it gets instantly downvoted into oblivion. Yeah woo, way to show the blues that real trendsetting hardcore power.
Last edited by Grimble; 2013-09-15 at 06:32 PM.
There is only ONE problem: 10 = 25 decision.... this and just this...
I can't understand how people can support the 10 = 25 paradigm.....
Those 10man guilds are so fragile, versatile, it leads to a guild jumpers community and angry, bored people...
It's just a " pug, friend and family format ". When a server have no 25 man guilds anymore, it's dead, even if you have like 50 10mGuilds.
Raid feeling = Max people = 25 (and no, lfr isn't)
GC : We try very hard not to monkey around with things just for the sake of changing, but it's easy to play the "I didn't see feedback on X, therefore there wasn't feedback on X" card.
The ultimate feminist move, liberating all the women from the penis, will be EXCISION.
1. I don't think every single MMO releases content and addresses issues in the game in the same manner that WoW does. And the game re-invents itself and the playstyle in a way that is dramatically different than other mmo's.
2. How do you come across this 6 to 7 year number?
3. Do you agree that every MMO has dipshits that will say the game is declining because it's old?
Man you really like that six year number, but I don't think there's some sort of guarantee that every MMO will die after six years like you're suggesting, for the reason that, well, it's six years old.
As for new wow players, we don't know the number but considering that as some people no longer play wow after a few years because of jobs, other games, or a lot of other reasons, the game should be bringing in new players. The problem I think is, the game had many things that would interest a new player originally, but a lot of that stuff has been taken out of the game and replaced with IMO, stuff that won't keep new players around for long (LFR) - in the process I think it's causing new guys to not stay subbed long.
The Wow forums are over populated by dumb asses, I don't take much of that place seriously lol. It's pretty much guys that are bitter because they never got invited to raids back in vanilla and BC. There are a few decent posters there though. And most of my posts never get downvoted, I bring out those elitists that you probably dislike and they voice their approval of my posts many times over lol.
On the talk of hardcore are the hardcore fans who generally make a lot of fuss particularly in terms of generating negative public PR like those of Cata who took the game very seriously while preaching that they are the casuals and all casuals should think like them. These players felt like they was thrown under the bus. Some of these players came back to MoP thinking that Blizzard listened to them only to now think that Blizzard wasnt catering to them at all and just the hardcore. So which is it, are these players still thrown under the bus and just fooled by their own biased hatred or did Blizzard really cater to those who felt like they was thrown under the bus?
Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-09-15 at 07:09 PM.
I'm a Forsaken. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.
WOTLK was by no means the best, particularly because it showed everybody unequivocally that if people complain enough, blizzard will cave in. They flat out demonstrated they have no backbone when it comes to their design philosophy. It let people know that they do not need to improve their playing skills in order to overcome a challenge because in time that challenge will simply disappear.