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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    I re-read it and I stand by my statement.



    WoW is a fucking GAME!!! I don't know how else to put it. Foregoing mastery of a computer game in order to devote more time to mastering real-world skills that yield real-world rewards is not being lazy or entitled. Nor is it indicative of poor character. I have yet to experience a job interview where I would even feel comfortable bringing up my Heroic LK or DW kills. If anything it would reflect poorly on me because the hundreds (thousands?) of hours I spent mastering my WoW skills could have been better spent improving skills relevant to my job. If anything, your definition of casual is the opposite of lazy and entitled. Those people who devote every waking moment of the day memorizing raid strats, parsing their WoL logs, and practicing their rotations are the fortunate few. Of those few, the ones who expect everyone else to do likewise are the most lazy and entitled. Why? Because WoW is a GAME!!!

    Looking down on others because they don't have the luxury to play as much as you would like them to is completely ridiculous.


    That's another way of phrasing it, but it pretty much sums up the point I was making.

    You are right to work for more substantial things in real life that will probably last longer than the things in WoW. But if a player can't be arsed to put enough effort into the game they havent earned the right to anything despite what they pay to play for the game. You wouldnt want a selfplaying Super Mario Bros right? What you're dead wrong in is that the people who look into parses, strategies and similar things are lazy. Its a hobby they take very serious. Most are managing a reallife on top of that very sucessefully.

    The only casuals that are ruining it for wow economically is the ones who play for a month or two and then unsub after a few lfr/normal clears until the next tier. There's a shitload of thoose. Blizzard wants people to sub regularly which is why the lfr/normalmode crowd probably brings in the most money since they are the biggest in numbers. It's probably also the reason to why blizzard wants to put out content in a higher pace - to make sure as few people as possible unsub inbetween tiers.

  2. #322

  3. #323
    Epic! Lime's Avatar
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    Ruined WoW? Lol no.
    Took away some features I liked, yeah, but it's still great.

    Big thanks to Yoni for making this Avatar and Signature!

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Most of these arguments should be viewed within the context of the game itself. Was vanilla more casual than EQ / AC / etc? Absolutely. Is it more casual now than it was when it was released? Absolutely.
    This is correct, but likewise, the subs were on a constant increase through Wrath. It may not seem like Vanilla was casual by today's standards, but at the time, it was. And despite being comparatively casual, it drew people in masses. It continued to get more casual and continued to draw people in. It was a selling point then, and is a selling point now. It's not a flaw. People wanted a more accessible game. They don't necessarily want everything handed to them, but they want content accessible.

    Point being, WoW got to a record breaking number of subscribers not by being hardcore, but by being casual. There is no reason to believe that it was the cause of the eventual decrease in subs.

  5. #325
    LOL at this thread again.

    I used to be hardcore, world first contestant in vanilla and bc, but now you know, that was 10 years ago, when i was about 14. Now i have a life, a girlfriend to take care of, higher education. So yup, i'm casual now, i cannot find time to raid at all, i like the effort of flex but it solves nothing for me personally.

    tldr dont feel entitled because you have too much time on your hands. Your 15 bucks is worth the same as mine.

  6. #326
    Hardcore and casual are styles of play, not demographics. Let's stop the whole hardcore vs. casual debate. The underlying issue is that the game lacks exclusive hardcore content for people that want a challenge. People are tired of Blizzard slapping a difficulty modifier on something and calling it content. It's not content and Blizzard is not fooling anyone. Lastly, if you like the casual style better, that's fine, but don't try to bring others down when they want more hardcore content. That's just being selfish.

  7. #327
    Pandaren Monk twistedsista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    Sup. My question is how exactly did the casual "ruin" WoW?
    no, what ruined wow was people opening sentences with "sup".

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsius View Post

    The only casuals that are ruining it for wow economically is the ones who play for a month or two and then unsub after a few lfr/normal clears until the next tier. There's a shitload of thoose. Blizzard wants people to sub regularly which is why the lfr/normalmode crowd probably brings in the most money since they are the biggest in numbers. It's probably also the reason to why blizzard wants to put out content in a higher pace - to make sure as few people as possible unsub inbetween tiers.
    how about you fuck off you little entitled elitist jerk? I unsub after one month when a new patch launches nowadays. Why? Saw the content they made and i like the fact that others can enjoy it more if they want to but i don't have the fucking time anymore.

    elsewhise there is NOTHING that keeps me playing the game. MoP is one big grind, maybe timeless isle prooves interesting but i can't see me playing that for over 1 month without knowing everything on there.

    tldr mop is boring as fuck and i don't have enough time to invest to make it interesting. I'm sure it's interesting for a lot of players (normal/heroic raiders) but that's what they choose to do. Stop blaming us, more casually approached people. It's just a game.

    Infracted: Please do not insult other posters. Thank you. [ML]
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-09-05 at 08:45 PM.

  9. #329
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantelija View Post
    Cataclysm and MoP are less casual than Wotlk and previous expansions? Is this a joke? Random casuals in LFR were killing Deathwing with ease on the same week he got released and you think that is less casual than gated ICC and other things in Wotlk ?
    That is because you conveniently consider the most casual-friendly patch in Cata. But what about early Cata with 2 hour heroics and no LFR? Or early MOP with the huge amount of dailies to be done for rep?

    Compared to those WOTLK was more accessible.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  10. #330
    Yes, I became casual and saw myself become the villain.

  11. #331
    I love how people keep going on about Vanilla/TBC being hard, yet when you look at vids from so called "hard" content back then you realise how bad people were. We've gotten some great fights over the last expansions and personally I've enjoyed ToT a shitload. I'm pretty sure that if Blizzard would've kept things Vanilla style we would have seen even lower sub numbers today, nostalgia is a subjective matter, objectively on the other hand, very few people would agree that vanilla generally > MoP.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyd View Post
    I love how people keep going on about Vanilla/TBC being hard, yet when you look at vids from so called "hard" content back then you realise how bad people were. We've gotten some great fights over the last expansions and personally I've enjoyed ToT a shitload. I'm pretty sure that if Blizzard would've kept things Vanilla style we would have seen even lower sub numbers today, nostalgia is a subjective matter, objectively on the other hand, very few people would agree that vanilla generally > MoP.
    Vanilla was only bad because there was no variety. If that type of raiding existed today and all the features that were included with the expansions were introduced, it would be a different story.

  13. #333
    Bloodsail Admiral Magellanmini's Avatar
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    So it's true then, you either die hardcore or live long enough to see yourself become the casual.

    I'd love Blizz to throw in what D and D does excellently in that it has several difficulty modes catered to people who like a challenge or those who simply want to clear a dungeon ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Draenei View Post
    This sound like similar problem I faced on Exodar. You should consult O'ros. O'ros know best for you. Female is tricky subject.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    Lets talk about what other game companies in other genre's do. Maybe that might be a good indication of what is wrong.

    Shooters for an example - everyone is on the same playing field, things are not made easier for casuals.
    Every shooter has a selectable difficulty of easy-normal-hard when you start playing it, some have even 4th or 5th option. That "easy" is the made for casuals option. You can't be so blind or obtuse to not see that.


    Quote Originally Posted by championknight View Post
    And yes, most elites can be soloed even Vanilla, bar 5 man required ones. Matter of knowing how, you are just one of the players who never tried
    It depends more on class than lack of trying. Classes that can tank (with pet or by themselves) have always been in advantage when it comes to soloing content from vanilla to MoP. That's why tanks were the first classes to be able to solo dungeon bosses.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    It depends more on class than lack of trying. Classes that can tank (with pet or by themselves) have always been in advantage when it comes to soloing content from vanilla to MoP. That's why tanks were the first classes to be able to solo dungeon bosses.
    Not sure if you were playing the same game but...

    - Rogues soloed Hearthglen much easier than any of the other classes, careful use of Stealth is necessary

    - Warriors are severely limited in their soloing due to rage mechanics and lack of self healing, Feral Druids are also affected but less so due to mana issues

    - A SPriest has an easy time soloing elites with heal on damage and MC in some situations

    - Warlock Blueberries are crap at tanking in Vanilla even on normal mobs

    Of course, this didn't stop players of all classes trying and some of them succeeding and teaching others how to do it, which IMO should be the way the game is learnt instead of being babied by Blizzard all the way

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    That is because you conveniently consider the most casual-friendly patch in Cata. But what about early Cata with 2 hour heroics and no LFR? Or early MOP with the huge amount of dailies to be done for rep?

    Compared to those WOTLK was more accessible.
    If you are going to throw in two hour heroics then I will throw in players complaints of waiting multiple hours just to fill a group on top of having to fly to the dungeon and run it which took at least half an hour to an hour or more and having to find replacement players being a pain in the ass resulting in more downtime or a disbanded group. The troubles of having to replace a player was often enough to force groups to work together with the group they had. Then there was heroic lockouts set to a day along with the VP equivalent reward rate of only running dungeons in WotLK being significantly lower than that of a player who full cleared both 10 and 25 man raids along with running a daily heroic and a weekly raid boss compared to Cata which equalized the gaps and vastly increased the rewards from running heroics.

    So pick your poison.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-09-05 at 08:53 AM.

  17. #337
    I hate casual guilds. Wiping endlessly to the same boss because your raid team is trash is a giant waste of time. I'm currently looking for a new guild and I'm going to shoot myself if I get another guild that says they are semi-casual. Like, no youre not semi casual or semi hardcore. Youre casual, you don't care that your raider is causing you to waste hours of your life every week and the only reason they are in the raid is because they are your friend or you have an e-crush on them.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddyv View Post
    I hate casual guilds. Wiping endlessly to the same boss because your raid team is trash is a giant waste of time. I'm currently looking for a new guild and I'm going to shoot myself if I get another guild that says they are semi-casual. Like, no youre not semi casual or semi hardcore. Youre casual, you don't care that your raider is causing you to waste hours of your life every week and the only reason they are in the raid is because they are your friend or you have an e-crush on them.
    Just because a guild is casual does not automatically imply it's full of bad players.

    Whilst the frequency of poor casual players is probably higher than hardcore, almost by definition, there's still a LOT of casual players who are good enough not to endlessly wipe.

    My guild in TBC was "casual" yet it killed everything pre Sunwell Plateu pre-nerf, it's all about finding a group of competent players and a leader who knows what he's doing

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    How many hours did your parents spend playing video games? How about the guys who busted their butts building the house/apartment in which you live? How many hours a day do you think they spend playing?
    They spent about the same amount of time watching TV instead, what's your point?

    I wish I had 12 hours a day to devote to playing WoW. Unfortunately I have a family to feed and a mortgage to pay off. I guess I'll just have to remain "lazy and entitled" because my "poor character" compels me to prioritize shelter and family over a computer game.
    That's utter nonsense. My guild raided 2-3 nights per week since TBC and cleared most of the content in the game (including hardmodes). We had doctors and surgeons with families, we had people working on their M.Sc.s etc. It's a hobby like any other, you don't need 12 hours per day, if you can schedule 2-3 nights per week, it's enough time-wise. Your problem is not that you have a family and mortgage, your problem is that you're bad at the game and instead of trying to improve, you cry to Blizzard to give you everything with no effort.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryva View Post
    People who ruin WoW: "Give me stuff or I will cancel my sub!!!"
    If someone isn't engaged enough with the game to keep paying for it, that's the fault of the game designers. A consumer's right to dictate what does and does not satisfy them is inalienable.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

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