Wargaming and TCG...advice for absolute noobs?

[Rooflesstoofless]

There is a place around the corner from me that does various TCGs (like Magic) and wargaming like 40K and Warmachine.

I have never played a TCG or wargame before although I do watch miniwargaming channel on youtube from time to time. I was going to go check the place out for the first time today and just wondering if there is any advice my fellow MMO-C members could give to an absolute beginner? Any certain questions I should ask?

[Poopymonster]

On 40K: Ask about using proxy models or playing Papercraft (Using bits of paper with marks to signify models). That will save you a ton of money while you decide if you want to sink that much money into it.

[Schmeebs]

On 40K: Ask about using proxy models or playing Papercraft (Using bits of paper with marks to signify models). That will save you a ton of money while you decide if you want to sink that much money into it.

I would say a better Idea is ask when they have a 40k League night, there might be players there with an extra army, sometimes the shop will even have a house army you can use.

Half the fun of the hobby (Or more depending on the person) is the models themselves. papercraft won't do justice.

[Stir]

A lot of gameshops have armies and decks for people trying out the game. If they don't, you could ask people playing there if you can play along; they might allow you to use one of their decks and/or armies while they explain the game to you.

In the case of TCGs, it's always pretty easy to learn. War games can be difficult, but if you start out playing one or two squads against your opponent (who also uses one or two squads), it should be easy enough to learn the basics.

So yeah; ask your shopkeeper if they've got decks/miniatures for the purposes of game demos. Customers may also wish to help you out.

[Deleted]

I would say a better Idea is ask when they have a 40k League night, there might be players there with an extra army, sometimes the shop will even have a house army you can use.

Half the fun of the hobby (Or more depending on the person) is the models themselves. papercraft won't do justice.

This ^

Many places have house armies that they use for newer players.

That said as much as i used to love 40k it is stupidly expensive these days.

[Deleted]

I am a big 40k fan but would never recommend it to a beginner, collect the models if you enjoy painting them and you enjoy the lore, but collecting an army and learning to play is hugely expensive and time consuming.

[Stir]

That said as much as i used to love 40k it is stupidly expensive these days.

Though not by far as expensive as... Any TCG. Trading Card Games make you keep buying stupidly expensive cards... Models might be expensive, but once you've bought them, you don't need to keep buying in order to stay competitive (plus the best cards are simply more expensive than the best models). In addition, models actually give you a hobby. Converting, painting... All that stuff.

But it's probably best (in my opinion, anyway) to play a game like Mordheim, or Warmachine. Fun games, great models and small armies, which allows you to diversify more, build more specialized armies for less money.

Also: 40K just isn't what it used to be... Too much plastic (great for nids and orcs, because you want to convert them like crazy; not so great for the other armies unless you're really creative... It's just too expensive when you compare what you're getting).
And, of course, the Sisters don't have their own codex. -_-

[Deleted]

Though not by far as expensive as... Any TCG. Trading Card Games make you keep buying stupidly expensive cards... Models might be expensive, but once you've bought them, you don't need to keep buying in order to stay competitive (plus the best cards are simply more expensive than the best models). In addition, models actually give you a hobby. Converting, painting... All that stuff.

But it's probably best (in my opinion, anyway) to play a game like Mordheim, or Warmachine. Fun games, great models and small armies, which allows you to diversify more, build more specialized armies for less money.

Also: 40K just isn't what it used to be... Too much plastic (great for nids and orcs, because you want to convert them like crazy; not so great for the other armies unless you're really creative... It's just too expensive when you compare what you're getting).
And, of course, the Sisters don't have their own codex. -_-

Not how Games workshop does business, they are constantly releasing new models that you need to buy or else your army looks shit and dated, not to mention all the damned rule changes that forces you to change troops and tactics. I started playing during early second edition, they are now on the 6th with multiple updates and new armies being added, you can imagine how expensive it gets to maintain more than 1 army.

This is the reason I no longer play, I am fed up with the stupid changes that can make a good army shit over night.

[Endus]

Rule 1: Determine how much money you're willing to spend on this hobby per month. Set that number in stone. For wargaming, this should be significantly higher than for TCGs, particularly starting out (since you'll need to get an army up and running, and usually painted, so if you need all those materials, you're paying up-front).

Rule 2: Determine how much you'd need to spend to play. If this number is less than what you got in Rule 1, just put your wallet away and find another hobby. Being forever halfway ready to start playing is no fun at all.

Rule 3: Watch a bunch of games first, before playing. It'll give you a better feel for how the game plays and how the rules are used. If you've read the rulebook first, that helps put things in context. You'll also pick up on any local peccadilioes that'll keep you from offending anyone (like if practice at your local club is to declare the end of your turn a certain way, for clarity).

And generally; start smaller rather than bigger, in wargaming. Not only is it easier to get into financially, but there's less going on to juggle in your head.

[Stir]

Not how Games workshop does business, they are constantly releasing new models that you need to buy or else your army looks shit and dated, not to mention all the damned rule changes that forces you to change troops and tactics. I started playing during early second edition, they are now on the 6th with multiple updates and new armies being added, you can imagine how expensive it gets to maintain more than 1 army.

This is the reason I no longer play, I am fed up with the stupid changes that can make a good army shit over night.

I actually quit for the same reason.
Edit: And to be honest, even though Warmachine and Hordes looked pretty awesome, I just... I dunno; lost the miniature gaming spirit thanks for WH FB/40K.

But Warmachine/Hordes is considerably cheaper than Warhammer, simply because the armies are so much smaller.

[Deleted]

I actually quit for the same reason.

My first clue should have been when they decided to fuck over my first army, I used to play Squats.....

[Poopymonster]

Not how Games workshop does business, they are constantly releasing new models that you need to buy or else your army looks shit and dated, not to mention all the damned rule changes that forces you to change troops and tactics. I started playing during early second edition, they are now on the 6th with multiple updates and new armies being added, you can imagine how expensive it gets to maintain more than 1 army.

This is the reason I no longer play, I am fed up with the stupid changes that can make a good army shit over night.

Not only that, if you are playing at an anal retentive place, your model must have the exact weapons/gear on your army list. Which means you need even more models for each variation on your army.

I read someponies figured out you just glue in tiny magnets at certain points and can swap gear in and out with that, which seems a work around.

I love the lore, lack the money, but want to play. I play on a private game forum, die rolling app built into it. Somepony makes the map with terrain, we place our armies, maps are to scale for easy range finding, and you're off.

[Stir]

My first clue should have been when they decided to fuck over my first army, I used to play Squats.....

Yep... They've had lots of 'fun' armies that weren't ever meant to be serious (like the squats; pretty much 40K dwarves)... They were discontinued because they were given the go as a kind of joke thing that could be pumped for money, but people got quite into them. I myself was a huge Sisters of Battle fan, and because I'm not alone in my adoration of the chapter, Games Workshop didn't so much discontinue them as much as they shifted the army into 'joke,' then 'kind of playable with White Dwarf rules' then 'No More Models For You' into 'You can be the Inquisition's Squats, but building a Sister's Army will get you shafted hard!'

Meanwhile the bloody Necrons got promoted to 'Actual Army.' -_-

[Darth Steve]

The biggest things I can say about TCGs (as someone who's played quite a few over the years) are:

1) Make sure there's a community before you spend significant money on a product. I love Decipher's Star Wars CCG, but there's no point in blowing a wad on eBay to get decks when I have no one to play with.

2) Don't buy expensive singles until you've gotten thoroughly entrenched in a set. Currently deep in Magic: The Gathering right now, and because I can, I buy a box of each set, plus a bit more. I won't even think of buying singles until after then for a few reasons - copies in the box, card synergies, cards you might have missed in a spoiler list, etc, but also because of trading. Nothing like getting two Voice of Resurgences in a Dragon's Maze box when it was $50 a pop and trading it out for tons of stuff then buying some copies back when it's dropped low and I've decided on playing Green/White.

[Omnoms]

We've got a WH40k thread on the forums here, feel free to drop by and ask questions. As a person who got into wargaming ~5 years ago, I suggest buying 2 squads of normal soldiers plus a commander of some sorts.

[Rooflesstoofless]

Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate it.

The manager/tactics/rules guy that helped me was pretty cool and laid out pros and cons of each game and genre pretty well (and in line with a lot of what I'm seeing posted here)...even as far as explaining the difference between living card games and trading card games. Even though the store carries Games Workshop products he didn't seem overly thrilled with the company's tactics over the last few years and many players he sees on a regular basis have transitioned over to Warmachine and it was their most popular game by a large margin.

Some of the trading/living card games looked really neat, but after seeing some of the wargaming models in person and being a fan of strategy video games like DoW and Supreme Commander I'm starting to heavily lean in the direction of Warmachine.

[Theinquisition]

40K is very fun, but it can take a long time to learn all the nuisances of the game. The rule book is about 300 pages long.

If you enjoy painting, and have great attention to detail and love a good story, you would love 40k.

you can get a fairly balanced starter set for a reasonable amount of money (100$ usually). The paints, brushes, etc will add up though.

[Deleted]

40K is very fun, but it can take a long time to learn all the nuisances of the game. The rule book is about 300 pages long.

If you enjoy painting, and have great attention to detail and love a good story, you would love 40k.

you can get a fairly balanced starter set for a reasonable amount of money (100$ usually). The paints, brushes, etc will add up though.

This ^

The rules are crazy complicated in that game now.

I do remember playing about 10 years ago and having my plasma cannon guy blow himself up.

[Theinquisition]

This ^

The rules are crazy complicated in that game now.

I do remember playing about 10 years ago and having my plasma cannon guy blow himself up.

Indeed it still can. Roll a one with a plasma gun and you will suffer the "it gets hot" penalty.